Etikettarkiv | examples

List of Bible verses that show a flat earth with a firmament

Bible verses showing that the earth is flat and immovable

”Yea, hath God said — ?” (Gen. 3:1)

If we are to be really honest with ourselves, the Bible is a geocentric flat earth book and there is no question about it. If we also add the book of Enoch, the matter is completely settled. This is not proof that the earth is flat, but it is evidence that the Bible teaches it. Let this not be a matter of salvation. It is not a sin to believe that the earth is in the center of God’s creation and that it is immovable, standing on four pillars, has four corners, is likened to a footstool, has a firmament above it containing the stars, the sun and the moon, etc.

footstool

A footstool under God’s feet or a constantly moving BALL?

Some of the verses below are poetic in nature but this does not mean that we can just pretend that they do not hold any type of message to us and are meaningless. They might express the reality in a figurative sense. In the Bible we will find poetry, visions, dreams, parables, analogies, figurative speech, prophesies, psalms, hyperboles, etc, and naturally we must read the text with this in mind. Still, an author would like to express something with this type of text usage and that is often to mirror the reality. It is also important that we do not pick and choose by for example viewing certain verses in the book of Psalms literally when it is suits our own agenda (for example ”in sin did my mother conceive me” by king David in Ps. 51:7), but dismissing other verses in the same book by suggesting ”it’s only poetry so it doesn’t mean anything!” when the message does not fit the same agenda.

For instance, the Bible says that the earth is like a footstool to God, so this is an analogy for us to consider. Do we picture God sitting with a constantly moving and rotating ball under his feet, or do we picture him with his feet on something that really looks like a FOOTSTOOL, like the one in the above picture? A footstool looks like an exact copy of the flat earth model. A footstool is also interesting in the way that it is actually not even needed. A chair (or in God’s case a throne) is higher in importance than a footstool, and it is not even certain that a person in the chair will bother putting up his feet on a footstool. To use a footstool as a picture of the earth is not to show God as an arrogant Majesty who looks down on us with disdain, but to give us some perspective between the Creator and his creation. Compare with his speech to Job, where God’s mighty power is highlighted and his message that Job and his friends were hardly equipped to give the Creator neither advice nor criticism.

Apart from the list below, Christian flat earthers believe that one of the very best argument for a geocentric world picture is the total absence of Bible verses which say something to the effect that the earth is shaped as a ball, constantly moving/rotating, speeding around the sun, is placed in a vast universe with stars and galaxies several trillion miles away, etc.

Many creationists say that it would have been so easy for God to say that a ”day” (Hebrew yom) in the creation account means something else than what we consider a day (but that a day can last millions of years), but God never says this. This is likely due to the fact that a day was, and still is, a normal 24 hour day or else God would have clarified this for us. Similarly, flat earthers believe that if God wanted to reveal a heliocentric model for us, he could easily have explained this to avoid a misunderstanding, but he never does. We are told the exact opposite. Therefore we should have respect for those Christians who believe in the geocentric model, because they are convinced that they get this model straight from the Bible.

BIBLE VERSES (KJV) in chronological order (i. e. Bible order)

1)

Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.—5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.—14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Comment: Based on the Bible’s creation account, we learn that the earth was created before the sun, there was a firmament with water both under it and over it, the sun, moon and the stars were placed IN the firmament (not above) and their purpose was to give light from the perspective of the earth. They were also created to be signs for seasons, days, and years (which for example sun och moon eclipses can offer). Interestingly, when we zoom in on stars through a telescope, they appear as though they are behind a layer of water. The sun and the moon are presented as though they both give light (with no indication that one of them only reflects the other ones light). The greater light was to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night.

2)

Gen.7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen. 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained

Comment: Naturally we are not to assume that real windows were in heaven, but something was opened up in heaven and an enormous amount of rain fell on earth. Normally it does not rain for that long, so where did all the water from above come from? It could be explained by openings in the firmament.

3)

Gen. 11:4 They said, “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” 5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.6 The Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.

Comment: A story which would be impossible on a globe but more feasible on a flat earth model with a firmament as the maximum limit, and especially if there were giants around like Goliath who could participate in the construction. Still, to be able to build a tower up to an altitude near a firmament (they did not reach all the way) would mean that the tower would have reached an altitude where eventually moving and even breathing would be hard. God prevented them from building any further, but it seems like he was of the view that they would have succeeded to reach far enough had they continued: nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them”. About the tower of Babel here (Swedish). 

4) 

earth

The paths cause seasons by moving closer to the center and back again

Joshua 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the Lord cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So THE SUN stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.

Comment: The author could easily have said that the earth stood still if that was the case, but it says that the sun and the moon stood still, and that the sun took action by delaying going down (the sun goes down both in the globe model and the flat earth model). If the earth had to make a halt and stopped its rotating and its path across the sun, people on earth would have died. Joshua seemed to have viewed the sun and the moon as a couple that needed to slow down together in order for the project to work. According to the book of Enoch, the moon moves slightly slower than the sun, and it is interesting that the text in Joshua confirms it by two different verbs ”the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, as though the sun indeed made a complete halt while the moon almost did the same thing by slowing down considerably. The rocks thrown by God seem to confirm that his throne is placed rather close right above the vault since the rocks were thrown with such a precision. Had God’s throne been placed billions of light years away out in the universe, the rocks would fall all over the place and not in a certain valley on earth. God is almighty and can perform any miracle he likes? Absolutely, but looking at it that way, God does not need any rocks in the first place but can kill whoever he wants whenever he wants. (The book of Jasher is referred to 2 times in the Bible so it cannot easily be brushed off.)

5)

Judges 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.

Comment: Stars are viewed as living beings.

6)

1 Sam. 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and HE HATH SET THE WORLD UPON THEM.  

Comment: The oft mentioned pillars are placed as support for the world since the world is placed ON these pillars. Since the earth is elsewhere described as having four corners, it makes sense to place one pillar in each corner. Together with a vault, the outcome looks like a FOOTSTOOL

7)

2 Sam. 22:8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. — 16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Comment: The earth is often described as standing still which is the normality, but king David describes God’s wrath in such a way that the foundations of heaven will move and shake. This sounds like something out of the ordinary, but if the  normality is that the earth always moves and shakes due to the earth’s rotation and high-speed, what would be the difference?

8)

1 Chron. 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. 

Comment: The ideal situation seems to be a stable world that is not moved. In the heliocentric model, the world (and/or the earth) is constantly moving without stop.

9)

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. 8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

Comment: The ordinary scenario for the earth is to stand still (in the flat earth model), but here we can read the description of God’s power that can shake the earth ”out of her place”, and the pillars under it might tremble. If the earth would normally be rotating and travelling faster than a bullet around the sun, it would be illogical to suggest that the pillars under it can tremble and that the earth might be shaken out of its place. We can also read about commanding the sun to not rise, indicating that it is the sun that moves in such a way that it rises (instead of the earth’s movement). Sealing up the stars, might be a description how they are sealed into the firmament.

10)

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven. (”the vault of heaven” – ASV)

Comment: God’s position is just above the vault and since the clouds are right under it, they might also ”cover” him.

11)

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.12 He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud. 

Comment: ”Stretching out the north”, might refer to the whole construction of the pole star in the north and the stretched out firmament surrounding it. ”Hanging the earth upon nothing”? Is this a good description of an earth standing steady on pillars? Well, it is at least a closer description of a flat earth model rather than a globe model with an earth which constantly both rotates and travels at a high-speed around the sun. If you hang something up, like a picture on the wall, you expect it to remain still where it is hanged. You do not expect it to move around on the wall. A flat earth model, shaped as a footstool, could still be described as ”hanging on nothing”. The waters (like the oceans) are apparently compassed with bounds, and this might be a reference to Antarctica which is the outer ring on a flat earth model. The pillars of heaven tremble, which might be a reference to the pillars in each corner of the earth which are also connected to the firmament.

12)

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Comment: Apparently the earth has ends, which works well on the flat earth model, but not on the globe model. God can see under the whole heaven, and that is true whether the earth is flat or a globe. If someone is high enough he can also see the whole earth (everything) under him, which could very well be the point that is being made here – in order to describe God’s majesty.

13)

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth. — 18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Comment: The earth has ”ends”, and in the Bible the sky can also be translated ”expanse” as in YLT, where instead of ”molten looking-glass” we can read ”a hard mirror”. It is translated ”a cast metal mirror” in NKJV. This could be referred to the firmament of the sky, which apparently is strong and more or less solid. You can read more about a solid firmament here.

14)

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Comment: A fastened foundation and a corner-stone work better as descriptions for a flat earth model, and especially if it is possible to stretch out a line over it. It is harder to stretch out a line on a ball. The stars are again described as living beings, just as much as the sons of God (angels) are, since they can sing. The sea (the oceans) are  described as being shut up with doors (bars and doors). Naturally not real doors, but it could be a description of Antarctica. Especially since we can read this statement: Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed”. A comparison is made with the womb, which has its outer bounds as well. It is not a big deal that boats and waves are restricted by large and small land masses (both continents and little islands), but we are reading here about an outer bound which is the maximum outer limit. 

15)

JobJob 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;13 That it might take hold of the ends of the EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?14 It is turned AS A CLAY TO THE SEAL; and they stand as a garment. — 18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, 20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

Comment: Again, we can read about the ends of the earth. We also get the picture of God being able to hold the ends of the earth and shake the wicked out of it. This is easy to imagine if a blanket or a sheet are used, and they have four corners. Like in this verse ”Acts 10: 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth” + Acts 11:5. Turning the earth ”as a clay to seal”, is difficult to imagine on a ball, but works well on a flat surface. In fact, if we do make a seal out of clay, it will turn out like the above which is a good picture of the flat earth model with an outer bound. 

16)

Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

17)

Psalm 19: 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man TO RUN A RACE.  
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his CIRCUIT unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Comment: If the firmament is nothing more than air or space, it is hard to see why precisely this air would be a glorious example of God’s handiwork. If, however, the firmament is something solid, bright and stretched out over the entire earth then it is easier to understand why this object is used as an example of God’s magnificent creation. We can read about the end of the world, and (just like in the book of Enoch) we can see that the sun has a tabernacle and likened to a bridegroom. This sun runs a race by going forth from the end of heaven and his circuit (a circle) unto the ends of it. This means that it is the sun that does the job around the earth, and not the earth travelling around the sun.

18)

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Comment: The inhabitants of the earth are real, so it is likely that the pillars are real as well.

19)

Psalm 78:23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven

Comment: Windows and doors are viewed as something that can be opened up – and maybe also the firmament is solid and able to have openings which God might choose to open up.

sheet20)

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Comment: The oft mentioned phrase ”cannot be moved” does not work well on a heliocentric model where the globe rotates around its axis about 1675 km/h (approx. 1,000 miles/h) with an orbital velocity around the sun of about 28,000 km/hour. A suitable quote: ”For every second you’re moving almost half a kilometer through space and you don’t even feel it”. With other words; the earth in the heliocentric model is constantly moving and is the opposite of immovable.

21)

Psalm 96:10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it SHALL NOT BE MOVED: he shall judge the people righteously.  

Comment: It shall not be moved. This is often repeated, as though it is important information.

