Tag Archive | jesus

Lucifer, the morning star, who is Satan and the devil – Isaiah 14:12

satan”And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven” Luke 10:18

Satan in the New Testament is a translation from the Greek masculine noun Σατανᾶς (Satanas, Strong’s 2567) corresponding to Σατάν (Satan, 4566). He is understood as the accuser, i.e. the devil and an adversary (one who opposes someone in purpose or act). He is the name given to the prince of evil spirits who  encourages people to sin and incites apostasy from God. He is also believed to be in control of his demons (spirits of fallen angels) who can take possession of people and inflict them with diseases. Satan will be overcome on Christ’s return from heaven and bound with chains for a thousand years. When this time has passed he will walk the earth yet again, but will eventually be given over to eternal punishment. According to Blueletterbible Satan is used 27 times in the KJV (Strong’s 7854).

The question is then if Satan is the same as Lucifer, which is an expression found in Is. 14:12 and is a latin translation of the Hebrew word heylel (Strong’s 1966) – used once in the Bible. The expression ”Lucifer, Son of the morning” (KJV) is the translation from heylel ben Shachar (Strong’s 1966, 1121, 7837). The English translation Lucifer derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, which holds the meaning of light-bearer, the shining one, the morning-star, and apart from a good description of Satan (before he fell) it is a close connection to the king of Babylon based on the passage in Isaiah. The unnamed King of Babylon in chapter 14 is condemned in a prophetic vision and is called the ”morning star” (Venus is ”wandering star” visible at dawn). It could be a description of an attempt to usurp kingly power, like the failed regency of Belshazzar. Much like Satan, who did the same thing (see Ezekiel below).

Unlike the English expression, the Latin words were not used exclusively to describe this particular person in Is. 14:12. Jerome’s latin translation in the Vulgate is not in error, and he did not use capital letters in the expression (thus not rendering it a personal name). The Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Old Testament) renders the same expression ἑωσφόρος (heōsphoros) which could be translated ”bringer of dawn”, which is not too far off from Jerome’s result.

If the bringer of light spoken about (lucem ferre) is not Satan, who is he, and why does the description of him sound like the background of Satan? The king of Babylon did not fall from heaven, but he seems to be compared to a shiny bring being falling from heaven.

Is. 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! (how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of THE PIT.16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

”The sons of God” below are angels (see article) and Satan came together with them to approach the Lord God. If Satan is the same as Lucifer, it makes sense that he might have this type of conversation with God. This conversation proves that Satan is a real being, and not an abstract principle such as ”sin”.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord. See also Job 2. 

More examples from the old testament that Satan can be a real person:

1 Chron. 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Ps. 109:6 Let thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

Zech. 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

But the same Hebrew word can also be used as a principle against God or a ”Satanic” (God-hating) being who acts on behalf of Satan:

2 Sa. 19:22 And David said, What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zeruiah, that ye should this day be adversaries unto me? shall there any man be put to death this day in Israel? for do not I know that I am this day king over Israel?

1 Ki. 5:4 But now the LORD my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary nor evil occurrent.

1 Ki. 11:14 And the LORD stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king’s seed in Edom.—23 And God stirred him up another adversary, Rezon the son of Eliadah, which fled from his lord Hadadezer king of Zobah — 25 And he was an adversary to Israel all the days of Solomon, beside the mischief that Hadad did: and he abhorred Israel, and reigned over Syria.

This reminds us of the New Testament idea that there are many antichrists but also a specific person/being called antichrist who will appear in the last time. An antichrist is a deceiver, and the highest form of deception is someone who acts against God – such as objecting to Jesus being the Christ and the Messiah (God in flesh). Satan is against Christ, so he is the antichrist.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

nephilim3

We also have the famous passage in Ez. 28, which is addressed to the prince/king of Tyrus, with a parallel to Satan who had a similar problem with pride and subsequent defeat and disaster. We can read about someone who has a heart which is lifted up (against God) because of his riches, someone claiming to be God, someone who is perfect in beauty, someone who is extraordinary BRIGHT (repeated several times), someone who shall be brought down to the pit, someone who has been in the garden of Eden covered in precious stones, someone who is a cherub (an angel) and created so by God, someone who was on the holy mountain of God, walking on stones of fire, someone who was perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him, someone who is cast to the ground by God due to his sin, someone who has corrupted his wisdom by due to his brightness, etc. Clearly this is not the prince of Tyrus, but a comparison can be made when it comes to pride and corruption – and it is also forming a prophesy.

Ez. 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:—5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee—12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 

The book of the secrets of Enoch (or Slavonic Enoch or 2 Enoch)

The book of Enoch (referred to in the Bible, so of high value) describes the look of the bright angels, and how one angel in particular is thrown out of heaven together with his subordinate angels. The reason for this ordeal is due to this angel’s proud attempt to be equal to God. We can recognize the description from the Bible, where it is describing Satan.

29:2 And from the rock I cut off a great fire, and from the fire I created the orders of the incorporeal ten troops of angels, and their weapons are fiery and their raiment a burning flame, and I commanded that each one should stand in his order.3 And one from out the order of angels, having turned away with the order that was under him, conceived an impossible thought, to place his throne higher than the clouds above the earth, that he might become equal in rank to my power.4 And I threw him out from the height with his angels, and he was flying in the air continuously above the bottomless.

31:4 The devil is the evil spirit of the lower places, as a fugitive he made Sotona from the heavens as his name was Satanail (Satan), thus he became different from the angels, (but his nature) did not change (his) intelligence as far as (his) understanding of righteous and sinful (things).5 And he understood his condemnation and the sin which he had sinned before, therefore he conceived thought against Adam, in such form he entered and seduced Eva (Eve), but did not touch Adam. 

