Etikettarkiv | flat earth

List of Bible verses that show a flat earth with a firmament

Bible verses showing that the earth is flat and immovable

”Yea, hath God said — ?” (Gen. 3:1)

If we are to be really honest with ourselves, the Bible is a geocentric flat earth book and there is no question about it. If we also add the book of Enoch, the matter is completely settled. This is not proof that the earth is flat, but it is evidence that the Bible teaches it. Let this not be a matter of salvation. It is not a sin to believe that the earth is in the center of God’s creation and that it is immovable, standing on four pillars, has four corners, is likened to a footstool, has a firmament above it containing the stars, the sun and the moon, etc.

footstool

A footstool under God’s feet or a constantly moving BALL?

Some of the verses below are poetic in nature but this does not mean that we can just pretend that they do not hold any type of message to us and are meaningless. They might express the reality in a figurative sense. In the Bible we will find poetry, visions, dreams, parables, analogies, figurative speech, prophesies, psalms, hyperboles, etc, and naturally we must read the text with this in mind. Still, an author would like to express something with this type of text usage and that is often to mirror the reality. It is also important that we do not pick and choose by for example viewing certain verses in the book of Psalms literally when it is suits our own agenda (for example ”in sin did my mother conceive me” by king David in Ps. 51:7), but dismissing other verses in the same book by suggesting ”it’s only poetry so it doesn’t mean anything!” when the message does not fit the same agenda.

For instance, the Bible says that the earth is like a footstool to God, so this is an analogy for us to consider. Do we picture God sitting with a constantly moving and rotating ball under his feet, or do we picture him with his feet on something that really looks like a FOOTSTOOL, like the one in the above picture? A footstool looks like an exact copy of the flat earth model. A footstool is also interesting in the way that it is actually not even needed. A chair (or in God’s case a throne) is higher in importance than a footstool, and it is not even certain that a person in the chair will bother putting up his feet on a footstool. To use a footstool as a picture of the earth is not to show God as an arrogant Majesty who looks down on us with disdain, but to give us some perspective between the Creator and his creation. Compare with his speech to Job, where God’s mighty power is highlighted and his message that Job and his friends were hardly equipped to give the Creator neither advice nor criticism.

Apart from the list below, Christian flat earthers believe that one of the very best argument for a geocentric world picture is the total absence of Bible verses which say something to the effect that the earth is shaped as a ball, constantly moving/rotating, speeding around the sun, is placed in a vast universe with stars and galaxies several trillion miles away, etc.

Many creationists say that it would have been so easy for God to say that a ”day” (Hebrew yom) in the creation account means something else than what we consider a day (but that a day can last millions of years), but God never says this. This is likely due to the fact that a day was, and still is, a normal 24 hour day or else God would have clarified this for us. Similarly, flat earthers believe that if God wanted to reveal a heliocentric model for us, he could easily have explained this to avoid a misunderstanding, but he never does. We are told the exact opposite. Therefore we should have respect for those Christians who believe in the geocentric model, because they are convinced that they get this model straight from the Bible.

BIBLE VERSES (KJV) in chronological order (i. e. Bible order)

1)

Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.—5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.—14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Comment: Based on the Bible’s creation account, we learn that the earth was created before the sun, there was a firmament with water both under it and over it, the sun, moon and the stars were placed IN the firmament (not above) and their purpose was to give light from the perspective of the earth. They were also created to be signs for seasons, days, and years (which for example sun och moon eclipses can offer). Interestingly, when we zoom in on stars through a telescope, they appear as though they are behind a layer of water. The sun and the moon are presented as though they both give light (with no indication that one of them only reflects the other ones light). The greater light was to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night.

2)

Gen.7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen. 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained

Comment: Naturally we are not to assume that real windows were situated in heaven, but something was opened up in heaven and an enormous amount of rain fell on earth. Normally it does not rain for that long, so where did all the water from above come from? It could be explained by openings in the firmament.

3)

Gen. 11:4 They said, “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” 5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.6 The Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.

Comment: A story which would be impossible on a globe but more feasible on a flat earth model with a firmament as the maximum limit, and especially if there were giants around like Goliath who could participate in the construction. Still, to be able to build a tower up to an altitude near a firmament (they did not reach all the way) would mean that the tower would have reached an altitude where eventually moving and even breathing would be hard. God prevented them from building any further, but it seems like he was of the view that they would have succeeded to reach far enough had they continued: nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them”. About the tower of Babel here (Swedish). 

4) 

earth

The paths cause seasons by moving closer to the center and back again

Joshua 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the Lord cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So THE SUN stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.

Comment: The author could easily have said that the earth stood still if that was the case, but it says that the sun and the moon stood still, and that the sun took action by delaying going down (the sun goes down both in the globe model and the flat earth model). If the earth had to make a halt and stopped its rotating and its path across the sun, people on earth would have died. Joshua seemed to have viewed the sun and the moon as a couple that needed to slow down together in order for the project to work. According to the book of Enoch, the moon moves slightly slower than the sun, and it is interesting that the text in Joshua confirms it by two different verbs ”the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, as though the sun indeed made a complete halt while the moon almost did the same thing by slowing down considerably. The rocks thrown by God seem to confirm that his throne is placed rather close right above the vault since the rocks were thrown with such a precision. Had God’s throne been placed billions of light years away out in the universe, the rocks would fall all over the place and not in a certain valley on earth. God is almighty and can perform any miracle he likes? Absolutely, but looking at it that way, God does not need any rocks in the first place but can kill whoever he wants whenever he wants. (The book of Jasher is referred to 2 times in the Bible so it cannot easily be brushed off.)

Some might suggest that God (through Moses) just expressed himself in a way that the people would understand because the Bible is written from their perspective, but how hard would it be to say ”the earth stood still”? They knew what ”earth” and ”still” signified, and this story is a piece of history and not poetry. Can we trust God’s claims or must we make some amendments? According to this story (confirmed in the book of Jasher and in Hab. 3:11) it was the sun and the moon that moved. If we cannot trust that God is able to express himself properly in this story (but that he means something entirely different) what other stories can we not trust because we find them impossible? The story of the cross? Is God the author of confusion? Was he not able to anticipate that honest Christian Bible readers would take him at his word and believe what he says?

5)

Judges 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.

Comment: Stars are viewed as living beings.

6)

1 Sam. 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and HE HATH SET THE WORLD UPON THEM.  

Comment: The oft mentioned pillars are placed as support for the world since the world is placed ON these pillars. Since the earth is elsewhere described as having four corners, it makes sense to place one pillar in each corner. Together with a vault, the outcome looks like a FOOTSTOOL

7)

2 Sam. 22:8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. — 16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Comment: The earth is often described as standing still which is the normality, but king David describes God’s wrath in such a way that the foundations of heaven will move and shake. This sounds like something out of the ordinary, but if the  normality is that the earth always moves and shakes due to the earth’s rotation and high-speed, what would be the difference?

8)

1 Chron. 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. 

Comment: The ideal situation seems to be a stable world that is not moved. In the heliocentric model, the world (and/or the earth) is constantly moving without stop.

9)

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. 8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

Comment: The ordinary scenario for the earth is to stand still (in the flat earth model), but here we can read the description of God’s power that can shake the earth ”out of her place”, and the pillars under it might tremble. If the earth would normally be rotating and travelling faster than a bullet around the sun, it would be illogical to suggest that the pillars under it can tremble and that the earth might be shaken out of its place. We can also read about commanding the sun to not rise, indicating that it is the sun that moves in such a way that it rises (instead of the earth’s movement). Sealing up the stars, might be a description how they are sealed into the firmament.

10)

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven. (”the vault of heaven” – ASV)

Comment: God’s position is just above the vault and since the clouds are right under it, they might also ”cover” him.

11)

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.12 He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud. 

Comment: ”Stretching out the north”, might refer to the whole construction of the pole star in the north and the stretched out firmament surrounding it. ”Hanging the earth upon nothing”? Is this a good description of an earth standing steady on pillars? Well, it is at least a closer description of a flat earth model rather than a globe model with an earth which constantly both rotates and travels at a high-speed around the sun. If you hang something up, like a picture on the wall, you expect it to remain still where it is hanged. You do not expect it to move around on the wall. A flat earth model, shaped as a footstool, could still be described as ”hanging on nothing”. The waters (like the oceans) are apparently compassed with bounds which they cannot transgress, and this might be a reference to Antarctica which is the outer ring on a flat earth model. The pillars of heaven tremble, which might be a reference to the pillars in each corner of the earth which are also connected to the firmament.

12)

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Comment: Apparently the earth has ends, which works well on the flat earth model, but not on the globe model. God can see under the whole heaven, and that is true whether the earth is flat or a globe. If someone is high enough he can also see the whole earth (everything) under him, which could very well be the point that is being made here – in order to describe God’s majesty.

13)

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth. — 18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Comment: The earth has ”ends”, and in the Bible the sky can also be translated ”expanse” as in YLT, where instead of ”molten looking-glass” we can read ”a hard mirror”. It is translated ”a cast metal mirror” in NKJV. This could be referred to the firmament of the sky, which apparently is strong and more or less solid. You can read more about a solid firmament here.

14)

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Comment: A fastened foundation and a corner-stone work better as descriptions for a flat earth model, and especially if it is possible to stretch out a line over it. It is harder to stretch out a line tightly on a ball, if Mount Everest and other mountains must be under this line. If the line is imagined to be stretched out a bit over Mount Everest and around the ball (maintaining the same space between the line and the surface), the measurements of the ball would not be correct. If a line in stretched out over a flat surface, however, the measurements of the surface would be correct even if the line would be placed a bit over the surface.

The stars are again described as living beings, just as much as the sons of God (angels) are, since they can sing. The sea (the oceans) are  described as being shut up with doors (bars and doors). Naturally not real doors, but it could be a description of Antarctica. Especially since we can read: Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed”. A comparison is made with the womb (compare also with Jonah in the womb of the fish in Jon. 2:6), which has its outer bounds as well. It is not a big deal that boats and waves are restricted by large and small land masses (both continents and little islands), but we are reading here about an outer bound which is the maximum outer limit.

The above passage, as well as other passages in the Bible, explain that the earth has bounds, doors, bars, etc. In NASA:s heliocentric globe model the earth does not have any real bounds since you would be able to circumnavigate it in all directions on water and on land without facing any restrictions wherever you go (provided you travel with proper techniques). Not so in the flat earth geocentric model where Antarctica successfully restricts travels horizontally and the vault restricts travels vertically. There is no way for man to find any loop holes through these bounds/bars according to the flat earth model. According to NASA, not even the earth itself can be described as having bounds since it is constantly travelling around the sun in the universe. Neither are people restricted from travelling outside of the globe earth since man can travel to the moon, and based on words from spokespersons from NASA it would also be possible to travel to Mars and other places.

15)

JobJob 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;13 That it might take hold of the ends of the EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?14 It is turned AS A CLAY TO THE SEAL; and they stand as a garment. — 18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, 20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

Comment: Again, we can read about the ends of the earth. We also get the picture of God being able to hold the ends of the earth and shake the wicked out of it. This is easy to imagine if a blanket or a sheet are used, and they have four corners. Like in this verse ”Acts 10: 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth” + Acts 11:5. Turning the earth ”as a clay to seal”, is difficult to imagine on a ball, but works well on a flat surface. In fact, if we do make a seal out of clay, it will turn out like the above which is a good picture of the flat earth model with an outer bound. 