22)

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Comment: If ”heaven” is nothing more than air or space, it is not a good example of impressing things that God can create with his hands.

23)

sun beamPsalm 104:1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:3 Who layeth the BEAMS of his chambers in the WATERS: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth. (NASB: 2:— Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain.)

Comment: A curtain that is stretched out around a ball does not even sound like a curtain.  On a flat earth model, however, the analogy works perfectly. We can read about beams of his chambers in the waters. (If you check the picture above, where does the sun seem to be? Right behind that cloud, producing a beam in the water all the way to the watcher, or billions of light years away?). God apparently laid the foundation of the earth with the aim that it should not be removed for ever. V. 5-9 seems to describe the creation and the division between land and water. We can again read about a boundary for the oceans which could be a reference to Antarctica. ”Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth”. It sounds like the waters were once above the whole earth, including the mountains, since we can read that the bound is there to not again make them cover the earth. 

24)

Psalm 136:6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Comment: Water finds its level, and it cannot bend around a ball. In the beginning God stretched out the earth (the land masses) above the waters. The sun rules by the day, and the moon and stars at night. This is confirmation of the description in Gen. 1 that these heavenly objects are created for the sake of the earth, and to perform their duties from the perspective of the earth. In the heliocentric model the earth is far away from the center and the earth plays no role for the objects in the universe.

25)

Psalm 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

Comment: Stars are not dead objects, but they are alive and have names.

26)

Psalm 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

Comment: When this psalm was written (long after the flood), it appears that waters were still above the heavens.

27)

Prov. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compassupon the face of the depth(ESV —When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.)

Comment: If the heaven is nothing more than air or space, it would not be much to ”prepare”. Drawing a circle on a ball sounds weird, but drawing a circle on a flat surface is easier to imagine.

28)

flat earthEccl. 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to HIS PLACE where HE AROSE.

Comment: The sun is the one that performs the job of ”going down” and ”arising”, rather than the earth. The sun (called HE) returns back to the same place as he came from. This description does not fit a globe model.

29)

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Comment: If the earth has four corners and also has ends, it is a good guess that the pillars under it are four in number.

30)

Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. — 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Comment: In the end of days things will change dramatically. Among other things, the moon shall no longer call her (a she) light to shine. The moon has its own light. The heavens will shake and the earth shall be removed out of her place. In a heliocentric model, this happens every day.

31)

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun RETURNED ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Comment: This does not work on a globe model. We can read that it was the sun that returned ten degrees. If the earth would have halted to go backwards, people on earth would have died. A sun halting or going backwards a few degrees would not be harmful in a flat earth model.

32)

tentIsaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Comment: ”Circle” in the above verse is a translation from the Hebrew noun chug (Strong’s 2329) which means circle, vault or horizon.(Note that it is not translated as ball or sphere.) Apart from the above verse, it is found twice more in the Bible. In Job 22:14 we can read about God walking on the circle/vault of heaven (walking on the firmament of heaven), and in Proverbs 8:27 we can read that this circle was inscribed into the face of the deep. NKJV phrases it as ”When He drew a circle on the face of the deep”. It is hard (or rather impossible) to draw a sphere or a globe into something, but it is definitely possible to draw/inscribe a circle into something. While chug is not a translation for ball, there is however a word for ”ball” that Isaiah could have used if this is what he wanted to express, but he did not use it in the above verse. He did, however, use it in Is. 22:18 where ball is a translation from dur (Strong’s 1754). An analogy is used of the heavens stretched out as a curtain and spread out as a TENT to dwell in – for the inhabitants who look like grasshoppers. It is almost impossible to imagine the picture of a tent placed on a globe where all the inhabitants live in. It is a perfect analogy if we imagine a flat earth with a firmament over it, and especially if we also imagine the tabernacle during the Exodus. Read more here.

33)

Isaiah 43:6 I’ll say to the north, ‘Give them up’! and to the south, ‘Don’t keep them back!’ Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth

34)

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Comment: If the heaven is nothing more than air or space, it is nothing impressive about spreading this air out, either alone or with some help.

35)

Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

36)

Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Comment: Again, much ado about the spreading out the heavens with one single hand. If the heaven is only air or space, it is not impressive. If we are including the whole firmament/vault however, it is very impressive and even breathtaking.

37)

Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

Comment: Once again the moon is stated to give light, and once again the sun is stated to cause the movements on earth – here going down.

38)

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and THE EARTH IS MY FOOTSTOOL: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Comment: The earth is God’s footstool. Does it really look like a footstool standing firm on four legs, or does it look like a constantly moving ball?

39)

Ez. 1:22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Comment: The firmament looked like crystal and the strange beings, which the text talks about, were right under this firmament. Ezekiel could still both hear them and see them in his vision. Just above the firmament is where Ezekiel could see the throne and someone who looked like a man upon it.

40)

Ez. 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God.

Comment: Again we can read that the moon has its own light. The stars will be dark, but it does not say that they will therefore cease to be stars. We know from Revelations that stars will eventually fall down unto the earth.

 earth 641)

Dan. 4:10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth —20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.

Comment: A tree in the midst of the earth, high enough to reach heaven and visible to the entire earth? Someone might suggest that this is only a dream and we can even read in v. 22 that the tree was king Belteshazzar, but dreams do not have to be illogical just because they are dreams. It would make more sense for a divine dream to be somewhat logical in order to work as a reasonable comparison with the king. Daniel had several other dreams and visions, and while none of them were therefore ”real” they still made perfect sense.

42)

Dan. 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Comment: Stars are cast down to earth and stamped on. Still, life on earth continues. Even if this is only a dream, it is a confirmation of Jesus own words in the New Testament and the prophesies in Revelations.

43)

Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Comment: Air and/or space will tremble? Or the whole construction with the firmament?

44)

Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Comment: The moon is again claimed to have its own light.

45)

Amos 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.

Comment: Stars can apparently be idols, as though they were people.

46)

Amos 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.

Amos 9:6 (NASB)The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth—

Comment: ”The face of the earth” could signify a certain side up. A troop or a vaulted dome over the earth.

47)

Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.

Comment: The earth has boundaries.

48)

Hab. 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Comment: The sun and the moon stood still. Can we choose to not believe it because it does not fit a certain model?

49)

Matt. 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Comment: Why the need to take Jesus up to a high mountain, if he would not be able to see more than a small region anyway? In the flat earth model, if he would be taken close to the firmament, he would be able to see the entire earth.

50)

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:—31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.  

Comment: Stars will fall on earth, and life will still continue. Every one shall see the son in the clouds, which is easier if the earth was flat. The elect will be collected from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Seems like the heaven starts and ends at certain places.

perspective51

1 Cor.15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Comment: Again it is hinted that the moon has its own light.

52)

Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; WANDERING STARS, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever 

Comment: See more here about wandering stars. Planets are not mentioned in the Bible, but stars are mentioned – including wandering stars like Venus.

53)

Rev. 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.—20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 54)

Rev. 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Comment: The stars of heaven will fall on the earth, but the life on earth continues on also after this moment. The process is compared with figs being shaken off a fig tree, and figs land under the tree on a flat surface.

55)

Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Comment: This is part of a prophesy, and since prophesies are real future events it makes sense to believe there will in fact be four angels on a mission which includes standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds. It is true that it is hard to take hold of a wind but we are not told exactly how these winds are being held. Real angels can accomplish real things which human beings cannot do.

56)

Rev. 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. 

Comment: People survived despite of this star landing on earth, and the water did not burn up because of it but became bitter.

57)

Rev. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Comment: A star fell unto the heaven, and apparently the bottomless pit (which some believe to be in Antarctica) remained intact without burning up.

58)

Rev. 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Comment. A third part of the stars of heaven were cast to earth, but life continued on earth also after this moment.

59)

Rev. 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.9 And they went up on the BREADTH of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Comment: ”The nations at the four corners of the earth” could be a way to express ”all nations”,  but this does not exclude the possibility that it is also literally true that the nations are within four corners of the earth – especially if we also add the information that there will be four angels standing at these corners holding the winds of the earth. The word ”breadth” above describes the surface of the earth, and not parts of the earth. The word is a translation from the noun πλάτος/platos (Strong’s 4114) and can be translated as width or broad plain. The corresponding adjective is πλατύς/platus (Strong’s 4116) which can be used as a description of a street as in Matt. 7:13 (flat and stretched out). The corresponding verb is πλάσσω/plassó (Strong’s 4111), which can be translated as form/mould. The French word ”plateau” signifies a level portion (or nearly level) of the earth’s surface. The French word derives from platel, which is a description of a flat object, like a plateIn Swedish the word for”flat” is ”platt” (similar in other Germanic languages).

***

There are about 35 verses each that mention the end/ends of the earth, as well as the ”face” of the earth. Naturally it is impossible to find any ”ends” on a ball, and it is just as impossible to figure out which side of a ball that is considered ”the face” (a front of something)Needless to say that the existence of ends and a face of the earth work perfectly on a flat earth model.

I can also recommend reading the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher (both referred to in the Bible) and always compare everything with the Bible.

Satan would like to hide God’s creation from us (in order to hide God), and he is pleased with the teaching of Evolution in combination with billions of years in a heliocentric model – which minimize God and our significance in his creation:

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Rom. 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Fake moon landing: A funny thing happened on the way to the moon

If you want to learn more WHY people believe in a flat earth from their own sources:  Mark Sargent’s Flat earth clues. Eric Dubay’s 200 reasons the earth is not a spinning ball. The youtube channel My perspective.

(Note, that I do not necessarily agree with all statements in the links I recommend here or elsewhere on my Blog.)

Sleep paralysis, inability to move or speak – testimonies

dreamingWhat is sleep paralysis?

Sleep paralysis is when during awakening or a falling asleep, a person is conscious and aware but unable to move or speak. It can occur while falling asleep (predormital sleep paralysis) or when waking up (postdormital sleep paralysis). It is equally common among men and women, but it is more common among young people (like young teens.)

Feelings of fear and panic are naturally common during a sleep paralysis, and some have felt sensations of electric vibrations running through their body as well as hearing static sounds. Some have had such bad experiences during their sleep paralyses, like seeing the shape of someone in the room, that they fear going to sleep. Some suggest that lack of sleep might be a contributing factor for people prone to get a sleep paralysis, but I have heard of even more testimonies where the exact opposite is true – where individuals have had plenty of regular sleep and yet experience sleep paralyses.

Factors that may be linked to a sleep paralysis might include:

  • Being a young teenager
  • Sleeping on the back
  • Having had lots of sleep and feeling relaxed

I have often wondered if the blood factor RH 0 Negative (0 -) might be one of the triggers for a sleep paralysis, but I have no statistics for this. About 7% of the world’s population have this blood type including myself.

My own experience

My first postdormital sleep paralysis lasted about 15-20 minutes, and the second one  lasted for a couple of minutes.

My first one occurred when I was a young teenager, about 14 years of age, and I believe I was sleeping on my back. It was late one morning, about 10.30, and that is when I usually woke up in my teens without an alarm clock. When I woke up I could open my eyes and look around, but I could not move or speak. My entire body was completely paralyzed and I could not move even if I tried. I was wide awake so it was definitely not a dream, a hallucination or similar. Naturally I was frightened but I took for granted that this highly unusual condition surely must stop right away because I was awake after all! However, regardless of my severe attempts to move I was still paralyzed.