The book of Enoch (or 1 Enoch, or Ethiopian Enoch)

86:1 And again I saw with mine eyes as I slept, Again I looked attentively, while sleeping, and I saw the heaven above, and surveyed heaven above. and behold a star fell from heaven, 2. And behold a single star fell from heaven. and it arose and eat and pastured amongst those oxen.—3 And again I saw in the vision, and looked towards the heaven, and behold I saw many stars descend and cast themselves down from heaven to that first star, and they became bulls amongst those cattle and pastured with them

88:1 And I saw one of those four who had come forth first, and he seized that first star which had fallen from the heaven and bound it hand and foot and cast it into an abyss: now that abyss was narrow and deep, and horrible and dark.

Origen interpreted such passages as being about manifestations of the devil, and so did  Tertullian. Calvin and Luther, on the other hand, did not – which maybe is not surprising considering the multitudes of new doctrines they have invented.

Jesus is the morning star 

Jesus is also called the morning star, because he is our true permanent bright LIGHT, and he will never lose his brightness the way Satan did. In the new Jerusalem there will not a need for the sun since the lamb (Jesus Christ) will be our light.

The mention of the morning star in the Bible:

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.—7 When the morning stars (boqer Strong’s 1242 + kowkab Strong’s 3556) sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

2 Pet. 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Rev. 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.28 And I will give him the morning star.

Rev. 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Why are both Satan and Jesus Christ both resembling a morning star? Satan seems to have been the brightest of angels before his fall, and he has been chasing the son of God ever since the first pages of the Bible, where we can read about God’s prophesy ”I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel” (Gen. 3:15).

We can also read about the seed in Daniel which seems to be saying that in the last days seeds will be mixed inappropriately just like they were (due to the fallen angels) prior to the flood (described both in the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher, both books mentioned in the Bible) and which caused God to let the whole earth be covered with water. The next time the earth will be affected by fire.

Dan. 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Scientists are already now making advanced experimentations with mixing of seeds/sperms. (If you want to read more about the situation with the disastrous mixing of animals before the flood, you can read more in the previously mentioned books.)

satan-i-kampThe beast in the bottomless pit – who was, is not and yet is

Something else that will happen during the same time is something extraordinary. Someone called Apollyon is presently trapped in the bottomless pit. This place has not yet been discovered during a hike or on the way to work, but some Christians (like Stephen Quayle) believe this pit is situated in Antarctica. Apollyon is believed to have multiple names, and one speculation is Nimrod. (In order to not go down the rabbit hole and make this article too long, I will leave it at that.) Apollyon is described as both a beast and an angel, and also a king and leader of the below described ”locusts”.

Rev. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.— 11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Rev. 11:And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.— 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Satan in the New Testament

We can read about the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience in Eph. 2:2, the devil disputing with Michael about the body of Moses (Jude 1:9) and most importantly the dragon of the Book of Revelation ”who is called the devil and Satan” (Revelation 12:9; 20:2).

Matt. 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Matt. 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Mark 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satancast out Satan? — 26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Matt. 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Mark. 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

Mark 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Luke 12:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

1 Cor. 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Cor. 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

2 Cor. 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

2 Cor. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2 Cor. 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

1 Thess. 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

2 Thess. 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

2 Tim. 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

1 Tim. 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

Rev. 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.—13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.—24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Rev. 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Rev. 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Freemasonry?

The Taxil hoax is named after Léo Taxil (1854–1907) who claimed that the freemason Albert Pike promoted the idea that Lucifer was God and in opposition to the evil god Adonai. Freemasonry Disclosed,  1897:

”With frightening cynicism, the miserable person we shall not name here [Taxil] declared before an assembly especially convened for him that for twelve years he had prepared and carried out to the end the most sacrilegious of hoaxes. We have always been careful to publish special articles concerning Palladism and Diana Vaughan. We are now giving in this issue a complete list of these articles, which can now be considered as not having existed.”

Jesus was not against organized religion according to the Bible

church 4”Organized religion” could be a church gathering with certain basic rules

Sometimes believers try to justify their separation from other Christians, as well as church meetings, with the idea that Jesus was against organized religion. The Bible says no such thing.

During the time of the apostles Christians often met in their homes, which makes sense since they could not always take over Jewish synagogues and start having assemblies there (but sometimes they did). The climate is usually very warm in the Middle East and this means that people often could gather outside, like on top of their buildings to make room for more people. Where I live (Sweden) it is a totally different matter, and it is a huge advantage if Christians have access to a large building in order to assemble several families who can worship together in a practical way. Hence, the idea of a large building with the very suitable name ”church” – since the building is supposed to be a place where Christian believers assemble. ἐκκλησία (ekklesia, Strong’s 1577) is often translated church and could mean an ”assembly of believers”. (An assembly of Christian believers or a church building are not necessarily Babylon ….)

Naturally a certain amount of rules must be implemented in order for everyone to have a pleasant time together in their worship. The Bible (particularly the book of Acts), gives us some details how such meetings could work out and why they are even needed. A church meeting (an assembly with Christians) provides a chance for everyone to hear sermons (from a pastor), to sing worship songs together, to hear prophesies, to get healed, to edify each other, etc. These things must logically be made in a certain order to avoid total chaos.

It is true that Christ is in our midst if 2-3 persons gather in his name, but 1) let us at least do that, and 2) this does not diminish the importance of having Christian assemblies with even more believers.

Matt. 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them

1 Cor. 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

Some Bible verses about gathering with Christians under structured conditions

It may not be a salvational matter to assemble with other Christians (and sometimes it is not even possible or preferable for various reasons), but it can be very edifying both for you and others. Maybe you believe that you know best anyway so why let some pastors speak and hold sermons you might disagree with? In that case, maybe you can enlighten fellow lost believers (like after the sermon in order to not disturb the peace). Or perhaps you are the one who needs to be enlightened after all. If you are only willing to attend a church meeting where you agree with the pastor about everything, then you will have to continue spending your Sundays alone. A church meeting is not solely there due to the sermons, but in order to have fellowship with other Christians, to sing worship songs together, etc.

Hebrews 10:24-25 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching  

Below we get advice for church meetings:

Ja. 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool

Ja. 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

The ”laying on of hands” means to officially confirm a qualified person as an elder, which is an important task done by another elder. This is indeed ”organized religion”, and if everyone had obeyed Paul’s advice in selecting elders all would be well. Unfortunately Paul himself knew that there would be believers who would deviate from his teaching rather soon.

Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:—7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;—9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 

1 Tim. 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Below we can read about ”organized religion” in the book of Acts. 

Acts 2:41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and FELLOWSHIP, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles44And all that believed WERE TOGETHER, and had all things COMMON; 45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the TEMPLE, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

We can see above that Christians had fellowship with each other in the same place. Notice that 3000 people were saved and added to them the day in question. Baptism and breaking bread with others could not be possible unless Christians assembled together. Neither would signs and wonders have a large impact on people unless they were seen by others. Christians did not abandon the temple, even though they could of course assemble also in their homes.

When Paul was out travelling, he knew there were Christian assemblies that he could meet up with. We can see below that believers met together during a certain day and time, were taught in the temple and in homes, we can read about structured purifications and offerings,

Acts 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the TEMPLE at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.

Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the TEMPLE, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 2Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

Acts 4:19 But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said, 20Go, stand and speak in the TEMPLE to the people all the words of this life.

Acts 4:42 And daily in the TEMPLE, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Acts 9:19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. 20And straightway he preached Christ in the SYNAGOGES, that he is the Son of God.— 26And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. 

Acts 13:4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus. 5And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the SYNAGOGES of the Jews: and they had also JOHN TO THEIR MINISTER.-–14But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the SYNAGOGUE on the sabbath day, and sat down. 15And after the reading of the law and the prophets the RULERS of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and BRETHREN, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.–

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the SYNAGOGUE, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Acts 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium that together they both went into the SYNAGOGUE of the Jews, and so spoke that a great multitude of both the Jews and also of the GREEKS believed.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the SYNAGOGUE every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the GREEKS.— 7And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man’s house, named Justus, one that worshipped God,whose house joined hard to the synagogue.8And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a SYNAGOGUE of the Jews:2And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,—10And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.—-17Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

Acts 18:19 And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the SYNAGOGUE, and reasoned with the Jews. —22And when he had landed at Caesarea, and gone up, and saluted the church, he went down to Antioch.— 26And he began to speak boldly in the SYNAGOGUE: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: 28For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,—8And he went into the SYNAGOGUE, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. 9But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus. 10And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.— 

Acts 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the TEMPLE, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. 27And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the TEMPLE, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,

Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the TEMPLE, I was in a trance;18And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me. 19And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every SYNAGOGUE them that believed on thee:

Acts 24:11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship. 12And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:—18Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the TEMPLE, neither with multitude, nor with tumult.

church9Church (ekklesia) is sometimes used in CONTRAST to a group of individual believers!

1 Tim. 5:3 Honour widows that are widows indeed. 4But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God. — 9Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man. 10Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work. 11But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;—16If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church (ekklesia) be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed. 17Let the ELDERS (presbyteroi) that rule well be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.—19Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses20Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Above, Paul gives instructions to the assembly of christians (the church) concerning the treatment of widows, and he advised them to preferably take care of their own family members (like widows) rather than having the church providing for them. In that way the church could focus on those with the most urgent needs. Apparently taking care of widows was one of many functions that the church had during this time. Paul also provided regulations concerning treatments of church elders, again indicating that christian meetings were ”organized”.

3 John 1:6 Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well: — 9I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. 10Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

The man Diotrephes refused to receive the brethren and he even cast them out of the CHURCH. So the true brethren are mentioned in contrast with the Church. The wicked person (in the church) cast them out of the church.

Acts 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church (ekklesian), and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.—

If we can never say ”I’m going to church” because we as christians are always the church wherever we go, then neither does the above verse make any sense. Here we can read that Paul, Barnabas etc were ”received” by the church. It is better to receive godly men into church, instead of casting them out as Diotrephes did.

1 Cor. 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.2Now I praise you, brethren,that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. —4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.—16But if any man seem to be contentious, WE have no such custom, NEITHER the churches of God. 17Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. 18For first of all, when ye come together in the churchI hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 19For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifestamong you20When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper. 21For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 22What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.—30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.—33Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. 34And if any man hunger, let him eat at homethat ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

Above Paul contrasts (differentiates) ”we” with ”the church”. He is also talking about ”when ye come together in the Church”, which sounds like a physical place. Paul takes for granted that we are going away when we ”come together in the church” because he complains about people who take the chance to eat a lot of food while being in the church. Paul asks ”have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?” and ”if any man hunger, let him eat AT HOME”.

1 Cor. 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands AT HOME: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Paul says above women should be silent in a teaching situation in church (not when it comes to singing, making prophesies, translating tongues, etc) and in this instance he is speaking of a certain place (away from home) and not a metaphor for believing people because he then gives permission for them to speak at home.

1 Cor.16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.— 15I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,) 16That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth. 17I am glad of the coming of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus: for that which was lacking on your part they have supplied. 18For they have refreshed my spirit and yours: therefore acknowledge ye them that are such.19The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house. 

2 Cor 8:4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.—  19And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:— 

We are supposed to be the body of Christ, which means many members with many gifts and talents. God has set some in the church (the body of Christian members) to be apostles, prophets, teachers, etc. Paul speaks about the importance to use the spiritual gifts in a certain order – in an organized way.

1 Cor. 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.— 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Cor. 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.— So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.— 11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. —16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.—  23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 

Here is a similar article about the same topic.

Bibeln om vår ”onda natur” och ”kött” i SFB, samt arvsynden som är obiblisk

babyArvsynden är ingenting som Bibeln lär ut och inte de äldsta kyrkofäderna

Bibeln hävdar inte att vår natur eller vårt kött är syndigt i sig självt. Bibeln förklarar tydligt vad synd innebär. Nämligen att bryta mot Guds lag – att vara olydig mot hans bud (1 Joh.3:4 ) – vilket är något man gör. Därför kan vi inte hävda något annat – t ex att synd är att bli människa då vi alltså första gången producerar det kött som är våra jordiska kroppar. Det skulle innebära att vi är syndiga redan i magen, ja redan som foster och egentligen redan som embryon. Men varför skulle vi förarga Gud bara genom att finnas till i vårt kött, som heller inte är vårt eget fel? Så här snurrigt kan det bli om man tror på arvsynden (eller syndarvet), som ursprungligen är en gnostisk lära som Augustinus (före detta gnostiker) gjorde populär inom kyrkan.