16)

Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

17)

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man TO RUN A RACE.  
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his CIRCUIT unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Comment: If the firmament is nothing more than air or space, it is hard to see why precisely this air would be a glorious example of God’s handiwork. If, however, the firmament is something solid, bright and stretched out over the entire earth then it is easier to understand why this object is used as an example of God’s magnificent creation. We can read about the end of the world, and (just like in the book of Enoch) we can see that the sun has a tabernacle and likened to a bridegroom. This sun runs a race by going forth from the end of heaven and his circuit (a circle) unto the ends of it. This means that it is the sun that does the job around the earth, and not the earth travelling around the sun.

18)

Psalm 74:17 Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.

Comment: What kind of borders are God responsible for having set on earth? According to the Bible, ”borders” are usually used to describe the physical outer borders of nations (or the outer borders of physical objects) and those are normally made by man and can change with time. (Example of usage: Is 60:18, Jer 15:13, Ez. 27:4, Ez. 45:1, Mic. 5:6, Matt. 4:13). When God ”scattered” the people abroad after the incident on Babel, he did not prearrange any new borders for them to dwell within. They arranged this themselves depending on where they settled down. A globe does not really have any other type of borders (apart from the man made ones just described) since man can travel both on land and on sea, and even up to Mount Everest, through the Sahara desert and to the moon and further. Based on Job 38, these borders work as bars and doors, and would restrict man from go any further. Naturally people cross borders of nations every day, so which restricting borders could be referred to in the psalm? In the flat earth model  Antarctic around the earth would work as an outer border which man would absolutely not be able to cross, and the firmament would restrict man from travelling upwards and beyond. The psalm goes on to talk about summer and winter which God has made, which is further support that the author views the borders as something else that God has made and cannot be crossed (Job 38). 

19)

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Comment: The inhabitants of the earth are real, so it is likely that the pillars are real as well.

20)

Psalm 78:23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven

Comment: Windows and doors are viewed as something that can be opened up – and maybe also the firmament is solid and able to have openings which God might choose to open up.

sheet21)

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Comment: The oft mentioned phrase ”cannot be moved” does not work well on a heliocentric model where the globe rotates around its axis about 1675 km/h (approx. 1,000 miles/h) with an orbital velocity around the sun of about 28,000 km/hour. A suitable quote: ”For every second you’re moving almost half a kilometer through space and you don’t even feel it”. With other words; the earth in the heliocentric model is constantly moving and is the opposite of immovable.

22)

Psalm 96:10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it SHALL NOT BE MOVED: he shall judge the people righteously.  

Comment: It shall not be moved. This is often repeated, as though it is important information.

23)

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Comment: If ”heaven” is nothing more than air or space, it is not a good example of impressing things that God can create with his hands.

24)

sun beamPsalm 104:1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:3 Who layeth the BEAMS of his chambers in the WATERS: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth. (NASB: 2:— Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain.)

Comment: A curtain that is stretched out around a ball does not even sound like a curtain.  On a flat earth model, however, the analogy works perfectly. We can read about beams of his chambers in the waters. (If you check the picture above, where does the sun seem to be? Right behind that cloud, producing a beam in the water all the way to the watcher, or billions of light years away?). God apparently laid the foundation of the earth with the aim that it should not be removed for ever. V. 5-9 seems to describe the creation and the division between land and water. We can again read about a boundary for the oceans which could be a reference to Antarctica. ”Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth”. It sounds like the waters were once above the whole earth, including the mountains, since we can read that the bound is there to not again make them cover the earth. 

25)

Psalm 136:6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Comment: Water finds its level, and it cannot bend around a ball. In the beginning God stretched out the earth (the land masses) above the waters. The sun rules by the day, and the moon and stars at night. This is confirmation of the description in Gen. 1 that these heavenly objects are created for the sake of the earth, and to perform their duties from the perspective of the earth. In the heliocentric model the earth is far away from the center and the earth plays no role for the objects in the universe.

26)

Psalm 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

Comment: Stars are not dead objects, but they are alive and have names.

27)

Psalm 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

Comment: When this psalm was written (long after the flood), it appears that waters were still above the heavens.

28)

Prov. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth(ESV —When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.)

Comment: If the heaven is nothing more than air or space, it would not be much to ”prepare”. Drawing a circle on a ball sounds weird and illogical, but drawing a circle on a flat surface is easier to imagine.

flat earth29)

Eccl. 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to HIS PLACE where HE AROSE.

Comment: The sun is the one that performs the job of ”going down” and ”arising”, rather than the earth. The sun (called HE) returns back to the same place as he came from. This description does not fit a globe model.

30)

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Comment: If the earth has four corners and also has ends, it is a good guess that the pillars under it are four in number.

31)

Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. — 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Comment: In the end of days things will change dramatically. Among other things, the moon shall no longer call her (a she) light to shine. The moon has its own light. The heavens will shake and the earth shall be removed out of her place. In a heliocentric model, this happens every day.

32)

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun RETURNED ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Comment: This does not work on a globe model. We can read that it was the sun that returned ten degrees. If the earth would have halted to go backwards, people on earth would have died. A sun halting or going backwards a few degrees would not be harmful in a flat earth model.

33)

tentIsaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Comment: ”Circle” in the above verse is a translation from the Hebrew noun chug (Strong’s 2329) which means circle, vault or horizon.(Note that it is not translated as ball or sphere.) Apart from the above verse, it is found twice more in the Bible. In Job 22:14 we can read about God walking on the circle/vault of heaven (walking on the firmament of heaven), and in Proverbs 8:27 we can read that this circle was inscribed into the face of the deep. NKJV phrases it as ”When He drew a circle on the face of the deep”. It is hard (or rather impossible) to draw a sphere or a globe into something, but it is definitely possible to draw/inscribe a circle into something. While chug is not a translation for ball, there is however a word for ”ball” that Isaiah could have used if this is what he wanted to express, but he did not use it in the above verse. He did, however, use it in Is. 22:18 where ball is a translation from dur (Strong’s 1754). An analogy is used of the heavens stretched out as a curtain and spread out as a TENT to dwell in – for the inhabitants who look like grasshoppers. It is almost impossible to imagine the picture of a tent placed on a globe where all the inhabitants live in. It is a perfect analogy if we imagine a flat earth with a firmament over it, and especially if we also imagine the tabernacle during the Exodus. Read more here.

34)

Isaiah 43:6 I’ll say to the north, ‘Give them up’! and to the south, ‘Don’t keep them back!’ Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth

35)

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Comment: If the heaven is nothing more than air or space, it is nothing impressive about spreading this air out, either alone or with some help.

36)

Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

37)

Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Comment: Again, much ado about the spreading out the heavens with one single hand. If the heaven is only air or space, it is not impressive. If we are including the whole firmament/vault however, it is very impressive and even breathtaking.

38)

Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

Comment: Once again the moon is stated to give light, and once again the sun is stated to cause the movements on earth – here going down.

39)

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and THE EARTH IS MY FOOTSTOOL: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Comment: The earth is God’s footstool. Does it really look like a footstool standing firm on four legs, or does it look like a constantly moving ball?

40)

Ez. 1:22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Comment: The firmament looked like crystal and the strange beings, which the text talks about, were right under this firmament. Ezekiel could still both hear them and see them in his vision. Just above the firmament is where Ezekiel could see the throne and someone who looked like a man upon it.

41)

Ez. 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God.

Comment: Again we can read that the moon has its own light. The stars will be dark, but it does not say that they will therefore cease to be stars. We know from Revelations that stars will eventually fall down unto the earth.

 earth 642)

Dan. 4:10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth —20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.

Comment: A tree in the midst of the earth, high enough to reach heaven and visible to the entire earth? Someone might suggest that this is only a dream and we can even read in v. 22 that the tree was king Belteshazzar, but dreams do not have to be illogical just because they are dreams. It would make more sense for a divine dream to be somewhat logical in order to work as a reasonable comparison with the king. Daniel had several other dreams and visions, and while none of them were therefore ”real” they still made perfect sense.

43)

Dan. 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Comment: Stars are cast down to earth and stamped on. Still, life on earth continues. Even if this is only a dream, it is a confirmation of Jesus own words in the New Testament and the prophesies in Revelations.

44)

Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Comment: Air and/or space will tremble? Or the whole construction with the firmament?

45)

Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Comment: The moon is again claimed to have its own light.

46)

Amos 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.

Comment: Stars can apparently be idols, as though they were people.

side up47)

Amos 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.

Amos 9:6 (NASB)The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth—

Comment: ”The face of the earth” could signify a certain side up, and there are numerous verses which speak about the face of the earth. A troop or a vaulted dome is over the earth.

Moses is said to have spoken to the Lord face to face (Ex. 33:11). The word paniym (Strong’s 6440) which is here translated ”face”, could also be translated ”presence” ”being before someone”, etc, but in. v. 11 Moses emphasizes that he spoke to God ”face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend”. Friends who speak to each other (not counting modern technique) are situated in the same place and they do not speak to each other back to back. If they were sitting down beside each other, they would turn their faces toward each other during their talk, trying to be somewhat ”in front” of the other person. Despite that God and Moses spoke face to face, we can read in v. 20 that it is not possible to see God’s face and remain alive. God said: ”Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live”. God does not contradict himself, but it is possible that God’s face was somehow hidden from Moses when they were speaking opposite each other unless it was a manifestation of the Angel of the Lord. Their positions were still ”in front of” each other since they were speaking face to face (which could be front to front). In v. 23 the problem is resolved by God letting Moses see part of his (God’s) back, rather than his face. ”And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. It is clear that God describes himself (at least in this particular manifestation) as having both a back and a front with a face.

So when we read aboutthe face of the earth”, one particular side of the earth appears to be described. Which one could that be on a ball? There are no sides on a ball. Once again, it is the flat earthers who have no need to change what the Bible says.

48)

Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God. 

Comment: Jonah compares his situation within the bounds of the great fish (the belly), with the bars of the earth – which might be a reference to the restrictions of the vault of the earth and the outer ring.

49)

Hab. 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Comment: The sun and the moon stood still. Can we choose to not believe it because it does not fit a certain model?

50)

Matt. 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Comment: Why the need to take Jesus up to a high mountain, if he would not be able to see more than a small region anyway? In the flat earth model, if he would be taken close to the firmament, he would be able to see the entire earth.

51)

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:—31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

also:

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.  

Comment: Stars will fall on earth, and life will still continue. Every one shall see the son in the clouds, which is easier if the earth was flat. The elect will be collected from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Seems like the heaven starts and ends at certain places.

perspective52)

1 Cor.15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Comment: Again it is hinted that the moon has its own light.

 53)

Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; WANDERING STARS, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever 

Comment: See more here about wandering stars. Planets are not mentioned in the Bible, but stars are mentioned – including wandering stars like Venus.

54)

Rev. 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.—20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 55)

Rev. 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Comment: The stars of heaven will fall on the earth, but the life on earth continues on also after this moment. The process is compared with figs being shaken off a fig tree, and figs land under the tree on a flat surface.

56)

Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Comment: This is part of a prophesy, and since prophesies are real future events it makes sense to believe there will in fact be four angels on a mission which includes standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds. It is true that it is hard to take hold of a wind but we are not told exactly how these winds are being held. Real angels can accomplish real things which human beings cannot do.

57)

Rev. 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. 

Comment: People survived despite of this star landing on earth, and the water did not burn up because of it but became bitter.

58)

Rev. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Comment: A star fell unto the heaven, and apparently the bottomless pit (which some believe to be in Antarctica) remained intact without burning up.

59)

Rev. 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Comment. A third part of the stars of heaven were cast to earth, but life continued on earth also after this moment.