If I would not have been able to see, I would likely have panicked, and also if it had happen during the night when it would have been dark. Fortunately I was able to see, and it was light with sunshine coming in from the window. Apart from my paralysis, everything looked and appeared as normal and it was therefore not a frightening atmosphere. I still longed to hear sounds from any family member outside my door, because this would hopefully help my body to wake up? But I heard no one, and after some time my body woke up by itself.

My second experience happened soon after, but I cannot remember if it was days or weeks in between.

I have had numerous predormital sleep paralyses in my life, even if I had not had them the last 10 years. I did not realize at the time that the two types of sleep paralyses were connected, nor that they were even called sleep paralysis. In a way the predormital sleep paralyses were more frightening even though they only lasted for seconds, because then I could not even open my eyes, it was dark in the room and I had a strong sensation of fear. Usually you are not aware of the moment when you fall asleep but during a predormital sleep paralysis you will suddenly be aware of the exact second of falling asleep. Maybe this does not sound too bad, but it is extremely frightening to not be able to move or speak in combination with a nightmarish feeling – and the knowledge that you will likely not succeed to overcome the situation (by sitting up in bed) but you will be dragged down into a sleep against your will. This type of paralysis might happen both when you are about to sleep for the night, but also later during the night when you wake up with a paralysis.

I remember when I was a very young child – like 4 or younger – when I was afraid of sleeping due to the feeling of being totally absorbed into my pillow and not being able to move. I felt that I was dragged into a nightmarish feeling from the very start, and I desperately tried to prevent it but always failed. I also had plenty of nightmares and hallucinations during this time, but this is not uncommon among small children. (These types of hallucinations should not be compared with sleep paralyses, which are real.)

I have read testimonies from people who have had ”out-of-body experiences” (or astral projections) and it seems like at least some of them start with a sleep paralysis. It is when they fight hard to get out of the paralysis when they suddenly feel that they are being lifted up and move towards the ceiling, where they turn around and can see themselves in bed. I have no means of knowing if these experiences are true or not, but maybe they are since ”near death experiences” definitely seem true. Sure, some of them might be lies, and others might be exaggerated or misunderstood, but I truly believe people have experienced them. At times they have been able to describe dialogues among the hospital staff during the time when they (the patients) were actually ”dead” – before returning back to life. Many have described the light, an encounter with angels, communication without words and even a meeting with God who tells them that it is not time …

Up to as many as four out of every 10 people may have experienced a sleep paralysis. Have you? Please let us know about your sleep paralysis experience or an out-of-body experience.

Eccl. 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The FIRMAMENT in Biblical Genesis – something visible and SOLID – the meaning of raqia

footstool

Acts 7:49 ”Heaven is My throne, and the earth a footstool of My feet”

And God said, Let there be A FIRMAMENT in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters (Gen. 1:6)

(Bible verses further down below.)

Heroic efforts have been made to explain away the firmament which we can read about in the Bible, partly because of the clear implications that it is durable enough to hold waters above it, but still small (and near) enough to enclose the celestial bodies which Genesis talks about. This Biblical information bothers many Christians due to their hard task to try to fit in the moon landings, the ball-shaped earth and heliocentrism – which are believed to be modern truths that must be saved to all costs. The Evolution theory is naturally impossible to save if the earth is not made through a Big Bang billions of years ago because lots of time is required in order to make this theory sound plausible.

It is more honest to read the Bible without trying to save certain theories, even if we are convinced they are true, because it is never a sin to read Biblical texts in its proper context. Even secular people must admit that the Bible has over the years proved to be a highly trustworthy book because of the many details about cities, people, leaders, wars, coins, etc, which have parallels also in other old sources as well as in history and archaeology. It is therefore interesting to see what the Bible says about the firmament – which this blog post is about. If we try to be neutral with no preconceived ideas, what does the Bible really say about it?

It is of interest to see how the Greek Septuagint has rendered the Hebrew word raqia with help from the holy Spirit. The answer is the noun στερέωμα (stereóma) from Strong’s 4733, meaning a support, strength (solidity), firmness, steadfastness. It derives from the verb στερεόω (stereoó) from Strong’s 4732, and can mean strengthen, confirm, establish, solidify, make strong, make firm. HELP’s word studies: Cognate: – make stable (solid, immoveable). The adjective is στερεός (stereos) from Strong’s 4731, and the short definition is hard/firm. It can also be translated solid, steadfast or immoveable.

The first occurrence can be found in the first chapter of Genesis (Gen. 1:6) where we can read about God’s creation. This means that raqia/stereóma is something physical that was made. The latin Vulgate has translated the word firmamentum.

The Bible contains many verses where the writer is in total awe about God’s creation of the heavens and the firmament, but if the firmament is nothing physical but at the most air or space, then this type of ”handiwork” is not much do be impressed about. However, if the firmament is a physical vault covering the entire earth and containing the stars, the sun and the moon, then it is definitely something to mention in a psalm.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens [shamayim] declare the glory of God; and the firmament [raqiya] sheweth his handywork.   

Since also theologians can be in error about the Bible, even if it is scarce, the best tools to verify the meaning of a term are:

  1. The Bible itself. To see how the same term is used elsewhere in the Bible.
  2. The Septuagint can be used to check equivalent Hebrew expressions in Greek. 
  3. Other old trustworthy writings from the same period, particularly those referred to in the Bible (the book of Enoch, the book of Jasher).  
  4. Old church fathers – the older the better. What quotes do they use, and how do they understand the term? Which lost books do they speak highly of? (See here that the church fathers indeed believed in a physical firmament.)

Based on the above tools, it is very hard to come to any other conclusion than that the firmament is a physical object above the sky – the outer edge – and the celestial bodies are placed in it.

The Jewish historian Josephus /Ch.1. The constitution of the world and the disposition of the elements/:

1. — After this, on the second day, he placed the heaven over the whole world, and separated it from the other parts, and he determined it should stand by itself. He also placed a crystalline [firmament] round it, and put it together in a manner agreeable to the earth, and fitted it for giving moisture and rain, and for affording the advantage of dews.  

If the firmament is constructed as the Bible explains, naturally no moon landing couldmark twain ever have taken place. With or without the firmament problem, there is absolutely no evidence that man has ever been to the moon, but there is evidence that NASA has lied to us and faked all moon missions (check out also other NASA lies linked to the ISS, the Hubble telescope, etc). The reason why it is now 2018 and people still believe man has been on the moon, is because they are convinced that NASA would not lie to them, because they believe thousands or millions of people must have been involved (which is totally false), and because they have not seen films such as ”A funny thing happened on the way to the moon” (proves cheating), or Jarrah White’s youtube channel Moonfaker, or Marcus Allen’s moon hoax films or any of the fake moon landing photos on aulis, etc. Instead they rely on mainstream media and that they must avoid alternative news to be good and obedient citizens. It really should be enough to see the press conference right after the first moon landing, where the three astronauts should have danced around the room of joy just for having survived the round trip despite all the radiation impact and other risks, but instead they looked like their favorite dog just died. Surprisingly, they could not even remember if they could see any stars on their trip or not. Michael Collins claimed he could not remember seeing any stars at all (contrary to Neil Armstrong’s claim), but later in his book he mentioned all the beautiful stars he could see.

Bible verses showing the Hebrew verb raqa and the Hebrew noun raqia

The English word ”firmament” is based on the Latin word firmamentum, used in the Vulgate and this term in turn is derived from the Latin root firmus – a cognate with ”firm”. It is a Latinization of the Greek stereōma which appears in the Septuagint version of the Bible.

The original Hebrew noun in the Old Testament is raqia (Strong’s 7549) and can be translated as an extended surface or expanse. Bluletterbible also offers ”a visible arch of the sky”. This noun is used 17 times in the KJV.   

The corresponding Hebrew verb raqa (Strong’s 7554) could be translated into: to beat, beat out, stamp, hammer and spread out thinly, like the process of making a dish by hammering thin a lump of metal. This verb is used 11 times in the KJV.

Let us start with the Bible verses with the verb form, so that we can easier understand what the noun might mean thanks to the details. The most interesting verse is Job 37:18 which could be translated as God beating out the skies as strong as metal. 

Can you, with Him, spread out the skies, Strong as a molten mirror? (NASB)

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror? (ESV)

Below, the verb use in the KJV This verb is for example used when we read about beating gold into thin plates, plates being made broad to cover an altar, goldsmiths spreading out gold over graven images, silver spread into plates, and God stretching out the earth (most importantly, when he spreads out the sky which is strong as molten looking-glass).

Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Ex. 39:3 And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.

Num. 16:39 And Eleazar the priest took the brasen censers, wherewith they that were burnt had offered; and they were made broad plates for a covering of the altar:

2 Sam. 22:41 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies, that I might destroy them that hate me.— 43 Then did I beat them as small as the dust of the earth, I did stamp them as the mire of the street, and did spread them abroad.

Ps. 136:6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Is. 40:19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.

Is. 42:5 5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein

Is. 44:24 24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Jer. 10:9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

Ez. 6:11 Thus saith the Lord God; Smite with thine hand, and stamp with thy foot, and say, Alas for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! for they shall fall by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence.

Ez. 25:6 For thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast clapped thine hands, and stamped with the feet, and rejoiced in heart with all thy despite against the land of Israel

flat earthBelow, the noun use in the KJV – this noun is for example used to show something visible, solid, with a certain color (crystal) and brightness, and strong enough to hold water above it. There is water both below this firmament (on the earth) as well as above. We know from films of stars that they indeed look like they are placed behind a layer of water. The firmament is also called ”heaven” but is specifically explained as ”the firmament of the heaven”. The celestial bodies (the lights) are placed in this firmament and not above it. The lights are there specifically to give light upon the earth, and to be used as signs for the inhabitants of the earth. The birds were created to fly in the open firmament of heaven”. Based on psalms, this firmament is still in existence to show the glory of God. The firmament is stretched forth over our heads and Ezekiel describes the firmament to be rather near, because the odd-looking creatures with wings will be close by this firmament with their voices heard from it. The context of Ezekiel requires a literal vault or dome.

Gen. 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.— 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

 Ps. 150:1 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

Ez. 1:15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.— 22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. 23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

Ez. 10:1 Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne.

Dan. 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Other versesearth

Other equivalent verses about the firmament which looks like a tabernacle or tent. A rotating globe circling around the sun naturally does not need a ”foundation”, nor any pillars to stand on. Spreading out the firmament/vault/tabernacle as a tent over the earth, for the inhabitants to dwell in, would be hard to imagine on a ball.

Is. 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Job 9:1 Then Job answered and said —6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south. 

Job  36:29 Also can any understand the spreadings of the clouds, or the noise of his tabernacle?30 Behold, he spreadeth his light upon it, and covereth the bottom of the sea.

Job 38:44 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?— 13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.

1 Sam. 2:7 The Lord maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the PILLARS of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

Psalm 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

Psalm 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.” 

The Apocalypse of Baruch is not a canonized book, but it could still very well be that this book confirms the Bible in part or in total. It seems like the Bible, lost books/pseudogrypha, old church fathers, the Septauagint, etc, all say the same thing: The firmament is solid. 