Olyckliga formuleringar i SFB om Natur och Kött

Svenska Folkbibeln är ofta bättre och mer lättförståelig än 1917 års översättning (men inte lika bra som Reformationsbibeln). När det gäller människans natur, vårt kött och syndarvet så är 1917 års översättning bättre än SFB. Här nedan följer några olyckliga formuleringar, där t ex SFB valt att lägga till ordet ”ond” ihop med natur, trots att adjektiv inte står att finnas på grundspråket. I stället för ”ond natur” hade en bättre översättning varit ”kött” kort och gott. Pga den formuleringar kan läsarna få för sig att vår naturen eller vårt kött är ont i sig självt.

Ond natur” är i SFB en översättning av grekiska σάρξ (sarx, Strong’s 4561) som betyder KÖTT eller kropp (inte ont kött eller ond natur) vilket är precis samma sorts kött som Jesus hade. Att översätta ett och samma ord för ”kött” när det är relaterat till Jesus, och till ”ont kött/ond natur” när det är relaterat till människor är helt omotiverat.

SFB: a) Rom 8:12 Vi har alltså skyldigheter, bröder, men inte mot vår onda natur, så att vi skall leva efter köttet

Bättre: Rom. 8:12 Alltså, mina bröder, hava vi icke någon förpliktelse mot KÖTTET, så att vi skola leva efter KÖTTET. (1917)

SFB: b) Rom 7:5 Ty så länge vi behärskades av vår onda natur, var de syndiga begär som väcktes till liv genom lagen verksamma i våra lemmar, så att vi bar frukt åt döden

Bättre: Rom. 7:5 For when we were IN THE FLESH, the MOTIONS OF SINS, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. (KJV)

SFB: c) Gal. 5:13 Ni är kallade till frihet, bröder. Använd bara inte friheten så att den onda naturen får något tillfälle, utan tjäna varandra i kärlek

Bättre: Gal 5:13 I ären ju kallade till frihet, mina bröder; bruken dock icke friheten så, att KÖTTET får något tillfälle. Fastmer mån I tjäna varandra genom kärleken. (1917)

SFB d) Ef. 2:3:3 Bland dem var vi alla en gång, när vi följde våra syndiga begär och gjorde vad köttet och sinnet ville. Av naturen var vi vredens barn, vi liksom de andra.

Bättre: Ef. 2:3 Bland dessa voro förut också vi allasammans, där vi vandrade i vårt KÖTTS begärelser och gjorde vad köttet och sinnet ville; och vi voro genom vår natur hemfallna åt vredesdomen, vi likasom de andra. (1917)

eller: Ef. 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (KJV)

SFB: e) Rom. 8:3 Det som var omöjligt för lagen, svag som den var genom den syndiga naturen, det gjorde Gud genom att sända sin egen Son som syndoffer, han som till det yttre var lik en syndig människa, och i hans kropp fördömde Gud synden.

Bättre: Rom. 8:Ty det som lagen icke kunde åstadkomma, i det den var försvagad genom KÖTTET, det gjorde Gud, då han, för att borttaga synden, sände sin Son i syndigt kötts gestalt och fördömde synden i köttet. (1917)

SFB: f) Rom. 8:8 De som följer sin syndiga natur kan inte behaga Gud.

Bättre: Rom. 8:So then they that are in the FLESH cannot please God. (KJV)

SFB: g) Kol. 2:11 I honom blev också ni omskurna, inte med människohand, utan med Kristi omskärelse, då ni avkläddes er syndiga natur

Bättre: Kol 2:11 I honom haven I ock blivit omskurna genom en omskärelse, som icke skedde med händer, en som bestod däri att I bleven avklädda eder KÖTTSLIGA KROPP; jag menar omskärelsen i Kristus. (1917)

SFB: h) Rom. 7:7 Vad skall vi då säga? Att lagen är synd? Nej, visst inte! Men det var först genom lagen jag lärde känna synden. Jag hade inte vetat vad begäret var, om inte lagen hade sagt: Du skall inte ha begär.

Bättre: Rom. 7:What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not COVET. (KJV)

Svenska Folkbibeln har alltså felaktigt lagt till ord som inte finns i grundtexten, och därmed gjort verserna mer svårgreppade. 1917 års översättning har  lyckats bättre eftersom ”ond natur” inte finns med i någon av dessa verser och inte heller i Reformationsbibeln.

Vad gäller Rom. 8:3 så är det det enda stället i Bibeln där det står något om ”syndigt kött/natur” och vi kan läsa att Jesus kom ”i syndigt kötts gestalt och fördömde synden i köttet”. När han var tillsammans med sin Fader i treenigheten så hade han inte en kropp att synda med och heller ingen kapacitet att synda eftersom Gud inte kan gå emot sin egen rättfärdiga natur, men när Jesus kom som människa till jorden så hade han plötsligt kött liksom vi och kunde därmed synda precis som vilken människa som helst. Däremot så vet vi att Jesus trots detta valde att INTE synda! Det är därför en bra beskrivning att Jesus kom ”i syndigt kötts gestalt”, för det är ju med köttet som en människa kan utföra synd – och det var ”i syndigt kötts liknelse” som han kom. Det går inte att använda denna vers som stöd att vi alla är födda i synd, eftersom versen handlar om Jesus val att komma till jorden i ett likadant kött som oss.

Slutligen finns det ett annat grekiskt ord som kan översättas med ”natur”, nämligen φύσις (phusis, Strong’s 5449), och som förekommer 14 gånger i KJV. Exempel:

Rom. 1:26 Därför utlämnade Gud dem till skamliga lidelser. Deras kvinnor bytte ut det naturliga umgänget mot det onaturliga.

Rom. 2:14 Ty när hedningar som saknar lagen, av naturen gör vad lagen befaller, då är de sin egen lag, fastän de inte har lagen.