60)

Rev. 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.9 And they went up on the BREADTH of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Comment: ”The nations at the four corners of the earth” could be a way to express ”all nations”,  but this does not exclude the possibility that it is also literally true that the nations are within four corners of the earth – especially if we also add the information that there will be four angels standing at these corners holding the winds of the earth. The word ”breadth” above describes the surface of the earth, and not parts of the earth. The word is a translation from the noun πλάτος/platos (Strong’s 4114) and can be translated as width or broad plain. The corresponding adjective is πλατύς/platus (Strong’s 4116) which can be used as a description of a street as in Matt. 7:13 (flat and stretched out). The corresponding verb is πλάσσω/plassó (Strong’s 4111), which can be translated as form/mould. The French word ”plateau” signifies a level portion (or nearly level) of the earth’s surface. The French word derives from platel, which is a description of a flat object, like a plateIn Swedish the word for”flat” is ”platt” (similar in other Germanic languages).

Compare with Eph. 3:18 ”what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height”, which includes all possible measures, where ”breadth” is directly followed by ”length” indicating a natural contrast between the words and measurements.

Compare also with Rev. 21:16, which concerns measuring of the city of Jerusalem. Once again the breadth is contrasted with the length, and it would not be possible to measure the gates and the walls in this manner unless they were flat. Notice ”the length is as large as the breadth” and the length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 

Rev. 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

***

Moreover, there are about 35 verses each that mention the end/ends of the earth. Naturally it is impossible to find any ”ends” on a ball, and it is just as impossible to figure out which side of a ball that is considered ”the face” (a front of something)Needless to say that the existence of ends and a face of the earth work perfectly on a flat earth model.

I can also recommend reading the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher (both referred to in the Bible) and always compare everything with the Bible.

Satan would like to hide God’s creation from us (in order to hide God), and he is pleased with the teaching of Evolution in combination with billions of years in a heliocentric model – which minimize God and our significance in his creation:

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Rom. 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

I went to the extreme ends of the earth and saw there huge beasts, each different from the other and different birds (also) differing from one another in appearance, beauty, and voice. And to the east of those beasts, I saw the ultimate ends of the earth which rests on the heaven. And the gates of heaven were open, and I saw how the stars of heaven come out…(1 Enoch 33:1-2).

Fake moon landing: A funny thing happened on the way to the moon

If you want to learn more WHY people believe in a flat earth from their own sources:  Mark Sargent’s Flat earth clues. Eric Dubay’s 200 reasons the earth is not a spinning ball. The youtube channel My perspective.

(Note, that I do not necessarily agree with all statements in the links I recommend here or elsewhere on my Blog.)

Dokumentär film om platt jord från ett kristet bibliskt perspektiv

Plattjordtro sprider sig

Med tanke på den falska bild av plattjordmodellen som sprids av internetsidor såsom answersingenesis och creation (som mestadels slår ner halmgubbar genom att kritisera vanställda åsikter som ingen har), så kommer här nedan en bättre förklaring av modellen – främst för att den kommer direkt från källan. Visserligen så har de vanliga plattjordtroende olika åsikter sinsimellan, men de delar åtminstone själva grundkonceptet av modellen (och tror inte att vi bor på en snurrande boll) samt ogillar  den organisationen som kallar sig ”Flat earth society” som de ser som sina motståndare. Av det skälet ska man alltså inte göra misstaget att citera från denna organisation om man vill debattera med en plattjordtroende, eftersom denne förmodligen inte håller med.

Med tanke på den snabba spridningen av plattjordtro anser jag nästan att det är ett krav att sätta sig in i hur detta kan vara möjligt. Det kan vi endast göra genom att studera  argumenten – från deras material, och inte från deras motståndares material. Det finns inga andra sätt. Detta leder förhoppningsvis till att man kan få mer respekt för människor som har en annan åsikt om jorden, utan att man nödvändigtvis håller med. Annars så kan det gå som i fallet med pastorn som fick sparken efter över 8 år i sin tjänst, trots att han inte ens yppat sin tro i kyrkan! Hur kan detta ämne splittra kristna på det sättet? Bibeln beskriver det inte som en synd att tro på en jord som inte rör sig och som står på fyra pelare med ett himlavalv över sig.

Själv välkomnar jag denna stora plattjordtro eftersom fokus sätts på Guds skapelse (och därför på det faktum att det finns en Skapare) och vår unika centralt placerade jord. Så skulle inte Satan agera, eftersom han snarare hoppas att så många som möjligt tror på evolutionsteorin, slumpen, en mycket gammal jord som inte ens är en liten prick i universum och där människorna är helt betydelselösa och oälskade.

Oavsett vilken sida man står på så kan jag rekommendera en videokanal som heter My perspective, pga den imponerande grafiken. Det är sällan man håller med om allt som sägs ens i imponerande videomaterial, men då får man spotta ut benen och behålla resten. Missa heller inte Flat earth man’s videokanal Conspiracy music guru, med underhållande musikvideor (även om han ibland använder ovårdat språk).

The FIRMAMENT in Biblical Genesis – something visible and SOLID – the meaning of raqia

footstool

Acts 7:49 ”Heaven is My throne, and the earth a footstool of My feet”

And God said, Let there be A FIRMAMENT in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters (Gen. 1:6)

(Bible verses further down below.)

Heroic efforts have been made to explain away the firmament which we can read about in the Bible, partly because of the clear implications that it is durable enough to hold waters above it, but still small (and near) enough to enclose the celestial bodies which Genesis talks about. This Biblical information bothers many Christians due to their hard task to try to fit in the moon landings, the ball-shaped earth and heliocentrism – which are believed to be modern truths that must be saved to all costs. The Evolution theory is naturally impossible to save if the earth is not made through a Big Bang billions of years ago because lots of time is required in order to make this theory sound plausible.

It is more honest to read the Bible without trying to save certain theories, even if we are convinced they are true, because it is never a sin to read Biblical texts in its proper context. Even secular people must admit that the Bible has over the years proved to be a highly trustworthy book because of the many details about cities, people, leaders, wars, coins, etc, which have parallels also in other old sources as well as in history and archaeology. It is therefore interesting to see what the Bible says about the firmament – which this blog post is about. If we try to be neutral with no preconceived ideas, what does the Bible really say about it?

It is of interest to see how the Greek Septuagint has rendered the Hebrew word raqia with help from the holy Spirit. The answer is the noun στερέωμα (stereóma) from Strong’s 4733, meaning a support, strength (solidity), firmness, steadfastness. It derives from the verb στερεόω (stereoó) from Strong’s 4732, and can mean strengthen, confirm, establish, solidify, make strong, make firm. HELP’s word studies: Cognate: – make stable (solid, immoveable). The adjective is στερεός (stereos) from Strong’s 4731, and the short definition is hard/firm. It can also be translated solid, steadfast or immoveable.

The first occurrence can be found in the first chapter of Genesis (Gen. 1:6) where we can read about God’s creation. This means that raqia/stereóma is something physical that was made. The latin Vulgate has translated the word firmamentum.

The Bible contains many verses where the writer is in total awe about God’s creation of the heavens and the firmament, but if the firmament is nothing physical but at the most air or space, then this type of ”handiwork” is not much do be impressed about. However, if the firmament is a physical vault covering the entire earth and containing the stars, the sun and the moon, then it is definitely something to mention in a psalm.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens [shamayim] declare the glory of God; and the firmament [raqiya] sheweth his handywork.   

Since also theologians can be in error about the Bible, even if it is scarce, the best tools to verify the meaning of a term are:

  1. The Bible itself. To see how the same term is used elsewhere in the Bible.
  2. The Septuagint can be used to check equivalent Hebrew expressions in Greek. 
  3. Other old trustworthy writings from the same period, particularly those referred to in the Bible (the book of Enoch, the book of Jasher).  
  4. Old church fathers – the older the better. What quotes do they use, and how do they understand the term? Which lost books do they speak highly of? (See here that the church fathers indeed believed in a physical firmament.)

Based on the above tools, it is very hard to come to any other conclusion than that the firmament is a physical object above the sky – the outer edge – and the celestial bodies are placed in it.

The Jewish historian Josephus /Ch.1. The constitution of the world and the disposition of the elements/:

1. — After this, on the second day, he placed the heaven over the whole world, and separated it from the other parts, and he determined it should stand by itself. He also placed a crystalline [firmament] round it, and put it together in a manner agreeable to the earth, and fitted it for giving moisture and rain, and for affording the advantage of dews.  

If the firmament is constructed as the Bible explains, naturally no moon landing couldmark twain ever have taken place. With or without the firmament problem, there is absolutely no evidence that man has ever been to the moon, but there is evidence that NASA has lied to us and faked all moon missions (check out also other NASA lies linked to the ISS, the Hubble telescope, etc). The reason why it is now 2018 and people still believe man has been on the moon, is because they are convinced that NASA would not lie to them, because they believe thousands or millions of people must have been involved (which is totally false), and because they have not seen films such as ”A funny thing happened on the way to the moon” (proves cheating), or Jarrah White’s youtube channel Moonfaker, or Marcus Allen’s moon hoax films or any of the fake moon landing photos on aulis, etc. Instead they rely on mainstream media and that they must avoid alternative news to be good and obedient citizens. It really should be enough to see the press conference right after the first moon landing, where the three astronauts should have danced around the room of joy just for having survived the round trip despite all the radiation impact and other risks, but instead they looked like their favorite dog just died. Surprisingly, they could not even remember if they could see any stars on their trip or not. Michael Collins claimed he could not remember seeing any stars at all (contrary to Neil Armstrong’s claim), but later in his book he mentioned all the beautiful stars he could see.

Bible verses showing the Hebrew verb raqa and the Hebrew noun raqia

The English word ”firmament” is based on the Latin word firmamentum, used in the Vulgate and this term in turn is derived from the Latin root firmus – a cognate with ”firm”. It is a Latinization of the Greek stereōma which appears in the Septuagint version of the Bible.

The original Hebrew noun in the Old Testament is raqia (Strong’s 7549) and can be translated as an extended surface or expanse. Bluletterbible also offers ”a visible arch of the sky”. This noun is used 17 times in the KJV.   

The corresponding Hebrew verb raqa (Strong’s 7554) could be translated into: to beat, beat out, stamp, hammer and spread out thinly, like the process of making a dish by hammering thin a lump of metal. This verb is used 11 times in the KJV.

Let us start with the Bible verses with the verb form, so that we can easier understand what the noun might mean thanks to the details. The most interesting verse is Job 37:18 which could be translated as God beating out the skies as strong as metal. 

Can you, with Him, spread out the skies, Strong as a molten mirror? (NASB)

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror? (ESV)

Below, the verb use in the KJV This verb is for example used when we read about beating gold into thin plates, plates being made broad to cover an altar, goldsmiths spreading out gold over graven images, silver spread into plates, and God stretching out the earth (most importantly, when he spreads out the sky which is strong as molten looking-glass).

Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Ex. 39:3 And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.

Num. 16:39 And Eleazar the priest took the brasen censers, wherewith they that were burnt had offered; and they were made broad plates for a covering of the altar:

2 Sam. 22:41 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies, that I might destroy them that hate me.— 43 Then did I beat them as small as the dust of the earth, I did stamp them as the mire of the street, and did spread them abroad.

Ps. 136:6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Is. 40:19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.

Is. 42:5 5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein

Is. 44:24 24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Jer. 10:9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

Ez. 6:11 Thus saith the Lord God; Smite with thine hand, and stamp with thy foot, and say, Alas for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! for they shall fall by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence.