Greek Apocalypse of Baruch, 3:5–8:

”Those who gave counsel to build the tower, for they whom thou seest drove forth multitudes of both men and women, to make bricks; among whom, a woman making bricks was not allowed to be released in the hour of child-birth, but brought forth while she was making bricks, and carried her child in her apron, and continued to make bricks. And the Lord appeared to them and confused their speech, when they had built the tower to the height of four hundred and sixty-three cubits. And they took a gimlet, and sought to pierce the heavens, saying, Let us see (whether) the heaven is made of clay, or of brass, or of iron. When God saw this He did not permit them, but smote them with blindness and confusion of speech, and rendered them as thou seest.

Stars will fall to the earth, and people continue to live

Stars can fall from the skies according to Daniel 8:10 and Matthew 24:29, as well as Revelations.

Rev. 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 1And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb

Rev: 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Rev. 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Ps. 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

If one star let alone all the stars in the sky fell on the earth, no one would be able to either hide or speak since the earth would burn up long before this happened.

The book of Enoch – a flat earth bookflat earth 5

Numerous manuscripts of 1 Enoch have  been found in Ethiopian monasteries, and they have also been found among the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran. The book of Enoch and the book of Jasher are both quoted in the Bible. This means that we should not view the text lightly, but rather with the assumption that they likely contain valid descriptions of our past.

The punishment of the fallen angels described in 2 Peter seems to resemble the book of Enoch, as does much of the wording in Revelation. The Epistle of Jude does not only reveal that Genesis should be taken literally (Enoch is in the 7th generation from Adam), but also supports the book of Enoch when it comes to the punishment of the angels – even if the book of Enoch contains many more details. By attributing prophecy to Enoch, Jude gives much support to the validity of his book.

Jude 14 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.—And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

The book of Enoch contains too many descriptions of the sun, moon, stars and angels, etc, to cover here, but here are some quotes:

1 Enoch 1:1. The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. 2. And he took up his parable and said–Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

1 Enoch 18:1. I saw the treasuries of all the winds: I saw how He had furnished with them the whole creation and the firm foundations of the earth. 2. And I saw the corner-stone of the earth: I saw the four winds which bear [ the earth and ] the firmament of the heaven. 3. And I saw how the winds stretch out the vaults of heaven, and have their station between heaven and earth: these are the pillars of the heaven . 4. I saw the winds of heaven which turn and bring the circumference of the sun and all the stars to their setting. 5. I saw the winds on the earth carrying the clouds: I saw the paths of the angels. I saw at the end of the earth the firmament of the heaven above. —9. And I saw a flaming fire. And beyond these mountains 10. is a region the end of the great earth:there the heavens were completed.  — 15. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. 

1 Enoch 21:1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. 3. And there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. 4. Then I said: ‘For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?’ 5. Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: ‘Enoch, why dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? 6. These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.’ 7. And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. 8. Then I said: ‘How fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!’ 9. Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: ‘Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?’ And I answered: ‘Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.’ 10. And he said unto me: ‘This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.’

1 Enoch 33:2. And to the east of those beasts I saw the ends of the earth whereon the heaven rests, and the portals of the heaven open. 3. And I saw how the stars of heaven come forth, and I counted the portals out of which they proceed, and wrote down all their outlets, of each individual star by itself, according to their number and their names, their courses and their positions, and their times and their months, as Uriel the holy angel who was with me showed me. 

1 Enoch 72:2-5. This is the first commandment of the luminaries: The sun is a luminary whose egress is an opening of heaven, which is (located) in the direction of the east, and whose ingress is (another) opening of heaven, (located) in the west. I saw six openings through which the sun rises and six openings through which it sets. The moon also rises and sets through the same openings, and they are guided by the stars; together with those whom they lead, they are six in the east and six in the west heaven. All of them (are arranged) one after another in a constant order. There are many windows (both) to the right and the left of these openings. First there goes out the great light whose name is the sun; its roundness is like the roundness of the sky; and it is totally filled with light and heat. The chariot in which it ascends is (driven by) the blowing wind. The sun sets in the sky (in the west) and returns by the northeast in order to go to the east; it is guided so that it shall reach the eastern gate and shine in the face of the sky,

According to this description, stars that rise and set do so through openings in the dome, just like the sun and moon. Enoch describes the sun and the moon as being of the same size. Most stars belong in certain star constellations, but there are also wandering stars who do not follow the order. They are the ones which have transgressed the commandments of God because they do not arrive punctually (1 Enoch 18:14-15). Like the Bible, 1 Enoch typically depicts stars, and the ”sons of God” as living, anthropomorphic beings. This is consistent with Job 38:7, which says that when the earth’s cornerstone was laid “the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted aloud.”

Also King David describes the sun as a male, and just like Enoch and David too speaks about chambers, running a race, etc:

Ps. 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Job  9:1 Then Job answered and said,2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?— 6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

FE 4No need to fear the flat earth movement and their arguments

The last thing that Satan would do is to push people straight into the arms of God, but this is exactly what the flat earth movement is doing. For this reason there is no reason to be upset with people who have come to the conclusion that the earth if flat based on the Biblical information (others have of course come to this conclusion regardless of the Bible), and who do what they can to refute Big Bang, Evolution, heliocentrism, a global earth, etc. If they are wrong, it is better to explain why and present better arguments. Satan does not even want people to believe in God in the first place, so flat-earthers are certainly not his best friends. Not all flat earthers are Christians, but they still inadvertently highlight the existence of a Creator and that the earth, with its inhabitants, is the absolute center of his creation and with everything revolving around it. This is far from the naturalistic and materialistic world – with no room for a Creator – which we are brought up to believe in.

The Bible explains that our Creator can be detected through his creation, by the things that are made. Naturally then Satan would like to do all he can to hide this divine creation from the people of the earth, and he also offers other an alternative which does not require a Creator to start with.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the THINGS that are MADE, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Satan’s presentation of our existence includes Big Bang and Evolution in order to deceive people to turn their backs on a Creator, but heliocentrism is also a piece of this puzzle (and the idea that the earth is a planet among other planets) since it reduces the earth into a tiny little speck circling the sun in a vast universe which likely contains more ”earths” with living creatures since the earth is far from unique. This in turn reduces human being into brief parentheses in time, with no purpose, without a God who loves them, with no value whatsoever and particularly with no future. In Satan’s world, the earth is far from placed in the center, but is rather mere dust which came about by chance.

The Biblical creation account is the exact opposite. In the Bible we can read that the earth is the center of God’s world, is his footstool, hangs on nothing, is immovable, is placed on four pillars, human beings on it are the crown of his creation, has a firmament/dome/vault/arch over it which is stretched out like a tent to dwell in, stars are small enough to fall on earth, etc. Flat-earthers would even say that the Bible straight out says that the earth is flat.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 

The word ”breadth” above is a description of the shape of the earth, and not certain parts of the earth. The word is a translation from the noun πλάτος/platos, Strong’s 4114, which means broad, something stretched out, flat, wide and is sometimes interpreted as ”broad plain” = NASB. The adjective is πλατύς, Strong’s 4116, which can be used as a description of a street. The origin comes from the verb πλάσσω/plassó, Strong’s 4111, which can be defined as ”forming/spreading/flattening out”. NE provides the information that it is connected to the French word plateau, of platel, which is a flat object.  

The above is no proof for that the earth is flat, but rather that the Biblical authors believed it was. If you want to learn why people believe in the flat earth, I recommend Mark Sargent’s Flat earth clues or the youtube channel ”Celebrate truth” (the latter from a Christian perspective).

You can read about ”the circle of the earth” from Is. 40:22 in this blog article.

Biblical examples of POLYGAMY – a marriage form not supported by God

ringarThe Bible – contains advice concerning the marriage between a man and a woman 

Biblical examples of polygamy further down below 

When it comes to the question of marriage and the relationship between a man and his wife, the Bible contains plenty of good advice from the apostle Paul and from Proverbs, but never about other marriage constellations (same-sex marriages or polygamy). This naturally suggests that other variations are not according to God’s plans.

Unfortunately God’s view of an ideal marriage is attacked by some people (there is even a name for them – liberals), and there are also people who try to find support for polygamy from the Bible. Nevertheless, the Bible explains on the first few pages that a marriage is a union between one man and one woman – for generations. No other variations are listed. The marriage union is intended to be:

  1. between a man and a woman
  2. between two individuals (who become one flesh with each other)
  3. unbreakable

Such a natural union is also ideal for the children who would then be born into a stable household, and each new generation would grow up with a mother and a father as role models. Men and women have different abilities and characteristics depending on their gender, and children benefit from both.

Gen. 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Prior to the time of Moses, marriages between cousins and siblings were legitimate (even if they might be rare), but then again Adam and Eve were created ”very good”, and had no deficient genes which might cause any defects in their children. Such risks did not arrive until much later due to gene pool bottlenecks.

If God would have accepted same-sex marriages, we would be able to find support for this somewhere in his word. Not only are there no such examples but we can find many warnings against this type of unnatural life style. If we choose to live against God’s intended purpose and creation order, we are also choosing to live a risky life style which could even lead to depression and an early death. In his great love, God wants something much better for us. If all people would adhere to God’s advice about this, there would be no room for any venereal diseases.

Rom. 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (NKJV)

Lev. 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

If something is an abomination in the old testament, it could not possibly be acceptable and right in the new testament.

LIST OF COMMONLY USED EXAMPLES OF POLYGAMY giftermål

Even if the ideal marriage union is between two persons, there are Biblical examples of men (never women) who have deviated from this rule and who have lived in a polygamous marriage with more than one woman. It is noteworthy that none of those marriages have been peaceful or successful.

God is not a fan of either polygamy or divorce but due to man’s own will and the hardness of the heart, God provides rules for the sake of the weaker part – the woman. During the time of the old testament there was no safety net for women apart from belonging to a household which could provide for her (and her children). A single woman who is neither a virgin or a widow would have great difficulties achieving a good standard of living with no protective laws giving her certain rights. As soon as people deviate from God’s intention, problems arise for one or more parties. In such cases one could only do the best of the situation. 

The first person we can read about living in a polygamous marriage is Lemech (Gen. 4:19) who was not a godly man. The book of Jasher provides more information about him and his wives, and discloses that he initially used only one wife for child-bearing.

Sometimes the reason for a polygamous marriage is not disclosed, but whenever it is disclosed among the godly men of the Bible, we can see that the reasons seem to be due to having been persuaded by a barren wife to have children with a handmaid, or possibly due to having been tricked into marrying more than one wife. These are not the reasons you would hear from Christian polygamy supporters today. They provide totally different reasons – none of them Biblical.

They might suggest that God accept polygamous marriages since there are plenty of Biblical examples of them, but they are almost always in relation to ungodly men. Yes, there are a few cases when it comes to godly men, but if you see the details in the list below it is evident that these cases still cannot be used as support. I do not list individuals who had multiple wives and who were never considered righteous in the first place, such as Jeroboam, Ahab, Jehoiakim, Jehoiachin, Esau, etc.