Gal. 2:15 5 Vi själva är visserligen judar till födelsen och inga hedniska syndare.

Intressant att hedningar sägs ”av naturen” kunna göra det lagen befaller. Tvärt emot arvsynden som hävdar något annat.

Romarbrevet 5, som många hävdar lär ut arvsynden

Rom. 5:12 säger att ”döden” (inte synden) kom över alla människor, och även varför det är så. För att de syndat. Inte för att Adam syndade och de ärvt hans synd.

När det gäller Rom 5:18 är många jättesnabba att läsa in en arvsynd i texten eftersom det står att ”alla” blir fördömda pga en endas fall (Adams fall) vilket alltså skulle innebära att de är syndare per automatik pga Adam. OK, och hur rimmar det med resten av meningen som säger att en endas rättfärdighet (Jesus rättfärdighet) lett till ALLA människors frikännande? Sker även det per automatik för ”alla” människor? Om man tar sig friheten att lägga till ett villkor vad gäller frikännandet i Jesus (att vi inte blir frikända förrän vi omvänder oss och tror), så borde ett liknande villkor läggas in gällande Adam (att vi inte blir fördömda förrän vi syndar likt honom). Det rimmar väl med resten av skriften.

Rom. 5:18 har en parallelism som måste läsas på samma konsekventa sätt på båda sidor om kommatecknet. Om Adam automatiskt orsakar så att ALLA människor fördöms, så är det så att ALLA människor automatiskt blivit frikända genom Jesus. Men en sådan tolkning vet vi är fel eftersom alla människor inte blir frälsta. Det krävs omvändelse och tro för frälsning. Med andra ord så handlar Rom. 5-18-19 inte om någonting som sker automatiskt eller generellt för alla människor utan deras medverkan. Vi är inte syndare förrän vi syndar som Adam, och vi är inte rättfärdiga förrän vi renar oss i Jesu blod.

Rom 5:18 Alltså: liksom en endas fall ledde till fördömelse för ALLA människor, så har en endas rättfärdighet för ALLA människor lett till en frikännande dom som leder till liv. 19 Liksom de många stod som syndare på grund av en enda människas olydnad, så skulle också de många stå som rättfärdiga på grund av den endes lydnad.

De människor (alla) som står på det ena sidan av kommatecknet är precis samma människor (alla) som står på den andra sidan av kommatecknet. Många väljer dock att ändra ovan två verser så att de låter såhär:

Rom. 5:18 Alltså: liksom en endas fall ledde till fördömelse för alla människor, så har en endas rättfärdighet för NÅGRA människor lett till en frikännande dom som leder till liv. 19 Liksom de många stod som syndare på grund av en enda människas olydnad, så skulle också NÅGRA FÅ stå som rättfärdiga på grund av den endes lydnad.

De vill gärna få texten (v. 18) att säga att ALLA är syndiga i Adam men NÅGRA är rättfärdiga i Jesus. Men så säger inte texten! Texten säger ”alla” i båda fallen i v. 18.

”For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law”, Rom 2:12

works of the lawPeople can perform righteousness without having heard about the Bible content

The common question about the inhabitants in the jungle ”What about those who live in the jungle and who have never heard about the gospel?”

People are certainly not doomed due to the unfortunate circumstances of having been born in the jungle with no chance to hear about the gospel of Jesus Christ. Romans 2 tells us:

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;

1 Tim. 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a PURE HEART, and of a GOOD CONSCIENCE, and of faith unfeigned: 

Apparently people are able to naturally do the things contained in the law even though they do not have it written down for them. In this case it does not mean all the 613 Jewish laws containing many ceremonial aspects, but it does mean the law of love, or the law of God that has existed ever since the days of Adam and Eve. It has always been against nature to murder, steal, lie and commit adultery. On the question (from a young man) what one must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus did not say ”Just believe in me”, but he said:

Mark. 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Other versions of the same story:

Matt. 19:17 — if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 

Luke 10:26 — What is written in the law? how readest thou?27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

If you love God with all your heart, soul and strength and your neighbor as yourself, then you automatically also follow the other detailed commandments, to not murder, steal, lie, commit adultery and dishonor your parents. Adam and Eve were not only expected to not eat of the tree of knowledge, but both prior to their sin and afterwards they were expected to stand with their Creator and by doing so obey the basic commandments. The promise for us today is ”Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh” (Gal. 5:16). If we truly walk with God, we automatically obey his commandments. If we truly love God, we naturally obey him.

Also the people in the jungle know that there is a Creator (his divine attributes can clearly be seen in nature) and that it is wrong to treat others in a way that we would not like to be treated ourselves. To take another person’s life, or to steal, lie and cause someone to be jealous and sad, are things that our conscience will tell us are wrong. It is true that we can learn to make our conscience more flexible with time, but this does not change the fact that we are deviating from the law of love. Our upbringing, traditions and culture can affect our understanding and reasoning, but in the end we have all been given a conscience and God will judge us based on our thoughts and actions.

Rom. 1:18-32 makes it very clear that we have no excuse if we do not seek our Creator and do good:

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:  —28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Romans 2 and sinning without the lawfree will 2

It says in Rom. 2:1-3 that God will pay attention to how we judge others, and he will judge us accordingly – and most of all righteously. God can see the whole truth about our hearts. v. 5-8 continues to explain how God will judge us. If we want to escape his wrath on the day judgment (or the day of wrath), we must obey the truth and patiently do good. If we harden our hearts and do not obey the truth, we will be in big trouble unless we repent. This is about a spiritual life or death:

Rom. 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God. Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and WRATH

Paul continues to explain that it is actually the doers of the law who will be justified. Also gentiles can ”do” the law (without having the law) and this includes also people in the jungle:

Rom. 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

The NKJV renders v. 15: ”who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)”. 

Paul made a clear distinction between the Jewish law and the law of love (which has always been in force):

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, BUT KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Rom. 2 ends with Paul explaining to the Jews (who are the ones in focus in his letter since they are confused about the law) that gentiles can indeed fulfill the law – people who might not be circumcised but who do what the law says. It is the heart that counts (the inside) and not an outwardly circumcision.