Ez. 25:6 For thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast clapped thine hands, and stamped with the feet, and rejoiced in heart with all thy despite against the land of Israel

flat earthBelow, the noun use in the KJV – this noun is for example used to show something visible, solid, with a certain color (crystal) and brightness, and strong enough to hold water above it. There is water both below this firmament (on the earth) as well as above. We know from films of stars that they indeed look like they are placed behind a layer of water. The firmament is also called ”heaven” but is specifically explained as ”the firmament of the heaven”. The celestial bodies (the lights) are placed in this firmament and not above it. The lights are there specifically to give light upon the earth, and to be used as signs for the inhabitants of the earth. The birds were created to fly in the open firmament of heaven”. Based on psalms, this firmament is still in existence to show the glory of God. The firmament is stretched forth over our heads and Ezekiel describes the firmament to be rather near, because the odd-looking creatures with wings will be close by this firmament with their voices heard from it. The context of Ezekiel requires a literal vault or dome.

Gen. 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.— 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

 Ps. 150:1 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

Ez. 1:15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.— 22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. 23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

Ez. 10:1 Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne.

Dan. 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Other versesearth

Other equivalent verses about the firmament which looks like a tabernacle or tent. A rotating globe circling around the sun naturally does not need a ”foundation”, nor any pillars to stand on. Spreading out the firmament/vault/tabernacle as a tent over the earth, for the inhabitants to dwell in, would be hard to imagine on a ball.

Is. 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Job 9:1 Then Job answered and said —6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south. 

Job  36:29 Also can any understand the spreadings of the clouds, or the noise of his tabernacle?30 Behold, he spreadeth his light upon it, and covereth the bottom of the sea.

Job 38:44 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?— 13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.

1 Sam. 2:7 The Lord maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the PILLARS of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

Psalm 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

Psalm 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.” 

The Apocalypse of Baruch is not a canonized book, but it could still very well be that this book confirms the Bible in part or in total. It seems like the Bible, lost books/pseudogrypha, old church fathers, the Septauagint, etc, all say the same thing: The firmament is solid. 

Greek Apocalypse of Baruch, 3:5–8:

”Those who gave counsel to build the tower, for they whom thou seest drove forth multitudes of both men and women, to make bricks; among whom, a woman making bricks was not allowed to be released in the hour of child-birth, but brought forth while she was making bricks, and carried her child in her apron, and continued to make bricks. And the Lord appeared to them and confused their speech, when they had built the tower to the height of four hundred and sixty-three cubits. And they took a gimlet, and sought to pierce the heavens, saying, Let us see (whether) the heaven is made of clay, or of brass, or of iron. When God saw this He did not permit them, but smote them with blindness and confusion of speech, and rendered them as thou seest.

Stars will fall to the earth, and people continue to live

Stars can fall from the skies according to Daniel 8:10 and Matthew 24:29, as well as Revelations.

Rev. 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 1And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb

Rev: 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Rev. 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Ps. 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

If one star let alone all the stars in the sky fell on the earth, no one would be able to either hide or speak since the earth would burn up long before this happened.

The book of Enoch – a flat earth bookflat earth 5

Numerous manuscripts of 1 Enoch have  been found in Ethiopian monasteries, and they have also been found among the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran. The book of Enoch and the book of Jasher are both quoted in the Bible. This means that we should not view the text lightly, but rather with the assumption that they likely contain valid descriptions of our past.

The punishment of the fallen angels described in 2 Peter seems to resemble the book of Enoch, as does much of the wording in Revelation. The Epistle of Jude does not only reveal that Genesis should be taken literally (Enoch is in the 7th generation from Adam), but also supports the book of Enoch when it comes to the punishment of the angels – even if the book of Enoch contains many more details. By attributing prophecy to Enoch, Jude gives much support to the validity of his book.

Jude 14 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.—And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

The book of Enoch contains too many descriptions of the sun, moon, stars and angels, etc, to cover here, but here are some quotes:

1 Enoch 1:1. The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. 2. And he took up his parable and said–Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

1 Enoch 18:1. I saw the treasuries of all the winds: I saw how He had furnished with them the whole creation and the firm foundations of the earth. 2. And I saw the corner-stone of the earth: I saw the four winds which bear [ the earth and ] the firmament of the heaven. 3. And I saw how the winds stretch out the vaults of heaven, and have their station between heaven and earth: these are the pillars of the heaven . 4. I saw the winds of heaven which turn and bring the circumference of the sun and all the stars to their setting. 5. I saw the winds on the earth carrying the clouds: I saw the paths of the angels. I saw at the end of the earth the firmament of the heaven above. —9. And I saw a flaming fire. And beyond these mountains 10. is a region the end of the great earth:there the heavens were completed.  — 15. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. 

1 Enoch 21:1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. 3. And there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. 4. Then I said: ‘For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?’ 5. Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: ‘Enoch, why dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? 6. These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.’ 7. And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. 8. Then I said: ‘How fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!’ 9. Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: ‘Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?’ And I answered: ‘Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.’ 10. And he said unto me: ‘This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.’

1 Enoch 33:2. And to the east of those beasts I saw the ends of the earth whereon the heaven rests, and the portals of the heaven open. 3. And I saw how the stars of heaven come forth, and I counted the portals out of which they proceed, and wrote down all their outlets, of each individual star by itself, according to their number and their names, their courses and their positions, and their times and their months, as Uriel the holy angel who was with me showed me. 

1 Enoch 72:2-5. This is the first commandment of the luminaries: The sun is a luminary whose egress is an opening of heaven, which is (located) in the direction of the east, and whose ingress is (another) opening of heaven, (located) in the west. I saw six openings through which the sun rises and six openings through which it sets. The moon also rises and sets through the same openings, and they are guided by the stars; together with those whom they lead, they are six in the east and six in the west heaven. All of them (are arranged) one after another in a constant order. There are many windows (both) to the right and the left of these openings. First there goes out the great light whose name is the sun; its roundness is like the roundness of the sky; and it is totally filled with light and heat. The chariot in which it ascends is (driven by) the blowing wind. The sun sets in the sky (in the west) and returns by the northeast in order to go to the east; it is guided so that it shall reach the eastern gate and shine in the face of the sky,

According to this description, stars that rise and set do so through openings in the dome, just like the sun and moon. Enoch describes the sun and the moon as being of the same size. Most stars belong in certain star constellations, but there are also wandering stars who do not follow the order. They are the ones which have transgressed the commandments of God because they do not arrive punctually (1 Enoch 18:14-15). Like the Bible, 1 Enoch typically depicts stars, and the ”sons of God” as living, anthropomorphic beings. This is consistent with Job 38:7, which says that when the earth’s cornerstone was laid “the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted aloud.”

Also King David describes the sun as a male, and just like Enoch and David too speaks about chambers, running a race, etc:

Ps. 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Job  9:1 Then Job answered and said,2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?— 6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

FE 4No need to fear the flat earth movement and their arguments

The last thing that Satan would do is to push people straight into the arms of God, but this is exactly what the flat earth movement is doing. For this reason there is no reason to be upset with people who have come to the conclusion that the earth if flat based on the Biblical information (others have of course come to this conclusion regardless of the Bible), and who do what they can to refute Big Bang, Evolution, heliocentrism, a global earth, etc. If they are wrong, it is better to explain why and present better arguments. Satan does not even want people to believe in God in the first place, so flat-earthers are certainly not his best friends. Not all flat earthers are Christians, but they still inadvertently highlight the existence of a Creator and that the earth, with its inhabitants, is the absolute center of his creation and with everything revolving around it. This is far from the naturalistic and materialistic world – with no room for a Creator – which we are brought up to believe in.

The Bible explains that our Creator can be detected through his creation, by the things that are made. Naturally then Satan would like to do all he can to hide this divine creation from the people of the earth, and he also offers other an alternative which does not require a Creator to start with.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the THINGS that are MADE, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Satan’s presentation of our existence includes Big Bang and Evolution in order to deceive people to turn their backs on a Creator, but heliocentrism is also a piece of this puzzle (and the idea that the earth is a planet among other planets) since it reduces the earth into a tiny little speck circling the sun in a vast universe which likely contains more ”earths” with living creatures since the earth is far from unique. This in turn reduces human being into brief parentheses in time, with no purpose, without a God who loves them, with no value whatsoever and particularly with no future. In Satan’s world, the earth is far from placed in the center, but is rather mere dust which came about by chance.

The Biblical creation account is the exact opposite. In the Bible we can read that the earth is the center of God’s world, is his footstool, hangs on nothing, is immovable, is placed on four pillars, human beings on it are the crown of his creation, has a firmament/dome/vault/arch over it which is stretched out like a tent to dwell in, stars are small enough to fall on earth, etc. Flat-earthers would even say that the Bible straight out says that the earth is flat.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 

The word ”breadth” above is a description of the shape of the earth, and not certain parts of the earth. The word is a translation from the noun πλάτος/platos, Strong’s 4114, which means broad, something stretched out, flat, wide and is sometimes interpreted as ”broad plain” = NASB. The adjective is πλατύς, Strong’s 4116, which can be used as a description of a street. The origin comes from the verb πλάσσω/plassó, Strong’s 4111, which can be defined as ”forming/spreading/flattening out”. NE provides the information that it is connected to the French word plateau, of platel, which is a flat object.  

The above is no proof for that the earth is flat, but rather that the Biblical authors believed it was. If you want to learn why people believe in the flat earth, I recommend Mark Sargent’s Flat earth clues or the youtube channel ”Celebrate truth” (the latter from a Christian perspective).

You can read about ”the circle of the earth” from Is. 40:22 in this blog article.

PLANETS in the creation account, wandering STARS, fallen angels – Jude 13

amos 5”Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; WANDERING STARS, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever” (Jude 13)

”Wandering” derives from the Greek noun πλανήτης (planétés, Strong’s 4107), and is only used in the Bible in Jude 1:13, where we can read about wandering stars. About this word we can read in Biblehub that it derives from the verb πλανάω (planáo, Strong’s 4105) with the meaning of go astray, deceive, get off course, wander or cause to wander. This verb is used 39 times in the KJV. It can be used to signify a star that is wandering (a planet), and in a figurative sense it could mean a false teacher exploiting other aimless people leading them to go astray. This verb is also used to describe the Israelites’ wandering around in the desert during the Exodus.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive (planáo, Strong’s 4105) you.For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive (planáo, Strong’s 4105) many. — 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 

2 Tim. 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving,(planáo, Strong’s 4105) and being deceived (planáo, Strong’s 4105).14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

Ja. 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err (planáo, Strong’s 4105): from the truth, and one convert him;20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

2 Pet. 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray (planáo, Strong’s 4105), following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

This is where the English word ”planet” is coming from, and it is a word which we can also recognize in numerous other languages (with minor differences in spelling).

stjärnorPlanets in the Bible?

Many have asked why planets are not mentioned in the Bible, but only the earth, the sun and the moon. Should they not get a mention? If the planets are in fact ”stars” they are already mentioned. The Bible seems to refer to the planets (what we today understand as planets) as wandering stars in Jude 13, in contrast to the other stars in the sky. Most stars are not wandering at all but are fixed in their proper places – many of them belong in certain star constellations which can be seen from earth – yet certain stars are considered to be wandering. The planets/the wandering stars are seven in number just like our weekdays: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. They are all tied to various gods in ancient times.

The earth is described as being created prior to light on the first day and is a place which God intended to be inhabited (Isa. 45:18), which means that he did not wait to accomplish this goal for billions of years. The stars (the fixed stars and the wandering ones) on the other hand were created on the 4th day, and they are something entirely different than our unique earth.