Concubines in the Bible among godly men: The practice of taking concubines as ”wives” was used to provide a male heir for a barren wife (Gen. 16, 35, 36), but concubines did not have the same status as wives. The sons of some concubines were treated as co-heirs with the sons of wives. Multiplying children through concubines would also increase the available family workforce and the family wealth and power. The practice of having concubines was NOT to meet the sexual desires of the males. The practice could even provide a social safety net for poor families who could sell their daughters in dire times ( Exod 21:7-10; Judges 19:1).

The list consists of the most commonly used Biblical examples when it comes to the attempt to support polygamy today.

1) Abraham 

Abraham allowed himself to be persuaded by his wife Sarah to go to bed with her maid Hagar in order to obtain a child with her. The reason for this was that Sarah herself was barren and likely eager to be pregnant with a son as per God’s promise. Perhaps Abraham was easily persuaded because he too was eager to see the divine promise fulfilled. Hagar did indeed become pregnant and gave birth to Ishmael. Even though a son was now born to Abraham and Sarah, it was still not the son of the promise. God had promised that Sarah would be giving birth to a son – and never suggested that she would make her own arrangements through another woman to see this promise fulfilled. Their second son Isaac was born by Sarah and he was the son of the promise. There have been many contentions between the  descendants of Isaac and Ishmael (even today).

Abraham also had a wife/concubine after Sarah’s death – Keturah, and Keturah and Hagar are likely the two concubines referred to in Gen. 25:6 (unless one would like to make a case about Abraham’s vague mentioning of Eliezer of Damascus which requires a blog post in itself and still would not prove yet another concubine).

Gen. 16:1 Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. — 4. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.

Gen. 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

Gen. 15:2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

1 Chron. 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

Jasher 16:29 And when Hagar saw that she had conceived she rejoiced greatly, and her mistress was despised in her eyes, and she said within herself, This can only be that I am better before God than Sarai my mistress, for all the days that my mistress has been with my lord, she did not conceive, but me the Lord has caused in so short a time to conceive by him.30 And when Sarai saw that Hagar had conceived by Abram, Sarai was jealous of her handmaid, and Sarai said within herself, This is surely nothing else but that she must be better than I am.31 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee, for at the time when thou didst pray before the Lord for children why didst thou not pray on my account, that the Lord should give me seed from thee?32 And when I speak to Hagar in thy presence, she despiseth my words, because she has conceived, and thou wilt say nothing to her; may the Lord judge between me and thee for what thou hast done to me.33 And Abram said to Sarai, Behold thy handmaid is in thy hand, do unto her as it may seem good in thy eyes; and Sarai afflicted her, and Hagar fled from her to the wilderness.

2) Jacob

Jacob was tricked by his uncle Laban to marry an extra wife – Laban’s oldest daughter Leah. Jacob himself had preferred to be married to his love Rachel alone, who was Laban’s younger daughter and was promised to Jacob. Even though Jacob was innocent, he could not make what happened undone, and with a promise to also get married to Rachel he accepted his fate of being the husband of two wives. This polygamous marriage of course produced problems when the sisters were jealous of each other, and due to being barren each of them managed to persuade Jacob two have children with their maids. Bilhah and Zilpah became Jacob’s wives as well and their offspring became his heirs.

Laban was actually a polygamist as well, but since this information is not from the Bible (but from the book of Jasher) I do not include him on my list. It might very well be true, but then again it cannot be used as support for a Christian polygamy since he was hardly a righteous man at all times. Since Jacob was tricked into marrying an extra wife, and since it was his wives who suggested additional wives due to the reason of being barren, this case cannot be used by polygamy supporters today.

Gen. 29:21 And Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for my days are fulfilled, that I may go in unto her. 22 And Laban gathered together all the men of the place, and made a feast.23 And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her.24 And Laban gave unto his daughter Leah Zilpah his maid for an handmaid.25 And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it was Leah: and he said to Laban, What is this thou hast done unto me? did not I serve with thee for Rachel? wherefore then hast thou beguiled me?26 And Laban said, It must not be so done in our country, to give the younger before the firstborn.27 Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.28 And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.29 And Laban gave to Rachel his daughter Bilhah his handmaid to be her maid.30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.31 And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.32 And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the Lord hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.33 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Because the Lord hath heard I was hated, he hath therefore given me this son also: and she called his name Simeon.

Gen. 30:1 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.2 And Jacob’s anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God’s stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?3 And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.4 And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.5 And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.6 And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.

Jasher 30:13 And Laban had no sons but only daughters, and his other wives and handmaids were still barren in those days; and these are the names of Laban’s daughters which his wife Adinah had borne unto him; the name of the elder was Leah and the name of the younger was Rachel; and Leah was tender-eyed, but Rachel was beautiful and well favored, and Jacob loved her. — 18 And in the fourth year of Jacob’s residence in the house of Laban, the Lord visited Laban and remembered him on account of Jacob, and sons were born unto him, and his first born was Beor, his second was Alib, and the third was Chorash. 19 And the Lord gave Laban riches and honor, sons and daughters, and the man increased greatly on account of Jacob.

Jasher 31:1 And in the seventh year, Jacob’s service which he served Laban was completed, and Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for the days of my service are fulfilled; and Laban did so, and Laban and Jacob assembled all the people of that place and they made a feast.2 And in the evening Laban came to the house, and afterward Jacob came there with the people of the feast, and Laban extinguished all the lights that were there in the house.3 And Jacob said unto Laban, Wherefore dost thou do this thing unto us? and Laban answered, Such is our custom to act in this land.4 And afterward Laban took his daughter Leah, and he brought her to Jacob, and he came to her and Jacob did not know that she was Leah.5 And Laban gave his daughter Leah his maid Zilpah for a handmaid.6 And all the people at the feast knew what Laban had done to Jacob, but they did not tell the thing to Jacob. 7 And all the neighbors came that night to Jacob’s house, and they ate and drank and rejoiced, and played before Leah upon timbrels, and with dances, and they responded before Jacob, Heleah, Heleah.— 10 And in the morning, when daylight appeared, Jacob turned to his wife and he saw, and behold it was Leah that had been lying in his bosom, and Jacob said, Behold now I know what the neighbors said last night, Heleah, they said, and I knew it not. — 12 And Laban answered Jacob, saying, Not so is it done in our place to give the younger before the elder now therefore if thou desirest to take her sister likewise, take her unto thee for the service which thou wilt serve me for another seven years.13 And Jacob did so, and he also took Rachel for a wife, and he served Laban seven years more, and Jacob also came to Rachel, and he loved Rachel more than Leah, and Laban gave her his maid Bilhah for a handmaid. — 17 And when Leah saw that she had left bearing, she also took her handmaid Zilpah, and she gave her to Jacob for a wife, and Jacob also came to Zilpah, and she also bare Jacob two sons, Gad and Asher.

3) King Saul

bible 4Saul only had one wife, but one concubine is also mentioned. According to the story about Saul, God regret making him a king rather early on. Since Saul ended up being a rebellious and unrighteous leader, his case cannot be used as support for polygamous marriages today.

1 Sam. 15:10 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying,11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night.

1 Sam. 16:14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

1 Sam. 18:12 And Saul was afraid of David, because the Lord was with him, and was departed from Saul.

1 Sam. 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

2 Sam. 3:7 And Saul had a concubine, whose name was Rizpah, the daughter of Aiah: and Ishbosheth said to Abner, Wherefore hast thou gone in unto my father’s concubine?

2 Sam. 21:11 And it was told David what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. — 

It is possible that Saul had additional concubines who are not mentioned. Nathan quotes the Lord as saying, “And I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more” (2 Sam. 12:8). Based on this information it seems like David inherited Saul’s wives, and we do not know the reason for this. See more below. David could have done it out of mercy, but also due to his impression that God would make David the king of Israel (and Jerusalem the capital city), which means David needed to be more powerful than his enemies. See more below.

4) King David

Eight of David’s wives are mentioned in the Bible. David started out marrying Saul’s daughter Michal, but later Saul gave her to someone else (1 Sam. 25:42-44). David eventually got her back (2 Sam. 3:13-14), but in the meantime he married two other women (1 Chron. 3:1-3), as well as additional four.

Later in his life he took still more wives and concubines (out of Jerusalem) and it seems like the motivation for those marriages was connected to God making him king of Israel and Jerusalem the capital city. David’s own words just prior to the information about those latest wives David perceived that the Lord had established him king over Israel, and that he had exalted his kingdom for his people Israel’s sake”. David was likely under the impression that he could accomplish God’s goal much easier if he could produce more heirs and also bond with many different families to eliminate enemies. Are these extra wives former concubines of Saul?

Nathan quotes the Lord as saying, “And I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more” (2 Sam. 12:8). Based on this information it seems like David inherited Saul’s wives, and we do not know the reason for this. David could have done it out of mercy, but also due to the reason mentioned above – David thinking bonding with different families would make him powerful enough to withstand his enemies when uniting Israel. This reason is hard to use today as support for polygamy among Christians.

This does not mean that it was God’s idea that David should take many wives, but it certainly seems like God tolerated it. If the extra wives were Saul’s, the damage had already been done.

1 Sam. 18:27 Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king’s son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.28 And Saul saw and knew that the Lord was with David, and that Michal Saul’s daughter loved him.

1 Sam. 25:39 And when David heard that Nabal was dead, he said, Blessed be the Lord, that hath pleaded the cause of my reproach from the hand of Nabal, and hath kept his servant from evil: for the Lord hath returned the wickedness of Nabal upon his own head. And David sent and communed with Abigail, to take her to him to wife. —  43 David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel; and they were also both of them his wives.44 But Saul had given Michal his daughter, David’s wife, to Phalti the son of Laish, which was of Gallim.

2 Samuel 3:1 Now there was long war between the house of Saul and the house of David: but David waxed stronger and stronger, and the house of Saul waxed weaker and weaker.2 And unto David were sons born in Hebron: and his firstborn was Amnon, of Ahinoam the Jezreelitess;3 And his second, Chileab, of Abigail the wife of Nabal the Carmelite; and the third, Absalom the son of Maacah the daughter of Talmai king of Geshur;4 And the fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith; and the fifth, Shephatiah the son of Abital;5 And the sixth, Ithream, by Eglah David’s wife. These were born to David in Hebron.

2 Samuel 5:12 And David perceived that the Lord had established him king over Israel, and that he had exalted his kingdom for his people Israel’s sake.13 And David took him more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.14 And these be the names of those that were born unto him in Jerusalem; Shammuah, and Shobab, and Nathan, and Solomon,15 Ibhar also, and Elishua, and Nepheg, and Japhia,16 And Elishama, and Eliada, and Eliphalet.17 But when the Philistines heard that they had anointed David king over Israel, all the Philistines came up to seek David; and David heard of it, and went down to the hold.

1 Chron. 14:2 And David perceived that the Lord had confirmed him king over Israel, for his kingdom was lifted up on high, because of his people Israel.3 And David took more wives at Jerusalem: and David begat more sons and daughters.

5) Solomo

Salomo had no less than 700 wives and 300 concubines, and it was due to the love of many strange women. Despite God’s commandments to not have relations with strange women, he did so anyway.

1 King 7:8 And his house where he dwelt had another court within the porch, which was of the like work. Solomon made also an house for Pharaoh’s daughter, whom he had taken to wife, like unto this porch.