Rom. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Jesus said (of course without suggesting that circumcision is a sin):

Matt. 23:25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

So do we not need Jesus since we could be saved without him? Yes of course we do. There is no forgiveness without the blood, and Jesus shed his blood for us as a final sacrifice once and for all (more in Hebrews). We have no authority to forgive ourselves for our own sins. The gospel about Jesus Christ urges people to repent from their sin and live in the light. People need to hear about Jesus and what he did for humanity. They need to understand the love that God has for us. Jesus is the living bread!

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Naturally we cannot believe in Jesus Christ if we have not heard about him:

Rom. 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

The law was the Jews’ schoolmaster to bring them to Christ, and when Christ came this detailed schoolmaster was no longer needed. Now our guide is rather the holy Spirit.

Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.—23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Rom. 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Ja. 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well

1 mos. 3Being saved prior to Jesus, in the Old Testament

People who lived prior to Jesus Christ made an entrance to earth as God in flesh could of course be saved without having heard about him. Naturally the people of Israel had heard about God their Creator, but Paul’s explanation in Romans 1-2 applies both for them and for the gentiles. Moreover, people who lived prior to Moses could of course be saved as well without having heard about the son of God. They too had laws to obey, despite the absence of commandments written on stone tablets. God said early about sin:

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, SIN lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and THOU SHALT RULE OVER HIM.

In Ezekiel we can find a good explanation how we can be saved. By believing in God and do good (just like in the New Testament):

Ez. 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: THE SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL DIE.5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, 8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, HE SHALL SURELY LIVE, saith the Lord God.13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.17 That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

You can see the same story in Ez. 33.

Använder du Gotquestions samt CARM som sökmotorer för bibelfrågor? Då får du KALVINISM!

calvinism 4Se upp för kalvinism och gnosticism

En del kristna kanske använder sig av websidorna gotqestions.org samt carm.org för att finna svar på diverse bibelfrågor och spörsmål om kristen tro. Ibland kan de även få lysande svar tillbaka via dessa sidor – t ex vad gäller stöd för treenigheten som är en klassisk kristen grundbult. Men det finns även stora risker att man serveras kalvinism om man söker svar för sina frågor, eftersom författarna för dessa sidor är just reformerta kalvinister och stödjer sig på doktrinerna bakom TULIP.

Är det så farligt med kalvinismen? Ja, tanken att Jesus endast dog för några få människor och att Gud inte gav alla en chans att bli frälsta är inte en smickrande eller sann bild av Gud. Inte heller att allting sker enligt Guds vilja – även synd – då människorna inte har en egen fri vilja separat från Guds vilja. Det finns inga existerande kalvinister som lyckats vara konsekventa med sin egen lära, och de flesta menar också att de är missförstådda och att kritiker förvrängt vad de tror på och inte lyckats beskriva deras teologi på ett korrekt sätt. Men även den lärde kalvinisten James White intygar på film att t o m barnvåldtäkt är predestinerat av Gud (eftersom ingenting kan ske emot Guds vilja), även om han i andra sammanhang hävdar något annat.

Jag säger inte att kalvinister inte är frälsta, men deras lära är helt tvärt emot Bibelns lära som presenterar Gud på ett helt annat sätt. Den Gud som kalvinister tillber och predikar om (som tvingar människor att födas med en ond natur och sedan skickar dem till helvetet för att de inte omvänt sig, vilket han personligen förvägrat dem chansen att göra) kan få många ateister att förbli just ateister.

Några andra websidor att varna för är desiringgod, gty samt aomin, som alla har kalvinismen som grund.

Här nedan är en intressant debatt mellan Jesse Morell (som är en öppen teist), samt Matt Slick (kalvinist som står bakom carm). Alla kalvinister är förstås inte som Matt Slick till sättet (han är ganska nedsättande och arrogant), men däremot finns många som delar hans TULIP-lära. Detta beror mycket pga populariteten hos just gotquestions och carm, vilka är websidor som idag dyker upp som de absolut främsta söksidorna för kristen apologetik. Ju mer de sprids, desto mer sprids också kalvinismen. Matt Slick har även en kalvinistisk variant på CARM som inte är lika känd (jag känner till den bara för att han visat den för mig), och där är han definitivt inte lika försiktig med att sprida kalvinismen som på huvudsidan där han uttrycker sig lite försiktigare för att kunna framstå som  mindre kontroversiell bland icke-kalvinister

Jag håller inte med professor Leighton Flowers (en föredetta kalvinist) när det handlar om arvsynden (som han tror på åtminstone till en del) men han är en lysande lärare när det gäller fri vilja och kalvinismens svagheter.

The pre-existence of Jesus with his Father before the foundation of the world

trinity 4The Alpha and Omega, the first and the last – a name claimed by both Jesus and GOD

Jesus claims to be the first, but surely God is the very first? This indicates that Jesus rightfully claims to be God, rather than being someone who confuses innocent Bible readers by apparently taking the role of someone he is not.

The son of God, Jesus Christ, was born in flesh by virgin Mary about 2000 years ago, but it was his own prior choice and he had previously pre existed in a former state. Jesus pre existed before he became a man and walked upon the earth.

John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.— 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Sometimes the trinity is compared with an egg, consisting of the yolk, the white and the shell, where each part could be regarded as God the Father, God the son and God the holy Spirit. The weakness with this illustration is that each part is about 33% of the egg, whereas each person in the trinity (apart from being a separate part of the trinity) is each 100% God and definitely no half-gods. Maybe a better analogy might be one pile of sand split into three piles of sand. Each pile is 100% sand which is the original substance – even though there are even more original substance in existence. It is possible to start with one pile of sand, split it into more piles, and join the pile back together again. Maybe this analogy helps when reading poetic expressions about the son going forth from God which is the original starting point. This does not mean that Jesus started to exist in the moment he took the shape of a human being. Another analogy might be water being split into three puddles, or fire where you to take a lit candle and lit two more candles with it.