The purpose of the earth was to be inhabited with human beings, animals and vegetation. The purpose of the sun and the moon (each described as lights) was to divide the day from the night, to be signs (for certain seasons, days and years) and to give light on the earth. The purpose of the stars was apparently to help out providing light and signs for the inhabitants of earth. We can read about the stars ”he made the stars also” just after describing the purpose of the sun and the moon, and the author goes on to say God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness” which works out well for all the celestial lights. 

Based on the book of Enoch and the Bible, the sun is referred to as He, and the moon as She.

Is. 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Ez. 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

Judg. 5:31 So let all thine enemies perish, O Lord: but let them that love him be as the sun when he goeth forth in his might. And the land had rest forty years.

Seven stars?

Amos 5:8 Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The Lord is his name:

The above could of course signify an open star cluster called the Pleiades (the seven sisters), in the constellation of Taurus. It is the cluster most obvious to the naked eye in the sky. Orion is, like Taurus, a star constellation. Maybe it could also refer to the seven wandering stars.

Gen. 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.—14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Fallen angels

The Bible mentions angels which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation. Jude also compared with the unnatural way that the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrha lived their life with sexual perversion (homosexuality):

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jude refers to Enoch as ”seventh from Adam”, showing that he understood the history in Genesis as being literal (Enoch is indeed the seventh generation from Adam). Jude had no reason to doubt that the description of the sons of God (angels) was literal as well:

Gen. 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Also the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher confirm this story and provide even more details.

The sun (or the stars) were not needed to illuminate the earth the first 3 days (the sun was created on Day 4), and we know from the book of Revelation that the lamb of God (Jesus) will be the one to give us light in the new Jerusalem where a sun will not be needed.

Satan, a beautiful starconstellations

Satan, a beautiful star, fell from heaven due to his rebellion. Now he walks about it trying to deceive people.

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

1 Pet. 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, WALKETH ABOUT, seeking whom he may devour

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. (also Job 2:1-2) 

The prince of Tyrus and the prince of the air (Satan) show a similar life pattern to each other as can be seen below. Satan was indeed a bright star:

Ez. 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:—  12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

According to Christian flat earth supporters, they believe the stars are smaller and closer to earth, placed in (not above) the firmament. (Read about the Biblical meaning of ”firmament” – raqia – in this blog article.) If the stars were larger, they would not be able to fall down to earth but they would cause the earth to burn up long before approaching. This means that we would not be able to read about various events taking place on earth AFTER the stars had fallen down on it since the earth would then have become non-existent. Still, according to the Bible the life on earth goes on even after the stars will have fallen down on it.

Rev. 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev: 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Rev. 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. — And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. See also Matt. 24:29

Dan. 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Ps. 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

The book of Enoch explains that seven particular stars, who were disobedient to God, will receive a terrible punishment in the future:

1 Enoch 21:1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. 3. And there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. 4. Then I said: ‘For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?’ 5. Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: ‘Enoch, why dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? 6. These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.’ 7. And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. 8. Then I said: ‘How fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!’ 9. Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: ‘Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?’ And I answered: ‘Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.’ 10. And he said unto me: ‘This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.’

Why do stars twinkle? It actually looks like they are placed in a layer of water.God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament:—And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven.” Read about ”the circle of the earth” (not translated as a ball, globe, or sphere) in Is. 40:22 here. If you want a list with all Bible verses in chronological order which support a geocentric flat earth model, please see this list with comments. 

Stars as they really are, without using CGI the way NASA does:

How globe earthers should not communicate with flat earth believers

FE”Always be ready to give a DEFENSE to everyone WHO ASKS you a reason for the hope that is in you, with MEEKNESS and fear” 1 Pet. 3:15  (NKJV)

The flat earth movement is getting increasingly more popular, and this means that it is logical to take an interest in the subject – to find out why people believe in a flat earth. (Whereas others for some reason get angry at people who do so.) Especially if there is someone out there who believes flat earthers are not even saved due to their incorrect view of the shape of the earth. Unfortunately many globe earthers engage in flat earth discussions with the completely wrong attitude, which leads to that they are wasting their time and make the flat earthers even more confident that they are on the right track. Why else would the globe earthers make so little effort to prove their arguments wrong but resort to demeaning remarks? Is that all they can do? The only way to convince the flat earthers that they are in error, is to study what they believe and debunk those arguments. If you are not able to do so (because you only superficially understand their model and make the wrong assumptions) then it is a lot wiser to remain as a person just asking questions. You will not gain anything by raising up straw man arguments – debating something that no one believes.

Please do not get mad at people who honestly believe something! Sure, they might be in error, but if they have investigated something and are TRULY convinced that it is true, why being upset about it? Would it be better if they lied and denied what they believe, like saying one thing with their mouths and another thing in their hearts? Do you want to scare them into silence? If you manage to scare them into silence, then you will of course not help them out of their errors, but they will continue to believe as before but they will not share their thoughts with you. If they are wrong, is it not better to have a mature conversation about it and get them on the right track? Would Jesus Christ really ridicule and patronize people who honestly believed something is true? Would that behavior convince them that they are wrong? Jesus took the time to explain why the pharisees were in error. When Jesus met the woman at the well, he did not get mad, or raise his voice, or jump up and down, but he explained to her how she could turn her life around for the better. Paul had many discussions with misinformed people.

There are two common reasons to be interested in the flat earth movement that I have noticed. I can say from the start that I belong to the first group:

  1. Since the flat earth idea has become so popular, it is interesting to find out how the flat earth model works and which arguments flat earthers use to support their theories (and which arguments they use to disregard the globe earth). For example, how do they explain the fact that it is possible to circumnavigate the earth? If I have plans to make claims that the flat earth theory does not work, then it would be dishonest if I did not first made sure to understand the theory I am complaining about. I would like to treat others they way I would like to be treated myself. If I do not even know how their theory works, I lack enough knowledge to debunk them.
  2. The other alternative: Since the flat earth theory (which I know almost nothing about) is wrong, I would like to explain to the lost person why it is easily debunked. I will therefore not waste my time by watching flat earth videos, but rather videos which debunk the flat earth (from their opponents). IF I choose to watch a flat earth video, it better be short and I would make sure to have pen and paper handy in order to list things I am about to debunk. That would be my only reason for watching it, and to be able to say ”Yes, I’ve watched flat earth videos, and I therefore know all about their model”. What is presented about the flat earth model in those videos (from the opponents), that IS what the flat earthers believe! Of course I can trust the flat earthers’ opponents to get it right.

The four seasons occur when the sun’s rotations over the earth follow circular paths, going from tighter to wider. This will explain both the constant tropical climate and the midnight sun.

Below are some common mistakes which globe earthers make in their discussions:

Demeaning and patronizing remarksearth 7  

Globe earthers do not seem to understand that all flat earthers used to be globe earthers. As globe earthers, they had the exact same sentiments and used the same arguments which present day globe earthers use. It is therefore a total waste of time to use excessive descriptions about how ignorant, fooled and deceived those are who believe in a flat earth. They already know this is how you feel! They used to feel the same way! They used to have the very same arguments! It would not help in the least if you compared them with mormons, Jehovah’s witnesses, muslims, etc and spent time explaining in detail how easily fooled they are. Again, they already know this is how you feel! You can write page after page with explanations about how deceived and confused they are, because you will still get nowhere. Your information is not new to them. They would only say ”been there, done that”. Adjectives such as ridiculous, absurd, insane, horrid, stupid, foolish, awful, laughable, childish, preposterous, unbelievable, etc, mean nothing to them even if you add several exclamation marks, add several ”lol:s”  and scream tin-foil hats and kooks after them. You are wasting your time. Please note that many (or most, or maybe even all …) of them started to check out flat earth videos in order to debunk them and get examples of  how deceived flat earthers are, and instead they were converted themselves. Not because they like conspiracy theories (they might hate them), but because they felt the facts point to a flat earth and away from a globe earth.

”The flat earthers know better”!

Maybe the most important thing to remember about the flat earthers is this:
They TRULY believe the earth is flat! People might say that they of course already know this, but the same people might still claim that the flat earthers ”know better” than believing in their theory and ”deep in their hearts they know they are wrong”. So make up your mind now. Do you believe that the flat earthers truly believe in the flat earth model, or do you believe that they do not truly believe it after all? Does it matter? Yes, it matters a great deal, because the first option means they still deserve respect, and the other option means the opposite. The first option means that the flat earthers speak the truth about what they believe, and the other option means they are liars and purposely spread falsehood. If you purposely spread a theory which you KNOW is erroneous and fake, this is indeed to cause confusion – as in lying. How then can such a person be a saved Christian? Does not this mean that you cannot be a flat earther and a Christian at the same time? Surely God would have told us in the Bible that it is not enough to repent, believe in Jesus Christ and follow his commandments, but that you must also believe in the correct form of the earth in order to be saved?

If a globe earther does not believe that flat earthers believe in their own theory, he/she is deeply mistaken. Flat earthers (unless they claim otherwise) are convinced about their theory and TRULY believe it is true. It is rather disrespectful to not even trust that people  believe whatever they claim they believe in. Why the doubt? This does not mean they are right about their model, but it means that they likely know better than you do what they themselves believe and why they believe it. If they are wrong, then just explain why by using proper facts and arguments. Can you do this without understanding their model? If you make false assumptions about their model, the conversation might deteriorate because of you. Flat earthers will not be persuaded by patronizing remarks, but they might be persuaded by facts.

”Conspiracy theorists are intentionally LOOKING for ways to turn an official story into a conspiracy theory and are PLEASED to find conspiracies. They are NOT interested in looking for ways to see if the official story might work!”

A statement like the above is a great way to close doors for communication and obstruct a meaningful conversation. I personally know a lot of conspiracy theorists (truth seekers), but I know of no one who is looking for conspiracies. I find that the complete OPPOSITE is true. They absolutely H A T E conspiracies, and the first step they take is to see if they can find ways to save the official story – in order to not end up with yet another government story that does not fit the evidence. Non-conspiracists might reason: ”Since these people believe in multiple conspiracy theories and refuse to budge, this means they love to turn official stories into conspiracy theories just for the joy of it”. What about the opposite alternative, that they do everything they can to save the official story but fail to do so since the facts refuse to cooperate?

If a story does not work due to anomalies (like steel beams turning into dust for no reason) and strange coincidences (like the coroner’s presence at the Sandy Hook school hours before the arrival of the shooter), then unfortunately a person will naturally start to believe that the official story is a lie and that there is a conspiracy. He might investigate the matter even further and find even more anomalies, impossibilities and lies. What is stupid about siding with the facts?

Could it be the Globe earthers who are far more interested in debunking the flat earth theory, than understanding the theory?

Many globe earthers are way more interested in DEBUNKING the flat earth theory than DOING RESEARCH about the flat earth theory to see how it works. This means that the globe earthers have not made their homework and it will be extremely difficult to have a conversation. The flat earther knows about BOTH theories, and the globe earther only knows about ONE theory. The confusion deepens when the globe earther does not even understand his/her lack of knowledge.

A conversation could still run smoothly if the globe earther chooses to ask questions, because no previous knowledge is required for asking questions. Unfortunately many globe earthers work in the exact opposite way. They start off sticking their chins out by making brave claims that they know ”everything there is to know” about the flat earth, or that they know it ”very well”, or that they have ”studied it thoroughly for years”, or similar. Still, many might not even know how a flat earth map looks like! They want to debunk the theory and think they can do this convincingly without studying it.