1 King 9:16 For Pharaoh king of Egypt had gone up, and taken Gezer, and burnt it with fire, and slain the Canaanites that dwelt in the city, and given it for a present unto his daughter, Solomon’s wife.

2 Chron. 8:11 And Solomon brought up the daughter of Pharaoh out of the city of David unto the house that he had built for her: for he said, My wife shall not dwell in the house of David king of Israel, because the places are holy, whereunto the ark of the Lord hath come.

1 King. 11:1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.

6) Gideongideon

Gideon was considered to be a wise and God-fearing man who considered God’s ways being the most important. He was not entirely faithful though, since we can read about a great sin when he made an ephod out of gold which all of Israel used as an idol. Since Gideon clearly was not obedient to the end, neither his case could not be used as support for polygamy among Christians.

Judg. 6:12 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him, and said unto him, The Lord is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

Judg. 8 27 And Gideon made an ephod thereof, and put it in his city, even in Ophrah: and all Israel went thither a whoring after it: which thing became a snare unto Gideon, and to his house — 30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.31 And his concubine that was in Shechem, she also bare him a son, whose name he called Abimelech.

7) Elkanah  

Elkanah is described as a God-fearing man but his choice to have two wives caused trouble in his household – just like all polygamous marriages do. A common problem occurs if one wife gives birth to children and not the other, when various negative feelings will follow. According to this story, it was even God who made Hannah barren, and could this be for a reason? Perhaps it was a way for her to put all her focus on God and to seek his divine plans for her and her son? Did God feel that she deserved to be sad for a while since she had accepted to become a wife to a man who was already married? I am only speculating. Elkanah’s case is not enough to suggest that God is for Christian polygamous marriages.

1 Sam. 1:1 Now there was a certain man of Ramathaimzophim, of mount Ephraim, and his name was Elkanah, the son of Jeroham, the son of Elihu, the son of Tohu, the son of Zuph, an Ephrathite:2 And he had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah: and Peninnah had children, but Hannah had no children.3 And this man went up out of his city yearly to worship and to sacrifice unto the Lord of hosts in Shiloh. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, the priests of the Lord, were there. — 5 But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the Lord had shut up her womb.6 And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the Lord had shut up her womb.7 And as he did so year by year, when she went up to the house of the Lord, so she provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat.

8) Abijah

Abijah had great faith in God and his power, but why were not pagan altars and idols broken down during his own rule? Why did the people have to wait for his son Asa to do this job after his father’s death? Perhaps such altars were even erected in the end of Abijah’s life, like around the time when he started to marry multiple wives. When God is communicating with Jehoram in 2 Chron. 21:12 he (God) mentions Asa and Jehoshaphat as individuals who walked his ways, but he does not mentioned Abijah. 

2 Chron. 13:5 Ought ye not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt? — 21 But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives, and begat twenty and two sons, and sixteen daughters.

2 Chron. 14:1 So Abijah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead. In his days the land was quiet ten years.2 And Asa did that which was good and right in the eyes of the Lord his God:For he took away the altars of the strange gods, and the high places, and brake down the images, and cut down the groves:

9) Rehoboam

Rehoboam’s reason for polygamy was that he desired many wives. He is yet another who forsook the Lord and can therefore not be counted as a righteous believer in a polygamous marriage.

2 Chron. 11:17 So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong, three years: for three years they walked in the way of David and Solomon.

2 Chron. 12:1 And it came to pass, when Rehoboam had established the kingdom, and had strengthened himself, he forsook the law of the Lord, and all Israel with him.

10) Jehoram

Also Jehoram fell away from God, so neither his case could be used as support for Christian polygamy today.

2 Chron. 21:9 Then Jehoram went forth with his princes, and all his chariots with him: and he rose up by night, and smote the Edomites which compassed him in, and the captains of the chariots.10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.11 Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and compelled Judah thereto.12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,13 But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father’s house, which were better than thyself:14 Behold, with a great plague will the Lord smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods:15 And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.16 Moreover the Lord stirred up against Jehoram the spirit of the Philistines, and of the Arabians, that were near the Ethiopians.

11) Joash

It may not have been Joash’s own idea to be a bigamist since we can read that it was his Father Jehoiada who arranged it. We do not know when Joash were provided his wives (and when the marriage was consummated) but Joash officially started to reign when he was 7 years old. He was a righteous man to begin with, but we can also read that he was disobedient to God and fell away serving other gods.

2 Chron. 24:2 And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the Lord all the days of Jehoiada the priest. And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters. — 17 Now after the death of Jehoiada came the princes of Judah, and made obeisance to the king. Then the king hearkened unto them.18 And they left the house of the Lord God of their fathers, and served groves and idols: and wrath came upon Judah and Jerusalem for this their trespass.19 Yet he sent prophets to them, to bring them again unto the Lord; and they testified against them: but they would not give ear

12) Moses?

The Bible does not explicitly state that Moses had another wife apart from Zipporah. She was the daughter of Reuel, the priest of Midian, but this Midian priest and Moses father-in-law apparently changed his name to Jethro later on (Ex. 2)Num. 12:1 mentions a Cushite woman and even if this woman is likely not the same as Zipporah, it is possible that she is Moses second wife after the death of his first wife. Ex. 4:20 mentions only one wife of Moses.

Moses was generally a righteous man, but he did not always obey God. He killed an Egyptian guard (who was assaulting a Hebrew slave) and Ex. 4:24-26 provides another example where Moses contrary to God’s wish did not want to circumcise his son.

Above is the whole list of candidates! Not much to hinge Christian polygamous marriages on.

brudparBible verses which support the marriage between 1 man and 1 woman

Below are some Bible verses which show God’s intended purpose with a marriage union. You will never see any examples of same-sex marriages, and you will never see support for a polygamous marriage:

Prov. 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?21 For the ways of man are before the eyes of the Lord, and he pondereth all his goings.

Prov. 12:4 A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.

Prov. 30:17 The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.18 There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not:19 The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

Prov. 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.

Ps. 128:Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.4 Behold, that thus shall the man be blessed that feareth the Lord.

Below you can see what the law of Moses says about the marriage, as well as the words from Jesus Christ:

Deut. 25:If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband’s brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband’s brother unto her.6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.7 And if the man like not to take his brother’s wife, then let his brother’s wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband’s brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband’s brother.8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her;9 Then shall his brother’s wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother’s house.

Deut. 17:14 When thou art come unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;—-17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

Deut. 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

Matt. 22:24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.27 And last of all the woman died also.28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

Matt. 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matt. 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

Mark. 10:2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Paul provides living instructions for man and woman in a marriage unionchurch9

If Paul would be open for other alternatives than the natural marriage between a man and a woman, he had many chances to say so but he does the contrary – warns against them. Paul says that the man is the head of the woman and that the wife does not have power of her own body but the husband and vice versa, but what if there are even more women in the marriage or what if there is no man at all? Who has the power over which body, and who is the head of the family? Paul does not say, which naturally indicates that there are no such alternatives.   

1 Cor. 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. — 10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?—27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.— 29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;—33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.—39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

Eph. 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;—28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.— 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

Col. 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

God does not produce rules because he hates us, but because he loves us and wants children to grow up in stable homes with a mother and a father.

10 Bible verses /examples commonly used to support the sinful nature – refutation

bebis2Man’s idea to add original sin to the Bible

The idea of original sin, or the sinful nature from birth, was first pushed by Augustine who was a former gnostic. Augustine is guilty of having introduced many unbiblical ideas into church, and  some of them were later also taught by both Luther and Calvin. The old church fathers before Augustine did not teach the sinful nature (see here), and most importantly the Bible does not. Below are some of the most common verses used as an attempt to prove the sinful nature.

Example 1) Romans 5:12

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man SIN entered into the world, and death by sin; and so DEATH passed upon all men, FOR that all have sinned

Comment: Sin entered the world the first time through Adam, because no one had sinned before him (him and Eve). The verse does not say that SIN passed upon all men but DEATH passed upon all men, and it also explains why this is: Because all have sinned! Not because all have inherited sins from Adam. Notice that ”all men” is a translation from the Greek word ἄνθρωπος (anthrópos, Strong’s 444) and could mean 1) men, 2) men and women, or 3) mankind, people, human beings. It may or may not include babies depending on context. Since the verse claims that we die (spiritually) because we have sinned, this verse cannot be used as support for another idea – like the idea that we die spiritually because we have inherited someone else’s sin. Dying physically is something different, and even Jesus Christ died a physical death. It is possible to say that we die physically due to Adam, because we cannot reach the tree of life due to him.

Example 2) Romans 5:18

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation — 19 so by the obedience of one shall MANY be made righteous.

Comment: The entire context is this:

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation; EVEN SO by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man’s disobedience MANY were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall MANY be made righteous.

If ALL are automatically condemned through Adam, then ALL are automatically made righteous through Jesus. Are 100% of all ALL PEOPLE automatically righteous in Jesus? No, that would be universalism. It is not proper hermeneutics to read ”all” in two different ways in the same sentence – an ”even so” indicates a valid comparison. If ALL die in Adam, then the very same ALL are saved in Christ. If ”many” (not all) were made righteous, then ”many” (not all) were made sinners. We cannot make one absolute and the other conditional. If, however, we add conditions on both accounts (we die spiritually if we sin like Adam, and we become alive in Christ if we choose to believe in him) then we have solved all contradictions. Rom. 5 does list conditions, just like the rest of Romans and just like the rest of the Bible.

Example 3) 1 Corinthians 15:22 

1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Comment: If all people are automatically dead in Adam, then the very same ”all people” are automatically saved in Christ. But this interpretation leads to universalism, and we know this is not true. The context makes it clear that the subject is the RESURRECTION and what will happen when Jesus returns. Most importantly what will happen to those in Christ. They will die physically just like Adam (even Jesus Christ once died physically), and they will be made alive to get their judgments and rewards.

Example 4) Ephesians 2:1

Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Comment: What makes us dead? Sinning makes us (spiritually) dead! It is not being born (or being conceived) which makes us dead, but it is transgressing of his law:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Is. 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Eph. 2 does not say that we are BORN dead in trespasses and sins. How can newborn babies choose to transgress the law of God?

The solution to the problem of sin is to repent, which explains why Paul in Acts 17:30 says that God ”now commandeth all men every where to repent”.

Example 5) Ephesians 2:2-3

Eph. 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Comment: Do not get fooled by the term ”children of disobedience” or ”children of wrath” because these terms refer to those who follow Satan – as the text indicates. Likewise the term ”children of God” (or sons of God) does not necessarily refer to little toddlers, but to those who have chosen to believe and follow God. The text certainly does not claim that people are BORN as children of wrath – merely for the ”crime” of existing. It is crystal clear that those spoken about in Eph. 2:2 are adults. They:

  • have a need or reason to be ”quickened”
  • perform TRESPASSES and SINS and through them be dead
  • walk according to the world
  • walk according to Satan (the prince of the power of the air)
  • are disobedient through following Satan
  • walk in the lusts of their flesh
  • fulfill the desires of their flesh
  • fulfill the desires of their mind

Example 6) 1 Corinthians 2:14

1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

Comment: It is a bad idea to be a natural man, which is a man who lives of the world. If someone is a natural man (which is no obligation), he cannot please God. It is impossible for a person to please God if he at the same time chooses to walk in darkness.