Maybe a business company can also help as an illustration. The ONE company might consist of three owners/employees who have mutually decided which role each one of them should have in the company. They might even decide which one of them that should take on the ”greater” role, and be the company’s official frontage. They might start out together on location but decide to let one of them make some business travelling in order to promote the company and get more customers. Another one might be responsible for the administration and the third one might be responsible for practical needs such as food supply and maintenance. We are still talking about ONE company.

Bible verses showing Jesus in the godheadonly god

The below verses are rather self-explanatory. Jesus existed before all things and by him were all things created, both visible and invisible. Is God something? Can he be filed under visible or invisible? Yes, so he could not have existed before Jesus, since Jesus was before all things and was first. If we understand Jesus to be God, however, there are no contradictions. God is eternal and has always existed before all things.

Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn (4416) of every creature:16 For BY HIM were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created BY HIM, and for him:17 And he is BEFORE all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn (4416) from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

So Jesus is the one who created all things with his own hands, and yet Jahve is said to have done the same thing (and that no one was with him). Again either we have a contradiction or Jesus is part of the trinity:

Hebr. 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands

Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Is. 42:5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Is 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.-— 18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

Jesus existence before came to earth as God in flesh:

Daniel 3:25 Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Micah 5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.

The Jews certainly understood what Jesus meant with the claim that he had seen Abraham (despite that Abraham lived before Jesus) and when Jesus used God’s name ”I am” on himself. They immediately took up stones to kill him, just like the Jewish law prescribes concerning those who blaspheme God:

John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Jesus prayed to his Father and asked him to glorify him (Jesus) with the glory which he had with his Father before the existence of the world. It is interesting that Jahve does not share his glory with anyone, and yet Jesus requests to share his precise glory – which he is granted. The only way to solve this is through the trinity. It is further illogical to love someone if he is only an idea or a plan.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.— 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Is. 42:8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Hebr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Who being the brightness of HIS GLORY, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Jesus is the word3Jesus is said to have made the decision to become a servant on earth and to be made in the likeness of men. God is also stated to having sent his son, which is not a contradiction since Jesus is part of the godhead:

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the GLORY of God the Father.

Below is more about the divine GLORY that Jesus had, despite that Jahve explicitly does not share his glory with anyone. Jesus was also the WORD, and this word was in the beginning with God. Not only that, but the word was God! This word (Jesus) became flesh. This is something that God the Father never did, but Jesus certainly did:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.— 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his GLORY, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

Jesus is called the first and the last, Alpha and Omega. Just like God calls himself. Either Jesus is blaspheming God and confuses the innocent Bible readers, or God is part of the godhead:

Rev. 1:And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY.I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa. 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.12 Hearken unto me, O Jacoband Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Isa 44:Thus saith the Lord the King of Israeland his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. 

Jesus was described as the spiritual rock that followed the Israelites through the Exodus:

1 Cord. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

When it comes to the Angel of the Lord (not a created messenger), you can read this post. The Angel of the Lord communicated with God in heaven, despite calling himself God.

Psalms and proverbs mirror the reality, so we must be careful to not automatically understand all poetical expressions and songs as being literal in all details. We can often read about the son being the first-born, only begotten, was brought forth, etc, and they are description of the word that became flesh.

Jesus prayed to his Father and communicated with himJesus birth

Jesus is not the same person as his Father, and Jesus frequently prayed and communicated with his Father – showing they are different persons in the same godhead. God is naturally ONE (a very clear teaching in the Bible and very central  teaching for both Jews and Christians), but this one God consists of three persons and dimensions.

Jesus will sit at the right hand side of God (God the Father), and even if taken symbolically this clearly shows the two are not the same person but different ones in the godhead. The lamb of God, which is Jesus, walked up to him who sat on the throne to take the book with the seven seals:

Rev. 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

When Jesus was as a child he grew and became strong in spirit, indicating he is a different person from his Father who always had full spiritual capabilities and knowledge:

Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.— 49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?

Jesus, as man on earth, did not know the time of the last days, but he claims that his Father knows:

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus made a difference between his Father’s will and his own will. Naturally Jesus came to earth to fulfill a task and he was always willing to do that – until death. If Jesus communicated with himself and asking himself about what was possible, it would be highly confusing.

Matt. 26:39 39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

John 4:34 34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Jesus counts himself as one witness and his Father as another witness – thus two witnesses. Jesus even says that his own witness is not true if he only bears witness of himself. Fortunately his Father makes up another witness, confirming what Jesus was saying. On top of that, Jesus says he did not come to do his own will but the will (another will) of the Father that sent him:

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

John 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Jesus communicated with his Father on the cross. It was not the entire trinity who died on the cross, but Jesus Christ, the son of God:

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The voice of the Father came from heaven, at the same time as Jesus was on earth and prayed to his Father. They are clearly distinct persons, but in the same godhead:

John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

More examples where Jesus makes a distinction between himself and his Father:

Matt 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.—42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.30 I and my Father are one.31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, BEING A MAN, makest thyself GOD.— 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

John 11:41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

1 Cor. 8: 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Hebr. 1:1 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;— 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. — 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. — 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. — 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.— 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.— 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.—16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. –— 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

jesus 2John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:— .8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.— 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.1 — 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.  — 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world

Forgive someone seventy times seven times according to the Bible?

hug 2Thinking the best about people, not the worst

It might not always be easy to forgive someone, but it will become much easier if we keep in mind that Jesus is always ready to forgive us our sins – if we are remorseful about our trespasses. We gain much by taking the role of a defense attorney when it comes to other people’s actions. This does not mean that we should always excuse and justify all sorts of wicked behavior that we see in others, but rather that we should try to find extenuating circumstances rather than aggravated circumstances.  

Real defense attorneys are not expected to deny their clients’ crimes and actions despite obvious evidence of their guilt, but apart from what is already proven it is sometimes possible to find circumstances in the case which could reduce the sentence or acquit the client altogether. There is a difference between acting knowingly compared to acting recklessly (or out of ignorance), and there are some perpetrators who act without a culpable mental state.