Learning about the flat earth model through their opponents

Globe earthers often link to videos which supposedly debunk the flat earth, but since the globe earthers avoid flat earth videos as the plague, they do not detect the straw man arguments presented in the globe earth videos. This will make a discussion hard to follow since the flat earther must take his/her time to explain their model to the globe earther who has not done his homework. You can lead the horse to the water, but you cannot make it drink. The safest way to avoid misrepresentations of a model, is to go the source of those who are proponents to that model. Not their enemies! 

Globe earthers often assume that they are the ones with the wider knowledge about the topic (the shape of the earth), but if they have not studied the flat earth model they only know ONE side of the argument and not TWO sides as the flat earthers.

NASA – ”Never A Straight Answer”earth 6

Just about all information about the moon landings and the flat earth comes from NASA. This is ONE source and it is not an objective source. NASA receives billions of dollars every year from American tax payers (like 19,3 billion dollars for the year 2017), and would of course like to display great success in order to continue getting a steady stream of money. It is a good thing to be skeptic about information from NASA because they have proven to be liars, cheaters and green screen lovers. You will also find military and/or free masons in the very top. There are lots of flat earth believers, but there are even more people (me included) who believe the moon landings are fake. Bart Sibrel’s (a Christian man) movie ”A funny thing happened on the way to the moon”, proves that NASA faked half way to the moon and this website shows that the photographs are fake. I can also recommend Jarrah White’s video channel ”Moonfaker” .

Globe earthers should try to understand why flat earthers will not accept NASA as a source.  Not all flat earth arguments must involve NASA, so it is probably easier to focus on those arguments if you want to debunk the flat earth.

Why has no one been to the edge? 

Because they have been to the edge. The edge = Antarctica. Globe earthers would save a lot of time if they read about the Antarctic treaty and about admiral Richard Byrd as well as his expeditions to Antarctica. No one is allowed to go anywhere near Antarctica without authorized company, and if anyone tries he/she will be shot.

How could all NASA employees and other millions of people keep such a secret?

This is a very common question, and if the globe earthers had studied the flat earth, they would know that the flat earthers do not believe that a lot of NASA employees are aware of either a faked moon landing or a flat earth (particularly not the latter). They rather believe that only a few people in the very top of certain affected organisations would know about it, and they are likely tied to the military (or CIA) and have signed secrecy agreements. For example, think about the famous films/pictures of the control center i Houston, in 1969, where loads of people can be seen in front of their screens (or elsewhere) screaming and shouting. How many of them would know that the moon landing was a hoax? None of them would have to know.

Why would not some of the insiders disclose their findings? Likely because they are military and/or free masons, but some do disclose it. But who would they really tell, and who would believe them and spread it further? A newspaper? And the reporters on that newspaper would immediately start to write about it? Of course not. Others have spread the news, or intended to spread the news, and suddenly died very young in suicides or sudden accidents.

The flat earth theory highlights a trustworthy Bible which means what it saysfootstool

Some globe earthers claim the flat earth theory is of Satan because it is causing confusion and deception. I am not afraid of the flat earth theory at all, because it promotes a trustworthy Bible – which Satan would never do. The flat earthers often highlight that the the Bible means what it says when it comes to the creation order (the earth before the sun), the description of the sun, moon, stars and the firmament, but also the various details provided about the earth. The earth is described as being stationary (does not move…), placed on pillars, having four corners earth 8.jpgand with a dome over it like a tent – where we are living under and inside the firmament/tent. The earth is also described as being God’s footstool. Naturally it would not be a literal footstool but if the earth looked like a ball, the analogy would not make any sense whatsoever. On the other hand, a flat earth, with four pillars beneath it and four corners, would look precisely as a footstool. There is a Hebrew word for ”ball” which is not used in the Bible when it comes to describing the earth, but the word for ”circle” is used. Joshua’s long day, where both the sun and the moon are claimed to stand still, does not make any sense in a heliocentric model, but makes perfect sense in a geocentric model. Again, flat earthers often point out that we can trust the Bible exactly as it says, from beginning to end, and this is the opposite of what Satan would do. Satan would try to lead us away from the Bible by fooling us to believe that the Bible contains multiple anomalies and things that do not fit the reality. Satan is responsible for popularizing the Evolution theory, and there are still Christians (old earth creationists) who try to combine a billions of years old earth with the Bible.

The other day I happened to see a person (Person 1 below) who entered a flat earth thread on Facebook and spent several posts in describing how important it was to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. He explained that it was his discovery of the flat earth which made him think harder and realized that the earth is way too unique to not have a creator, etc. Even if the concept of a flat earth is naturally not the only reason for believing in God, for some people it can still be the catalyst to think twice about the big bang, Evolution, billions of years, earth being a tiny speck in the vast universe, life on other planets, etc.

Person 1: when I finally found it it blew my being to pieces and shattered all my preconceived ideas. But it took a personal encounter and I had to get to the end of myself to be willing to give it a go. That was way way back in time but I havent walked away from it since…..

Person 2: when I found out about the flat earth that was a rollercoaster ride for me mentality lol going from a atheist to believing a creator, I definitely don’t rule out the bible not at all, it’s early days for me iv only been a flat earther for a year

Person 3: i was atheist before coming to FE

I have seen many similar confessions, and that is why I am not at all afraid of the flat earth movement. The devil would not help out promoting a trustworthy Bible nor move us closer to a Creator, but he would do the exact opposite.

”They have answers for everything!”mark twain.jpg

When it comes to conspiracy theories in general, it is actually the official story believers who always have answers (excuses) for everything. They are ready to excuse lie after lie coming from the government (or NASA), and they will excuse any anomaly there is even if they really have no valid solution to a known problem. Just like a muslim who is ready to defend their prophet no matter what he has done. Why did WTC7 decide to fall at free fall speed for no reason? How come the fall was announced 22 minutes before it fell? Why did the plane at Pentagon and the one in Pennsylvania leave any trace of either luggage och passengers? Why so many cell phone calls from the planes, when such connections have proven to be absolutely impossible? The excuses might go:

”There simply must be a valid reason even if it is not known … The government wouldn’t lie to us … That would be just too absurd …”, etc

conspiracyIf you do not even believe the moon landings are fake, or that 9/11 is an inside job, you will likely not be able to understand flat earthers

You would be too far apart. If you believe man has been on the moon, it is better that you start with this issue before you engage yourself in a flat earth discussion.

Can you explain why portable toilets and refreshments were ordered to the Sandy Hook school before the day of the shooting? You might ask ”What are you talking about? I’ve never heard of that!”, and that is the point. Always remember that the conspiracy theorist knows about TWO sides of the story (the official one and the conspiracy) whereas you only know about the official one. YOU lack in knowledge. Not the conspiracy theorist.

There are too many false flag events to study in depth, but I have studied numerous by reading books, articles and watched/listened to youtube films. Some might claim it is a waste of valuable time, but I have managed to cover a lot of information through listening to my ipod when I am out running, and my night shift job also enables me to study. On the other hand I do not wast my time watching football …

I have encountered Christians who are upset (angry) when they understand that I do not swallow the official story of 9/11 (for example) and they lack in patience. They might on one hand ask me to prove a conspiracy, but on the other hand refuse to go through any of information/links I provide which can provide answers. It is like they want me to prove a conspiracy in five sentences and if I am not able to do that then they ”won” and my view is deemed as incorrect. I certainly do not open all links myself that I receive from others, but I would if I am the one starting out with the claim that there is no proof for something.

Kan man bevisa att jorden är PLATT, eller en rund glob? Och vad säger Bibeln?

 

platt jord.jpgDen kristna attityden inför människor som har avvikande åsikter

Flat-earth-filmer (innehållande platt-jord-argument) längre ner i artikeln.

Läs gärna artikeln ”Lista med 50 exempel som bevisar att jorden är platt. Varför tvivlar folk på ett jordklot?”

För att ge ett exempel på ett av många problem som människor har gällande globteorin skulle man kunna nämna kampen att hitta jordens krökning, och varför då inte ta Rob Skibas experiment som exempel. NASA har nämligen bara producerat det berömda Blue Marble fotot från 1972, och det finns anledningar att betvivla äktheten.

Människor som bor mitt emot Chicaco på andra sidan Lake Michigan, ska inte kunna se staden pga jordens krökning. Det är nämligen drygt 80 km från Chicago till kusten på andra sidan sjön, och staden ska därför befinna sig gott och väl under horisonten. Problemet är att man KAN se Chicago på det här avståndet (inte bara taken på de högsta skyskraporna), även om det vissa dagar krävs att man kommer närmare staden för att kunna se den pga dimma. En meterolog förklarade fenomenet med att det handlade om en hägring (för staden ska inte kunna gå att se på 80 kms håll!), men Rob visar genom sin båtfärd att det inte handlar om en hägring. Han och övriga båtpassagerare kunde se Chicago från 74 km avstånd på sin båttur, och staden blev allt mer tydligare ju närmare staden de kom. Vidare är detta inte ett unikt problem, eftersom det finns hur många exempel som helst på liknande vittnesmål vad gäller andra synobjekt. Det är bara att googla eller kolla på youtube.

Den här artikeln handlar mer om människors ATTITYD gentemot människor som tror på en platt jord. En mer detaljerad text om jordens form enligt Bibeln finner du i denna artikel. (Jordens form enligt Bibeln och Enoks bok – platt med hörnpelare och himlavalv.)

Det verkar vara mer populärt än någonsin att tro att jorden är platt. Hur ska man bemöta sådana udda åsikter? Ur en kristen utgångspunkt så borde man kunna behärska sig och försöka acceptera att det finns människor som inte delar ens åsikter – samt passa på att framföra bättre argument. Man kanske skulle kunna tycka att detta är en självklarhet med respekt och självbehärskning men jag har personligen träffat på kristna som visat upp en hatisk sida när de träffat på en annan medtroende som haft udda åsikter och vid mötet gett sig själva rätten att håna, hota, förlöjliga och t o m blockera samt förtala. M.a.o. har de agerat helt tvärt emot kärleksbudet; att älska Gud över allting och sin nästa som sig själv. I stället för att kärlekslöst kasta ut en syster/broder i mörkret så skulle de kunnat ta sig tid att samtala med personen och förklara varför denne misstagit sig. Framför allt om dessa kristna anser att den avvikande åsikten är så fruktansvärd att den gör personen ofrälst, för då då har man alltså en förlorad person framför sig som man har chansen att omvända om man orkar föra en vuxen dialog.

Nedan verser handlar visserligen om den tålmodiga kampen att övertyga människor om evangeliet, men de visar även på att vi borde vara beredda att försöka undanröja alla hinder som står i vägen mellan människor och sanningen. Detta gör vi genom att förmedla bättre argument, och på liknande sätt skulle vi kunna resonera om vi menar att människor är helt fel ute gällande andra ämnen. Exempelvis finns människor som inte förmår ta till sig Bibelns undervisning eftersom de felaktigt fått för sig att Bibeln har fel redan på första sidan där det framkommer att allting skapades på 6 dagar. Då är det inte säkert att de blir hjälpta av att vi viftar bort problemet och ber dem att tänka på annat. De flesta sanningssökare vill förmodligen i det läget få denna hopplösa knut löst, och då är framförande av bättre argument det bästa knepet. (Vad gäller kreationism rekommenderar jag http://www.genesis.nu.) Notera tålmodigheten i verserna nedan (framför allt Paulus tålmodighet):

2 Kor. 10:4 De vapen vi strider med är inte svaga utan har makt inför Gud att bryta ner fästen. Ja, vi bryter ner tankebyggnader 5 och allt högt som reser sig upp mot kunskapen om Gud. Och vi gör varje tanke till en lydig fånge hos Kristus 

1 Petrus 3:15 — Var ALLTID beredda att SVARA VAR OCH EN som begär att ni FÖRKLARAR det hopp ni äger

Jak. 5:19 Mina bröder, om någon bland er kommer bort från sanningen och någon för honom tillbaka, 20 så skall denne veta att den som återför en syndare från hans villoväg frälser hans själ från döden och överskyler många synder.