”Natural” is a translation from ψυχικός (psuchikos, Strong’s 5591) and could also be translated ”worldly-minded” or ”sensual”. It describes the behavior of a carnal man who lives of the world. The word can be contrasted with ”spiritual” (pneumatikós, Strong’s 4152).

Example 7) Job 25:4 + Job 15:14

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? 5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be CLEAN? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?15 Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.16 How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?

Comment: The first comment is from Bildad, and the second one is from Eliphaz. They did not always provide good advice to Job. On top of this, the book of Job is replete with poetic expressions. See for instance Job 1:21 and see if you read it in a literal sense.

Example 8) Romans 3:10

Rom. 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Comment: Paul, who made the above statement that no one is righteous, called HIMSELF righteous, along with Silas and Timothy (see 1 Thess. 2:10) and he constantly requested that people should avoid obeying their flesh and be righteous. Paul also said (Acts 23:1) that he had lived ”in all good conscience before God until this day”. (NASB: ”perfectly good conscience”). Paul urged his readers to ”sin no more”! Was Paul a hypocrite or a man of God who we can trust?

Paul was in Rom. 3:10 referring to a couple of well-known psalms where we can read ”there is none righteous ….” and if we go to these psalms (Psalm 14 and Psalm 53) we can see the proper context to this phrase. There we can read about unrighteous people, called FOOLS, who do not seek God but we can also read about righteous people who DO seek God. Psalms contain poetic expressions which are mirroring the truth, so we should carefully keep this in mind.

We can read in Acts 17 that we are created precisely to seek God, even though he is not far away from any of us. We can also read verses such as:

Jer. 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart 

Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you

Below are more psalms, and it would be unwise for us to start new doctrines (which are not supported by non-poetic verses) based on such poetry. Poetic expressions can of course teach us things and be encouraging, but it is not always correct to read poetic texts in a literal sense.

Example 9) Psalm 51:5

Ps. 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me  

Comment: This verse is not about all people in the entire world but concerns only David and his mother. It could be understood both figuratively (the way also king David has battled with dark powers and obstacles very early on) or literally (David’s mother was indeed sinning during the conception) but either way, this verse does not say that we have all inherited Adam’s sin and have a sinful nature from birth. David starts out speaking about his own transgression (not sins inherited from another), and we can read claims from David which could not possibly be understood in a literal sense:

Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice…

Example 10) Psalm 58:3

Ps. 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, SPEAKING LIES  

Comment: Naturally newborn babies cannot speak, much less speak lies. This is just a poetic expression to describe that the wicked man go astray very early on and usually continue on this path. The psalmist starts out addressing a ”congregation” and apparently they are old enough to SPEAK since they are asked if they speak righteousness. They are also old enough to JUDGE, they are able to WORK WICKEDNESS in their hearts and WEIGH the violence of their hands. Babies are unable to do any of that, and it is the WICKED who ”are estrange”. If someone goes astray, it means he must have started from a position where it was not ”astray”. In verse 10 and 11 we can read about righteous people who do NOT go astray:

10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. 11So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.

Some people might ask: ”If we are not born with a sinful nature, why do we sin?” Well, why did Adam and Eve sin? Certainly not due to a sinful nature. They might also ask ”If we are not born with a sinful nature, why did Jesus have to die for us?”. Because we have chosen to sin – despite that we did not have to. This is what makes us guilty.

If we are born with a sinful nature (which would provide an excellent excuse for sin), why does the Bible not disclose this important piece of information anywhere? Why can we read the exact opposite story? Moreover, the idea of the sinful nature actually reduces the great deeds that Jesus Christ did for us, when we accuse him of not having to struggle with a sinful nature as the rest of us. In reality, Jesus was tempted in all things just like us and he did not get an advantage.

rom-8The Bible says that babies are innocent

While there are no Bible verses which say we are born with a sinful nature (or born depraved, which is not even a word included in the KJV Bible), the Bible does say that we are wonderfully made.

Zecharia 12:1  The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and FORMETH THE SPIRIT OF MAN WITHIN HIM. 

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet bornNEITHER HAVING DONE ANY GOOD OR EVIL, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God AS A LITTLE CHILD, he shall not enter therein.

Isaiah 7:16 For BEFORE THE CHILD SHALL KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL, AND CHOOSE THE GOOD, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. 

Isaiah 42:Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and SPIRIT to them that walk therein

Job. 31:14 What then shall I do when God riseth up? and when he visiteth, what shall I answer him?15 Did not HE THAT MADE ME IN THE WOMB make him? and DID NOT ONE FASHION US IN THE WOMB? 

Ps. 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.14 I will praise thee; for I AM FEARFULLY AND WONDERFULLY MADE: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Ps,73 Thy hands have made me and FASHIONED ME: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.  

Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that GOD HATH MADE MAN UPRIGHT; but THEY they have sought out many inventions.  

Biblical examples of bad / unregenerate / spiritually dead people who seek God and do good

acts 17 27We are created to seek and find God

Our reformed friends often claim that we cannot seek God, repent or do good unless God monergistically ”regenerates” us, which is a term that they unfortunately interpret as God making us see and enabling us (actually forcing us) to seek him and come to him. The Bible, however, explains that we are all created to seek and find God, and that he is not far away from any of us:

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but NOW COMMANDETH ALL MEN EVERY WHERE TO REPENT.  

Every single man (all people) has been given the light, and if we receive him and believe in him, God will give us the power to become the sons of God. It does not say the other way around; that God gives light to some people and gives them power so that they can believe in him.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, WHICH LIGHTETH EVERY MAN THAT COMETH INTO THE WORLD.10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

Each time an atheist decides to not sin, it is surely a good thing. There are loads of atheists every day who do many good deeds by being helpful to complete strangers without expecting anything in return. This does not mean they are saved, but it shows that we can all do good. Seeking God and repent are good things which bad people are requested to do, and they are created by God to do so. If a person does not repent, the blame must be on him and not on God.

1. The prodigal son

The prodigal son came to his senses while living in deep sin away from his Father. He made a good decision to repent for his sins and return to his Father. He went from being alive, to being dead (due to sin), to being alive again:

Luke 15: 24 For this my son WAS DEAD, and is ALIVE AGAIN; he WAS LOST, and IS FOUND. And they began to be merry.—30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.—32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was DEAD, and is ALIVE AGAIN AGAIN; and was LOST, and is FOUND. 

The prodigal son was clearly dead while living with prostitutes (Luke 15:30). The below verse is a good description of his status and (unless he repented), his future would be corruption – which means spiritual death since it is contrasted with everlasting life:

Gal. 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

2. Rahab, the harlot

Rahab rescued the Joshua’s men, which was a good thing to do. It is quite possible that she decided to rescue these strangers because she was aware of their God who was the God of both heaven and earth – which would include herself. She wanted them to swear by this Lord to return her kindness and letting her and her family stay alive. James says that she was justified by works (she combined faith and good deeds):

Josh. 2:9 And she said unto the men, I know that the Lord hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.10 For we have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the Lord your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.12 Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the Lord, since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father’s house, and give me a true token:13 And that ye will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death.

Josh. 6:17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the Lord: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.

Ja 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

3. Barbarian islanders of Malta

Barbarian inhabitants of Malta showed much kindness to Paul and his companions, and showed this compassion for them due to troublesome rain and cold. These islanders were not ”regenerated” because afterwards they thought that Paul was guilty of murder in his past and that he was justly bitten by a viper as a punishment for his past deeds (Acts 28:4).

Acts 28:1 And when they were escaped, then they knew that the island was called Melita.And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire, and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold.

4. Evil fathers

Also evil people can do good to the children (which surely is a good thing), and even give good gifts to them. It is definitely possible to find multiple atheists who are being nothing but kind to their children, and even towards relatives, friends as well as complete strangers. There are even non-believing soldiers at war who have even given their lives for other fighting men.

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

5. Everyone

Peter asks everyone to repent (that would be both good and bad). If they do so, they shall receive the gift of the holy Ghost. It is not the other way around; that God gives the holy Ghost to certain people and in that way they enabling them (and forcing them) to repent.

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

6. Cornelius was not certainly not a bad person, but before he (and his family and friends) received the holy Spirit he had faith and did good

Cornelius with all his house feared God, and he gave much alms to people and constantly prayed to God. His urgent prayers, fasting and alms-giving were noticed by God who sent an angel to him in a vision. Prior to Peter’s visit to his house Cornelius had collected family members and friends who were all waiting for Peter’s arrival. Peter came and explained that he believed that Cornelius (and maybe his company too since Peter addressed them all) already knew the word of God – the gospel about Jesus Christ. ”— Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)37 That word, I say, ye know”. This means that they had faith, and consequently had good deeds to go with their faith (faith without works is dead) before any of them had received the holy Ghost. 

Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. 5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.—

22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.—24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.

30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.— 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

8. Saul/Paul

Unlike Cornelius Paul was not a humble person but rather a dangerous pharisee. He saw Jesus in a vision on the way to Damascus, and fortunately he was not disobedient to the call that the vision involved. He obeyed the Lord Jesus and visited Ananias who was a child of God. Not until three days after the vision was Paul filled with the holy Ghost, with Ananias as a tool.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision

Other examplessin

I can also mention Lydia, who was already a God-fearing and worshipping woman when God opened he heart to attend the things spoken by Paul. (It does not say that God selected Lydia and opened her heart to believe.) She obviously already had the right mind and heart to hear and understand the deeper things of God presented by Paul. It is always a good choice to not be ”a natural man”. 

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. 

Acts 16:14 and a certain woman, by name Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, worshipping God, was hearing, whose heart the Lord did open to attend to the things spoken by Paul (YLT)

People can also do bad things even though they are fully capable, and expected, to do good.

God expected Cain to rule over sin and naturally understood that he was created with this capacity. Still, Cain slew his brother against God’s will. Cain was already a sinner before this time, since he did not react well do God’s rejection of his offering (which makes one wonder about the condition the fruit since God rejected it).

Gen. 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fellAnd the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

Do read my article about regeneration not preceding faith here.

15 Bible verses Calvinists misinterpret in relation to God’s SOVEREIGN WILL

tulips 3Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST THE HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, so do ye. Acts 7:51 

15 examples of failed attempts to show that God’s will always happens below, but first this…

The best way to avoid misunderstandings, such as the preposterous idea that God decrees absolutely all things, is to read the context! Anyone can take a Bible verse here and there and build any doctrine at all, but it is a lot safer to read the entire chapter to see the intent of the author. It is particularly important to not build a new doctrine based on poetry or proverbs, since such wordings might be vague and oftentimes should not be taken literally. Also books like Job contains large amount of poetic expressions, such as this example:

Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and NAKED SHALL I RETURN THITHER: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

We might also be able to find intentional hyperboles or intentional exaggerations to make a point:

Matt. 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

It is clear that God’s will does not always come about in this world:

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, IS NOT OF THE FATHER, but is of the world.17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF GOD abideth for ever.

Notice that John writes ”he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever”. If all people everywhere and at all times did the will of God, then all people would abide for ever. Clearly all people will not be saved, and that is due to their disobedience – due to acting contrary to God’s will.