We should always be ready to forgive others since our Lord is willing to forgive us – under certain conditions. God does not accept an apology unless we truly mean it and show our repentance with our actions. We should do what we can to repair the damage that we have done, and if we are at fault for having mistreated someone it is not enough to just ask God for forgiveness in silence without also contacting the person we have hurt and make some efforts to rectify our trespasses.

Col. 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

If someone is currently mistreating you and beats you with his/her fists, it is naturally not possible to be persuaded that this person is remorseful about his/her ongoing actions and deserves to be forgiven. Nevertheless, we can live with the hope that this person on a later occasion might regret his poor attitude and would have asked you for forgiveness if he/she had the chance to do so. For this reason we must always be ready to forgive. Christ forgives us our sins if we repent, and we should forgive others in a similar manner, using Christ as our role model. The Bible says ”IF he repent, forgive him” (Luke. 17:3). Notice the word ”if”.

Maybe we have had encounters with individuals in our past – either as children or as adults – who have mistreated us and sinned against us. Our attitude should not be that we are not required to forgive them because we have not met them for many years and  have no knowledge if they are remorseful. No, we must live with the assumption that they have indeed repented and would have asked us for forgiveness should they meet us. Is this not how we would like to be treated ourselves? We might have done things in the past that we deeply regret, and we live with the hope that those we have sinned against will not use it against us.

We gain a lot by not trying to think the worst about people, but rather always seek to find extenuating circumstances so that we can think the best about people – without living in denial. We might end up having a conflict with people who have offended us, but there are lots of things we do not know about their background and circumstances. Maybe they have misunderstood something? Maybe I have misunderstood something? Maybe I am not aware of the whole story leading up to the conflict? Maybe they have had previous bad experiences in life? Maybe they did not mean to offend you but said things as a joke? Maybe their upbringing was not normal? Maybe they did not intend to cause such drama? Sometimes we might get more light on the matter if we talk about it, and at other times we do not get such chances but have to make assumptions about what really transpired. God is the one who will make the final judgment. Maybe there are no valid excuses for being a jerk, and God can judge our hearts.

If we have not always behaved as the ideal friend/colleague/family member, then we are probably thankful for those who are willing to forgive us our wrong doings and who are willing to draw the best conclusions available about us.

Erasing memories not required

To forgive someone does not mean we must forget all his/her sins against us. The case might be that people have sinned against us for many years, and it is not possible to just erase those years from your memory – particularly not if those sins made a huge negative impact in your life.

The Bible says that your salvation is dependent on your willingness to forgive others who ask you for forgiveness. If you do not forgive people for their trespasses, neither will God forgive your trespasses.

Matt 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven

John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

I do not believe we are required to forgive people who are in the midst of their sins, and who are fully aware of that they are sinning against us, without showing a shed of remorse. If someone is breaking into your house and is busy stealing your money, he/she clearly does not mean an apology if he/she keeps on doing it.

Jesus and Stephen forgave people who sinned against them and who did not ask for forgiveness, but in those cases (see below) they motivated their forgiveness with the other people’s ignorance – that they really did not think they were doing something wrong. We must be ready to forgive also during such circumstances. To forgive someone does not mean that we must at once cease to be cautious about this person and assume that he/she will never risk to fall back in to old habits.

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; FOR they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Also Paul expressed thankfulness that Jesus showed mercy on him despite his actions since he (Paul) did not know better. Paul was convinced he was doing the right thing when he persecuted Christians because he desired to live as a righteous Jew according to the Jewish laws (as he interpreted them). Paul did not show any remorse as long as he lived in ignorance, but once he realized his sins against Jesus and his fellow-man, he repented and changed his mind.

1 Tim. 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, BECAUSE I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

When  Jesus says that he remembers our sins no more (Hebr. 8-10), it means that he will no longer use them against us. It does not literally mean that God will select certain parts of his all-powerful knowledge about us and cease to remember them. (We also know this based on the parable in Matt. 18 below.) The promise to no longer remember our sins when we repent, concerns our past sins and cannot be used as a free card for any future sins.

”Forgive me”, means people must forgive?

There might be people who believe that it is the combining of the two words ”Forgive” and ”me” which requires the other person to forgive, just like a magical ”abracadabra” that open doors. The words mean nothing if they just constitute a lip service and when the heart says something different. IF we repent, God will forgive. It is the repentance which is the key, and it can be expressed with the mouth.

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and IF he repent, forgive him. 

Eph. 4:32 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

+ Col. 3:13

Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.— 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Jeremiah 36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

Jesus taught us the importance of forgiving. ALL sins can be forgiven if a person is truly remorseful and decides to leave all the sins behind:

Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

Luke 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Paul criticized the Corinthians for being too lenient when it comes to sins, as per i 1 Cor. 5, but when the sinner has been confronted and shown true remorse (an important condition), the congregation must be ready to forgive him and comfort him so that he will not give up in his grief.

2 Cor. 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Forgiving seventy times seven times

Below is the parable about forgiving seventy times seven times in Matt. 18. This means that there is no specific maximum number when it comes to forgiveness, but we should always be willing to forgive a person who shows true repentance. If someone combines righteous living with sins against you, he/she has clearly no repentant heart.

Something to note about this parable is that the servant who managed to get his debt erased (a symbol for getting his sins forgiven) unfortunately got back the same debt  when he in his turn refused to forgive another. This shows that ”once saved always saved” (or unconditional security) is not a Biblical concept, since a forgiven and cleansed person can become filthy once again and be spiritually separated from God. Note also that the servant started out asking the king for mercy (forgiveness) resulting in the cancelled debt, and it was not the king who initiated the idea.

The servant in the parable did not show true remorse, or perhaps we should say that he was truly sad about his debt and thankful for its removal, but he proved to not be ready to stay away from future debts/sins, despite that further debt would throw him right back into trouble. God can see in our hearts if we truly regret our sins and would like to leave all our sins behind. We must treat others the way we would like to be treated ourselves. We must be ready to forgive others the way Jesus forgives us our sins. We should always have a forgiving attitude.

Matt 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

We need to have forgiving hearts, but God is the one with authority to forgive people their sins.