Apg. 17:17 Han samtalade nu i synagogan med judarna och med dem som fruktade Gud och dessutom varje dag på torget med dem som han träffade där. 18 Även en del filosofer, både epikureer och stoiker, diskuterade med honom och en del sade: ”Vad kan den där pratmakaren vilja säga?” Andra sade: ”Han tycks vara en som förkunnar främmande gudar.” Detta sade de, eftersom han predikade evangeliet om Jesus och uppståndelsen.

Apg. 28:23 De bestämde en dag för honom, och då kom ännu fler till hans bostad. För dem förkunnade han Guds rike och vittnade om det, och han försökte ÖVERTYGA dem om Jesus, både utifrån Mose lag och profeterna. Och det höll han på med från morgonen ända till kvällen24 Somliga lät sig övertygas av hans ord, men andra ville inte tro.

Apg. 19:Sedan gick han in i synagogan och under tre månader PREDIKADE han frimodigt. Han samtalade med dem och försökte övertyga dem om det som hör till Guds rike. Men där fanns några som förhärdade sig och inte ville tro utan talade illa om ‘den vägen’, så att alla hörde det. Då lämnade han dem och tog lärjungarna med sig, och varje dag HÖLL HAN SAMTAL i Tyrannus hörsal.10 Detta pågick under två år, så att alla som bodde i Asien, judar och greker, fick höra Herrens ord.

Paulus verkar alltså inte vara typen som blir arg när han stöter på människor som har genuina, men felaktiga, övertygelser i sina hjärtan utan han försöker i stället att resonera och diskutera.

Något som är helt bortkastat är att försöka få en person med en viss övertygelse att helt enkelt upphöra med denna övertygelse (utan att ens ha bemödat sig med att ge bättre argument mer än att den andra har FEL), och att i princip be personen LJUGA om sina egna övertygelser. Om personen inte går med på att avvika från sin fasta övertygelse (eftersom han/hon inte vill ljuga inför Gud) så kan vissa kristna totalt tappa fattningen och kalla personen både det ena och det andra. Jag vet eftersom jag varit med om det. Att exempelvis be någon ”Sluta att tro att 9/11 är en false flag attack!”, är alltså lättare sagt än gjort om personen faktiskt tror det motsatta. Ska personen ljuga om sina egna åsikter? Återigen är det bästa botemedlet inte hån, tystnad eller ilska utan snarare att lösa knutar och komma med bättre argument. Men en del tror att de gör en Guds gärning genom att frysa ut den som tror fel... Utgå ifrån att det inte är personen med den avvikande åsikten som är för lite påläst i ämnet utan DU. (Det betyder dock inte att den som är mest påläst automatiskt har rätt.)

De som tror på en platt jord har kommit till denna slutsats beroende på artiklar, böcker, filmer, konversationer, eller dylikt. Källmaterialet kan givetvis vara vinklat och ha fel, men sanningen är ändå att personerna tror som de gör. Detta bör respekteras! (Att respektera är inte detsamma som att hålla med.) Dessa personer är inte terrorister, mördare eller pedofiler som borde baktalas eller bestraffas. De tror bara att jorden är platt. Många av dem kanske önskar att de trodde på en glob som alla andra.

Argument för en platt jord?

Min första reaktion när jag insåg att det finns folk idag som tror på en platt jord, var min fundering på hur de löser problemet med att folk faktiskt transporterat sig från kontinent till kontinent, runt, runt i cirklar? Är inte detta det bästa beviset på att jorden måste vara en glob? Eller är de hur ologiska som helst? När jag sedan fick se deras jordmodell så var jag tvungen att erkänna att man precis lika lätt kan transportera sig runt mellan kontinenter enligt deras modell som med globmodellen (men definitivt inte flyga hela vägen över Antarktis till andra sidan). Min andra spontana invändning mot en platt jord gällde det här med att man kan betrakta båtar som försvinner över horisonten och där överdelen försvinner sist ur betraktarens ögon snarare än aktern. Även detta argument var jag tvungen att överge när jag kunde se filmbevis på att det inte fungerar på det sättet i verkligheten, och att ämnet snarare används av plattjordanhängarna som ett argument för deras egen sak – samt att man kan se en lång rad riktmärken över stora avstånd som egentligen inte ska kunna gå att se pga jordens rundning. Vidare kan de inte acceptera jordklotsfoton som bevis för en glob eftersom dessa härrör sig från NASA och de har i stort sett erkänt att fotona är konstruerade genom CGI. Detta är exempel på konkreta argument (finns fler i filmerna nedan), så vill du vinna över människor till din sida så är det just sådana argument du måste lösa åt dem snarare än att säga ”tro inte så dumt!”.

De som ansvarar för websidan Creation.com gjorde ett försök att en gång för alla motbevisa att jorden är platt, men tyvärr så valde skribenten att inte först undersöka vad anhängarna faktiskt tror. Det innebär att skribenten argumenterade via halmgubbar – att kämpa mot åsikter som anhängarna inte sagt sig ha. När det gäller att bryta ner falska och undermåliga argument måste man börja med att studera vilka argumenten är som man tänkt sig bekämpa. Creation.com är duktiga på att studera allt som har med evolutionsläran att göra, och när författarna sedan skriver sina artiklar med motbevis så kan de vara stolta över att de inte förvrängt motståndarnas åsikter utan baserar sina motargument just på evolutionisternas egna dokumenterade argument. Tyvärr gick de ifrån det konceptet när de producerade artikeln om en platt jord.

Så vad ledde då artikeln till? De som redan innan var övertygade plattjordmotståndare fortsätter förstås att vara det, och om några plattjordanhängare läste artikeln så kan jag tänka mig att de blev ännu mer övertygade om att de själva har rätt eftersom författaren inte lyckades knäcka deras argument. Författaren lyckades säkert bra med att knäcka argument som ingen sagt sig ha (halmgubbar), men inte argumenten som sanna plattjordanhängare använder sig utav. Därmed skulle slutsatsen kunna bli, från de sistnämndas sida, att de anser sig besitta lysande argument för annars skulle väl någon motbevisa dem? Artikeln var alltså inte till någon som helst hjälp för någon, och gjorde bara avgrunden mellan de olika åsikterna ännu större. Om någon befinner sig i gränslandet så får den personen ingen hjälp av artikeln att vända ryggen till tron på en platt jord, eftersom argumenten för en platt jord inte berördes och därför lever vidare intakta.

Det finns en organisation som heter The flat earth society. De är inte trovärdiga. Det kanske du redan visste, men visste du att de inte ens är trovärdiga bland sanna plattjordanhängare? De sistnämnda anser att denna organisations målsättning är att förvirra och förvärra situationen för plattjordanhängarna, och de som arbetar för organisationen anses vara s.k. ”shills” och motståndare. För att vara ärlig i sin kamp att motbevisa att jorden är platt så borde man därför basera sitt resonemang på de bästa websidorna, youtubefilmerna eller organisationerna som står till buds och som har störst anseende bland anhängarna själva. På liknande sätt borde kreationister som vill motbevisa evolutionsteorin använda sig utav de främsta evolutionskällorna – vilket också görs.

Vill du veta hur människor som tror på en platt jord resonerar? Se en film eller två!

Jag har tyckt att det varit oerhört intressant att lyssna/se på plattjordfilmer. Man får lära sig en hel del om Antarktis, GPS-systemet, månens dragningskraft, midnattssol, polstjärnan, etc. Att bevisa att jorden är en glob och roterar är inte så lätt som man skulle kunna tro. Nedan korta film är från globanhängare och visar hur jorden både roterar och rusar genom rymden under sin färd runt solen. Plattjordanhängare har svårt att tro på detta (och att stjärnkonstellationer under hela resan aldrig förlorar sina positioner), i kombination med att de kräver att se någon form av bevis för jordens rundning. (Det finns även några som officiellt erbjudit stora summor pengar till någon som kan ge dem bevis.) Vidare är de inte nöjda med att kontinenter på jordklotet presenteras med så drastiskt olika storlekar beroende på glob/karta (ibland är Grönlands dimension nästan lika stort som Afrika, ibland pyttelitet, etc). Själva erkänner de gärna att de är osäkra på exaktheten hos kontinenters dimensioner och placering, men brukar oftast basera sina exempel på den s.k. Gleasons karta.

Ett stort skäl att folk börjat tro på en platt jord är proffsiga youtubefilmer som börjat dyka upp de senaste åren. Den första är av Eric Dubay, och om det endast är en enda film som du kan tänka dig att se så måste jag nog rekommendera denna film – trots att jag verkligen inte delar hans  livssyn och trosuppfattning. Argumenten som presenteras i filmen är korta och lättförståeliga, och vill man gå in på detaljer så får man alltså leta upp andra filmer (hans egna eller andra) för att studera mer. Lyckligtvis håller sig Eric till ämnet i denna film och vi slipper även svordomar. Eftersom filmen är indelad i 200 korta argument så är det lätt att bromsa filmen där det passar och fortsätta vid ett annat tillfälle.

Här nedan kommer Mark Sargent‘s film som är väldigt berömd:

Vidare vill jag även visa en film från Jeran Campanella (från hans kanal jeranism).

Liksom i ”globkretsen” så har man inom ”plattjordkretsen” olika trosuppfattningar och åsikter. Var alltså noga med att inte dra alla över en kam. Alla dessa tre killar har producerat en mängd andra filmer på sina youtubekanaler, och många är intressanta oavsett om man tror på en platt eller rund jord. Samtliga har gjort egna undersökningar och experiment om jorden som de visar upp i filmform. Det gäller även Rob Skiba, som har en kristen tro (men heller ingen person som jag kan säga att jag håller med). Du kan söka på youtube för att komma till hans kanal, och där kan du söka upp de filmer som berör just jordens form. Ett annat namn är Brian Mullin som har rätt bakgrund för att göra intressanta experiment på sin youtubekanal. Bland plattjordanhängare finns agnostiker, kristna och andra religioner representerade. Det verkar däremot inte finnas några renodlade ateister – kanske för att det är svårt att vara ateist samtidigt som man tror att jorden är fullständigt unik och uppvisar storartad design.

De flesta av dessa filmmakare uppmanar ivrigt folk att korrigera deras matematik eller resonemang så att de kan rätta till eventuella felaktigheter. Det handlar inte om falska uppmaningar, utan dessa personer vill verkligen bli korrigerade om de misstagit sig och presenterat något som inte stämmer med fakta. Det vanligaste problemet är att människor kritiserar resonemang och slutsatser baserade på halmgubbar. Kritikerna har alltså varit för snabba med sin kritik då de inte tagit sig tid att studera plattjordanhängarnas modell.