This is the filter we should use when reading the Bible:

Ja. 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, NEITHER TEMPTETH HE ANY MAN:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

God does not tempt anyone, much less causes people to sin. We should never blame man’s sins on God at any time. In order to be consistent with TULIP, Calvinists must disagree with all verses which tell us that sin happens against God’s will. For example, Calvinist R.C. Sproul says:

“If there is one single molecule in this universe running around loose, totally free of God’s sovereignty, then we have no guarantee that a single promise of God will ever be fulfilled.” (R.C. Sproul, Chosen By God: Know God’s Perfect Plan for His Glory and His Children)

”Sovereign” and ”sovereignty” are words not included in the Bible (KJV), which means they must be defined. Free-willers do not have a problem with a sovereign God, but they certainly do not agree with the Calvinistic interpretation of this word. Calvinists normally understand this word to mean something like ”God decrees ALL THINGS at all times, resulting in that every single action taken by man always turns out exactly as God wants. He can do anything at all and nothing is too difficult for him – except from creating man with free will”.

Some favorite verses by those who prefer blaming God for man’s sin

Example 1:calvinsm 49

Rom. 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

My comment: Has it ever happened throughout history that someone has found fault in God and his actions? Yes, right? The Bible is replete with examples of people who refuse to obey him, rebel against him and cause him to be angry. So this verse is not what man cannot do but should not do. If God’s will is to offer salvation also for the gentiles (showing mercy also to them) and make faith the condition for salvation rather than being born a Jew under the Mosaic law, then who is able to resist this decision? No one. Who can resist his will? The context and the rest of the Bible render it impossible to interpret Rom. 9:18 as ”Therefore he makes salvation possible for only some individuals, whereas he blocks the rest from ever being able to seek him or find him.” Such an interpretation would make God alone guilty of man’s unbelief, and hell would be a place where innocent and rejected people would end up who had no chance to be saved (since God successfully prevented them from believing in him). Does that sound like the God of the Bible? You can read more about Romans 9 and Pharao’s heart here, here and here.

Example 2:

Eph. 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,— 11 IN HIM also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will

My comment: The promises in Eph. 1-2 are tied to those who are IN CHRIST, and being IN HIM is an essential foundation and the condition for salvation. From the creation of the world God knew there would be a ”body of Christ” (the church, consisting of believers), and a special place is prepared for them in God’s kingdom where this body of Christ is predestined to go. So the ”salvation bus” is certainly going there, but who will be the passengers on the bus and who will endure to the very end? That is up to us. If we are in Christ we know that we are heading for God’s kingdom if we remain in the bus. The ”us” spoken about in the verse are true believers and therefore ”adopted” as God’s children. (This type of adoption should not be compared to what we call ”adoption” today, where parents are being promised a baby who they later legally adopt as their legal child.)

Compare also with this verse:

”John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name

So the order of even is 1) receive and believe in him, and then 2) become children of God. You can read more about Eph. 2 here.

Example 3:

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

My comment: We are totally lost without Jesus who is our Savior, so he is rightfully the author and finisher of our faith. He made the wonderful salvation plan possible for us (he died for us on the cross), and he has promised to never cast us out but rather give us a crown of life if we endure to the end. It is Jesus from start to finish. Hebr. 12:2 should not be interpreted as ”Jesus causes certain people to have faith and is responsible for guarding their faith to the very end, whereas the rest are doomed from birth since Jesus never died for them or enabled them to get saved”.  Read more here.

Example 4

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure

My comment:

The verses surrounding the above verse are:

”Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness”

Also this passage focuses on God’s mighty power, and that there is no one like him. Knowing things in advance is not the same as predestining things in advance. Calvinists make a hen out of a feather when it comes to the word ”declaring”, as though this would mean that God predestines all things. According to v. 12 there are apparently people who are stouthearted and far from righteous, which is normally something God does not approve of. It is a silly idea that God would predestine people to be stouthearted. ”My councel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure”. Does this include creating man with free will and making man responsible for his actions, and sometimes even punish man for his sins?

Example 5:

Dan. 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Comment:

Yes God does according to this will, and since he is our Creator and knows best. It would not make sense to argue with him or suggest that he should not have done things the way he did. Unfortunately, people have indeed complained to God and continued to question his motives (and sometimes his mere existence), so this verse is not about what man cannot do but should not do. Could it be God’s will to punish the fallen angels (who acted contrary to his will), and to create man with free will? Or is this outside his capabilities?

Example 6:

Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

Comment: The above verses are from KJV, just like the rest of the verses. There are other Bible versions which Calvinists might prefer because of other expressions, but John 42:2 only confirms that God knows everything there is to know.

Example 7:

Lam. 3:37 Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

Comment: This is also about a general statement about God’s magnificent power rather than a teaching that God predestines all of our steps (including sin). We can continue reading in the same context:

”39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the Lord.41 Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens.42 We have transgressed and have rebelled: thou hast not pardoned.43 Thou hast covered with anger, and persecuted us: thou hast slain, thou hast not pitied.”

Here we read about man complaining about the punishments for his sins (apparently it is possible to complain to God after all), and ”sins” would be activities against God’s will. The advice to ”turn again to the Lord” means that people previously turned their backs on God. The fact that people ”transgressed and have rebelled” yet again means that we are able to act contrary to God’s will. Furthermore, we can read about God being ”angry” and have ”persecuted” people due to their actions (transgressions and rebellion), which is more evidence of man’s free will.

Example 8:

Exodus 4:11 And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man’s mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord?

Comment: The context concerns Moses’ reluctance to becoming Israel’s leader due to his (Moses) shortcomings in relation to his ability to public speaking. Moses said: ”O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.” God can accomplish things despite our shortcomings, and he can even heal people. If he asks us to do something, we can totally trust that he will help us overcome our weaknesses. That seems to be the gist of what God wanted to express when Moses argued against God about his shortcomings. Moses had to be persuaded, and he finally gave in after a conversation with God. God is not suggesting that he is the one who forces people to be deaf, blind, poor, etc, but he rather explains that he is the author of all Creation and he can be trusted.

Example 9:

1 Sam. 2:6 The Lord killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.The Lord maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

Comment: The surrounding verses are these:

6 The Lord killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.— 8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them.9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.”

This is a description with poetic expressions describing God’s power and his future judgment of mankind. Depending on how we choose to live our live, based on our situation and opportunities, we will be punished or rewarded. Read what the author says about the poor. Will God always lift up the beggar and set him among princes here on earth? No, this is not a universal promise for the present dimension but for the future.

calvinism 40Example 10:

Isaiah 45: 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Comment: The above is in the KJV, but in the NKJV and in many other Bible versions it is rather ”calamity” instead of ”evil”. The Hebrew word could mean both, as well as a few other alternatives. God can indeed cause physical calamity just like he did when he caused a global flood to hit the earth. Physical pain or punishments caused by God does not mean that he causes people to sin. There is no darkness in God.

Example 11:

2 Chron. 25:20 But Amaziah would not hear; for it came of God, that he might deliver them into the hand of their enemies, because they sought after the gods of Edom.

Comment: Apparently the reason that ”it came of God” that Amaziah would not hear – resulting in that he and his people were delivered into the hand of their enemies – was because they turned to other gods in Edom. There you have the reason. Did God want them to turn to false gods? Hardly. The most important commandment is to have no other gods but God. Compare with Romans 1 where we can read about God giving up people to a reprobate mind due to their ungodly attitudes. At one point Amaziah followed the Lord, but he later turned away.

”27 Now after the time that Amaziah did turn away from following the Lord they made a conspiracy against him in Jerusalem; and he fled to Lachish: but they sent to Lachish after him, and slew him there.”

Example 12

Jer. 10:23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to DIRECT HIS STEPS

The context is this:

”21 For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the Lord: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.Behold, the noise of the report has come, And a great commotion out of the north country, To make the cities of Judah desolate, a den of jackals.—25 Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name: for they have eaten up Jacob, and devoured him, and consumed him, and have made his habitation desolate.”

Comment: Notice above that that there are people who have not sought God, like heathens or families that did not call on the name of the Lord. Clearly this is not according to God’s will. A man is not supposed to turn his back on God by not seeking his guidance, and walk on his own ways. If a man does not seek God, he will not be guided on the right path. Read more here.

Example 13

1 Sam. 2:25 If one man sins against another, God will judge him. But if a man sins against the Lord, who will intercede for him?” Nevertheless they did not heed the voice of their father, because the Lord desired to kill them.

Comment: According to Adam Clarke the particle ki, translated ”because”, is better translated ”therefore” just like it does in many other parts of the Bible. (Young’s literal translation reads ”though”.) This means that God wanted to kill the individuals in the story due to their refusal to listen to their father’s voice. This is a more logical translation than rendering the passage as though God wants to kill certain people for no reason, and manipulates them into not listening to their father and then proceeds to take this as an excuse for killing them. That would be circular reasoning and would turn God into an unrighteous criminal. Sadly many Calvinists would rather turn God into a monster than letting go with their precious philosophy of Calvinism.

Example 14 – Psalms

Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Psalm 135:6 Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.

Psalm 33:10 The Lord bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

My comment: Psalms often contain poetry which mirrors the reality in many ways, so we must approach the verses with this in mind. Yes, God has always done whatever he has pleases, but naturally this could include creating man with free will. What the context of these psalms has in common is the declaration that God is the great and magnificent Creator, and that false gods (which are no gods) cannot compete with his wonderful powers.

Psalm 33:15 says ”He fashioneth their hearts alike; he considereth all their works”, which is a description of how God has originally made man and also judges their work. It does not say that God micromanages every single step that man takes, nor that man does not have a will of his own. If you think ”The Lord bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought” means that God first manipulates the heathens to come up with various evil schemes, and then turns around and ”heroically” halts these plans that he himself initiated, then you are mistaken. It is just a poetic description of God’s power which the heathens cannot interfere with. The verse does not say that God either prevents people from sinning, or predestines their sin. During Jesus’ second coming, he will only have to breathe on the son of perdition to destroy him completely (2 Thess. 2:8), so the power of God is indeed great.

Example 15 – Proverbs

Prov. 16:4 The Lord has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. (NKJV)

Prov. 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord.

Prov. 21:1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

My comment: Also proverbs contains poetry, so we must keep this in mind. Instead of having to ignore loads of verses which show that God is angry with sin and where he desires all men to obey his commandments, it is better to read the more vague proverbs and psalms in context and not superimpose them over clear verses. The first verse just shows God’s right to handle all judgment of mankind, whether people are righteous or unrighteous. Read more about these verses here. Neither of these verses contains promises that God predestines every all things. That would put all the blame on God.

calvinism 27If God’s will always happens, then why does the Bible say the opposite?

Mark 3:35  For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother.

I thought all people did the will of God? Are all people his brothers, sisters and mothers?

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven.

”He that doeth the will of my Father”? If everyone would always do the will of God then everyone would enter the kingdom of God.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and DOETH HIS WILL, him he heareth.

”If any man—doeth his will”? Jesus separates those who worship God and obey him (doeth his will) with those who are sinners. This suggests that sinners are not doing the will of God, unless sinning is according to his will.

1 Timothy 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Has this so far happened?

Heb. 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Clearly people constantly act against the will of God. Today and in the past.