Att tro att månlandningarna var en bluff går utmärkt att göra utan att behöva tro att jorden är platt (men omvänt går förstås inte). Väldigt få människor behöver ha känt till bluffen. Exempelvis så behövde ingen av de mängder av människor i Houston ha känt till att det som utspelade sig på deras dataskärmar inte handlade om verklig data. Jag kan verkligen rekommendera Bart Sibrels film ”A funny thing happened on the way to the moon” i ämnet, och han bevisar t o m med hur man bluffar med att komma halvvägs till månen. Se gärna fejkade månfoton från denna websida. Bart är kristen och sätter sin tro främst i sitt liv, men jag kan också rekommendera att du söker upp Jarrah White på youtube (Moonfaker) eller webben, trots att han är ateist. Hans material om månlandningen är proffsig. Vi har även fotografen Marcus Allen som påvisar en rad anomalier vad gäller månfoton i denna film. Ingen av dessa nämnda tror att jorden är platt. Däremot att månlandningarna var en bluff, och jag håller verkligen med.

Vad säger Bibeln om jordens form och placering?

Här följer slutligen några verser från Bibeln (utan kommentarer) om jordens rund, det separerande himlavalvet som stjärnorna placerades i, pelarna som jorden placerats på, etc. Jag kan även rekommendera Enoks bok för att se fler detaljer (som inte motsätter Bibelns information.)

1 Mos. 1:1 I begynnelsen skapade Gud himmel och jord. 2 Jorden var öde och tom, och mörker var över djupet. Och Guds Ande svävade över vattnet.3 Gud sade: ”Varde ljus!” Och det blev ljus. 4 Gud såg att ljuset var gott, och han skilde ljuset från mörkret. 5 Gud kallade ljuset dag, och mörkret kallade han natt. Och det blev afton och det blev morgon. Det var den första dagen.6 Gud sade: ”Varde mitt i vattnet ett valv som skiljer vatten från vatten!” Gud gjorde valvet och skilde vattnet under valvet från vattnet ovan valvet. Och det skedde så. Gud kallade valvet himmel. Och det blev afton och det blev morgon. Det var den andra dagen.9 Gud sade: ”Vattnet under himlen skall samlas till en enda plats så att det torra blir synligt.” Och det skedde så. 14 Gud sade: ”Varde på himlavalvet ljus som skiljer dagen från natten!” De skall vara tecken som utmärker särskilda tider, dagar och år, 15 och de skall vara ljus på himlavalvet som lyser över jorden.” Och det skedde så. 16 Gud gjorde de två stora ljusen, det större att härska över dagen och det mindre att härska över natten, likaså stjärnorna. 17 Han satte dem på himlavalvet till att lysa över jorden, 18 till att härska över dagen och natten och till att skilja ljuset från mörkret. Och Gud såg att det var gott. 

Job 9:6 han som får jorden att vackla från sin plats och dess PELARE att bäva,7 han som befaller solen att inte gå upp och förseglar stjärnorna,8 han som ensam spänner ut himlarna
och skrider fram över havets rygg, 9 han som har gjort Karlavagnen och Orion, Sjustjärnorna
och söderns stjärnbilder

Job 22:12 Bor inte Gud i himlens höjd? Och se på stjärnorna däruppe, hur högt de sitter!
13 Och du säger: ”Vad kan Gud veta? Kan han döma genom detta töcken?14 Molnen bildar en slöja så att han inte ser, och på himlavalvet vandrar han.”

Job 26:7 Han spänner ut himlen i norr över det tomma, han hänger upp jorden på intet.
8 Han samlar upp vatten i sina moln, och skyarna brister inte under bördan.9 Han gömmer sin tron för vår åsyn, han höljer den med sina skyar.10 En välvd horisont har han satt över vattnen, där ljuset gränsar mot mörkret.11 Himlens pelare skälver, de häpnar över hans bestraffningar.

Job 28:24 Ty han skådar till jordens ändar, han ser allting under himlen.

Job 37:3 Han sänder ut det över hela himlen, sina blixtar till jordens ändar.18 Kan du, med honom, breda ut skyarna som ett valv, fast som en spegel av gjuten metall?

Job 38:4 Var fanns du när jag lade jordens grundSvara, om du har så stort förstånd.5 Vem har bestämt hennes mått – du vet! Och vem spände mätsnöret över den?6 Var fick hennes grundpelare sina fästen? Vem lade hennes hörnsten,—12 Har du, sedan dina dagar började,befallt dagen att gryoch anvisat morgonrodnaden en plats13 där den kunde fatta jorden i dess hörn,så att de ogudaktiga skakades bort från den?

Psalm 18:16 Vattnens bäddar kom i dagen, jordens grundvalar blev synliga för din näpst, Herre, för din vredes stormvind.

Psalm 19:1 Himlarna vittnar om Guds härlighet, himlavalvet förkunnar hans händers verk.—3 Den ena dagen talar om det för den andra, den ena natten kungör det för den andra,4 utan tal och utan ord, deras röst hörs inte. 5 De når ut över hela jorden, deras ord når till världens ände. Åt solen har han gjort en hydda i dem, 6 den är som en brudgum som går ut ur sin kammare, den gläder sig som en hjälte att löpa sin banaDen går upp vid himlens ena ände
och går sin kretsgång till den andra. Ingenting undgår dess hetta.

Psalm 75:4 Jorden och alla som bor där kan vackla, men jag har gjort dess pelare stadiga.” Sela.

Psalm 93:1 Herren är konung! Han har klätt sig i höghet. Herren har klätt sig och rustat sig med makt. Därför står världen fast, den vacklar inte.

Psalm 96:10 Säg bland folken: ” Herren är konung! Därför står världen fast och vacklar inte.
Han dömer folken med rättvisa.”

Psalm 104:2 Insvept i ljus som i en mantel, spänner du ut himlen som ett tält.3 Du timrar på vattnen dina salar, molnen gör du till din vagn, du far på vindens vingar.—5 Du grundade jorden på dess fästen, så att den ej vacklar till evig tid.6 Med djupet täckte du den som med en klädnad, upp över bergen stod vattnen.

Psalm 136:6 han som har brett ut jorden över vattnenty hans nåd varar i evighet, 7 han som har gjort de stora ljusen, ty hans nåd varar i evighet,8 solen till att råda om dagen,  ty hans nåd varar i evighet,månen och stjärnorna till att råda om natten, ty hans nåd varar i evighet

Ords. 8: 27 När han beredde himmelen, var jag tillstädes, när han spände ett valv över djupet,28 när han fäste skyarna i höjden, när djupets källor bröto fram med makt (1917) (27 — drew a circle on the face of the deep, NKJV)

Jesaja 11:12 Han skall resa ett baner för hednafolken och samla de fördrivna av Israel och de kringspridda av Juda från jordens fyra hörn.

Jesaja 13:10 Ty himlens stjärnor och stjärnbilder sänder inte mer sitt ljus. Solen går upp mörk, och månens ljus lyser inte.1—13 Därför skall jag få himlen att darra, och jorden att gunga och skaka i sina grundvalar -genom Herren Sebaots förbittring, på hans brinnande vredes dag. (10. — the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, KJV)

Jesaja 38:8 Se, jag skall låta skuggan på trappstegen gå tillbaka de tio steg som den har flyttat sig på Ahas trappa med solen.Solen gick då tillbaka tio av de steg på trappan som den redan hade gått.

Jesaja 40:22 Han är den som tronar över jordens rund, och dess inbyggare äro såsom gräshoppor; han är den som utbreder himmelen såsom ett flor och spänner ut den såsom ett tält att bo inunder. (1917) (sitteth upon the circle of the earthKJV)

Jesaja 43:6 Jag skall säga till länderna i norr: ”Ge hit!” och till södern: ”Håll dem inte tillbaka! För hit mina söner fjärran ifrån och mina döttrar från jordens ände

Jesaja 44:24 Så säger Herren, din återlösare, han som format dig alltifrån moderlivet:
Jag, Herren, är den som har gjort allt, den som ensam har spänt ut himlen och brett ut jorden Vem var med mig?

Jesaja 45:12 Det är jag som har gjort jorden och skapat människorna på den. Det är mina händer som har spänt ut himlen, och hela dess här har jag givit befallning.

Jesaja 48:13 Min hand har lagt jordens grund, min högra hand har spänt ut himlen. Jag kallade på dem, då stod de där.

Jesaja 66:1 Så säger Herren: Himlen är min tron och jorden min FOTAPALL. Vad för ett hus kanfootstool.jpg ni bygga åt mig, vad för en plats där jag kan vila?

Hesekiel 1:26 Ovanför valvet över deras huvuden syntes något som liknade en tron gjord av safirsten. På det som liknade en tron satt en gestalt som såg ut som en människa.

Amos 9:6 Det är han som bygger sin sal i himlen och har grundat sitt valv över jordenHan kallar på havets vatten och sprider ut det över jordens yta – Herren är hans namn. (face of the earth, KJV)

1 Samuel 2:8 Han reser den ringe upp ur stoftet, ur dyn lyfter han upp den fattige för att sätta honom bland furstar. Ja, han låter honom ärva härlighetens tron. Ty jordens grundpelare är Herrens, och på dem har han byggt världen.

2 Samuel 22:16 Havets bäddar kom i dagen, jordens grundvalar blev synliga, genom Herrens näpst,  för hans vredes stormvind.

1 Krön. 16:30 tillbed Herren i helig skrud. Bäva inför honom, alla länder. Jorden står fast, den kan inte rubbas.

Daniel 4:7 Detta var den syn jag hade på min bädd: Jag såg i min syn ett träd stå mitt på jorden, och det var mycket högt. 8 Trädet var stort och väldigt och så högt att det räckte upp till himlen och syntes till jordens ände. 9 Lövverket var vackert och trädet bar mycket frukt så att det hade föda åt alla. Markens djur fann skugga under det och himlens fåglar bodde på grenarna. Allt levande fick sin mat från det.

Predikaren 1:5 Solen går upp och solen går ner och skyndar sedan åter till den plats
där den går upp.6 Vinden far mot söder och vänder sig mot norr. Den vänder sig ständigt på sin färd fram och börjar sitt kretslopp på nytt.

Matteus 4:8 Därefter tog djävulen honom upp på ett mycket högt berg och visade honom alla riken i världen och deras härlighet. 9 Och han sade: ”Allt detta vill jag ge dig, om du faller ner och tillber mig.”

Matteus 24:31 Med starkt basunljud skall han sända ut sina änglar, och de skall samla hans utvalda från de fyra väderstrecken, från himlens ena ända till den andra.

Upp.1:7 Se, han kommer med molnen, och varje öga skall se honom, även de som har genomborrat honom, och alla jordens stammar skall jämra sig över honom. Ja, amen.

Upp. 6:13 Himlens stjärnor föll ner på jorden, som när ett fikonträd fäller sina omogna frukter, när det skakas.

Upp. 7:1 Sedan såg jag fyra änglar stå vid jordens fyra hörn och hålla tillbaka jordens fyra vindar, så att ingen vind skulle blåsa över jorden eller över havet eller mot något träd. 

Upp. 20: 8 Och han skall gå ut för att bedra folken vid jordens fyra hörn, Gog och Magog, och samla dem till striden, och deras antal är som sanden i havet.

Joshua 10:12 På den dagen då Herren gav amoreerna i israeliternas våld, talade Josua till Herren inför hela Israel: ”Du sol, stå stilla i Gibeon, du måne, i Ajalons dal!”13 Och solen stod stilla och månen blev stående, till dess folket hämnats på sina fiender. Detta står skrivet i ”Den redliges bok”. Solen blev stående mitt på himlen och gjorde sig ingen brådska att gå ner för att fullborda dagen. 

Habakkuk 3:11 Sol och måne står stilla i sin boning vid skenet av dina pilar som far fram, vid glansen av ditt blixtrande spjut.12 I förbittring går du fram över jorden, i vrede trampar du ner hednafolken.