Etikettarkiv | verses

List of Bible verses that show a flat earth with a firmament

Bible verses showing that the earth is flat and immovable

”Yea, hath God said — ?” (Gen. 3:1)

If we are to be really honest with ourselves, the Bible is a geocentric flat earth book and there is no question about it. If we also add the book of Enoch, the matter is completely settled. This is not proof that the earth is flat, but it is evidence that the Bible teaches it. Let this not be a matter of salvation. It is not a sin to believe that the earth is in the center of God’s creation and that it is immovable, standing on four pillars, has four corners, is likened to a footstool, has a firmament above it containing the stars, the sun and the moon, etc.

footstool

A footstool under God’s feet or a constantly moving BALL?

Some of the verses below are poetic in nature but this does not mean that we can just pretend that they do not hold any type of message to us and are meaningless. They might express the reality in a figurative sense. In the Bible we will find poetry, visions, dreams, parables, analogies, figurative speech, prophesies, psalms, hyperboles, etc, and naturally we must read the text with this in mind. Still, an author would like to express something with this type of text usage and that is often to mirror the reality. It is also important that we do not pick and choose by for example viewing certain verses in the book of Psalms literally when it is suits our own agenda (for example ”in sin did my mother conceive me” by king David in Ps. 51:7), but dismissing other verses in the same book by suggesting ”it’s only poetry so it doesn’t mean anything!” when the message does not fit the same agenda.

For instance, the Bible says that the earth is like a footstool to God, so this is an analogy for us to consider. Do we picture God sitting with a constantly moving and rotating ball under his feet, or do we picture him with his feet on something that really looks like a FOOTSTOOL, like the one in the above picture? A footstool looks like an exact copy of the flat earth model. A footstool is also interesting in the way that it is actually not even needed. A chair (or in God’s case a throne) is higher in importance than a footstool, and it is not even certain that a person in the chair will bother putting up his feet on a footstool. To use a footstool as a picture of the earth is not to show God as an arrogant Majesty who looks down on us with disdain, but to give us some perspective between the Creator and his creation. Compare with his speech to Job, where God’s mighty power is highlighted and his message that Job and his friends were hardly equipped to give the Creator neither advice nor criticism.

Apart from the list below, Christian flat earthers believe that one of the very best argument for a geocentric world picture is the total absence of Bible verses which say something to the effect that the earth is shaped as a ball, constantly moving/rotating, speeding around the sun, is placed in a vast universe with stars and galaxies several trillion miles away, etc.

Many creationists say that it would have been so easy for God to say that a ”day” (Hebrew yom) in the creation account means something else than what we consider a day (but that a day can last millions of years), but God never says this. This is likely due to the fact that a day was, and still is, a normal 24 hour day or else God would have clarified this for us. Similarly, flat earthers believe that if God wanted to reveal a heliocentric model for us, he could easily have explained this to avoid a misunderstanding, but he never does. We are told the exact opposite. Therefore we should have respect for those Christians who believe in the geocentric model, because they are convinced that they get this model straight from the Bible.

BIBLE VERSES (KJV) in chronological order (i. e. Bible order)

1)

Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.—5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.—14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Comment: Based on the Bible’s creation account, we learn that the earth was created before the sun, there was a firmament with water both under it and over it, the sun, moon and the stars were placed IN the firmament (not above) and their purpose was to give light from the perspective of the earth. They were also created to be signs for seasons, days, and years (which for example sun och moon eclipses can offer). Interestingly, when we zoom in on stars through a telescope, they appear as though they are behind a layer of water. The sun and the moon are presented as though they both give light (with no indication that one of them only reflects the other ones light). The greater light was to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night.

2)

Gen.7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen. 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained

Comment: Naturally we are not to assume that real windows were in heaven, but something was opened up in heaven and an enormous amount of rain fell on earth. Normally it does not rain for that long, so where did all the water from above come from? It could be explained by openings in the firmament.

3)

Gen. 11:4 They said, “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” 5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.6 The Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.

Comment: A story which would be impossible on a globe but more feasible on a flat earth model with a firmament as the maximum limit, and especially if there were giants around like Goliath who could participate in the construction. Still, to be able to build a tower up to an altitude near a firmament (they did not reach all the way) would mean that the tower would have reached an altitude where eventually moving and even breathing would be hard. God prevented them from building any further, but it seems like he was of the view that they would have succeeded to reach far enough had they continued: nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them”. About the tower of Babel here (Swedish). 

4) 

earth

The paths cause seasons by moving closer to the center and back again

Joshua 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the Lord cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So THE SUN stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.

Comment: The author could easily have said that the earth stood still if that was the case, but it says that the sun and the moon stood still, and that the sun took action by delaying going down (the sun goes down both in the globe model and the flat earth model). If the earth had to make a halt and stopped its rotating and its path across the sun, people on earth would have died. Joshua seemed to have viewed the sun and the moon as a couple that needed to slow down together in order for the project to work. According to the book of Enoch, the moon moves slightly slower than the sun, and it is interesting that the text in Joshua confirms it by two different verbs ”the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, as though the sun indeed made a complete halt while the moon almost did the same thing by slowing down considerably. The rocks thrown by God seem to confirm that his throne is placed rather close right above the vault since the rocks were thrown with such a precision. Had God’s throne been placed billions of light years away out in the universe, the rocks would fall all over the place and not in a certain valley on earth. God is almighty and can perform any miracle he likes? Absolutely, but looking at it that way, God does not need any rocks in the first place but can kill whoever he wants whenever he wants. (The book of Jasher is referred to 2 times in the Bible so it cannot easily be brushed off.)

5)

Judges 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.

Comment: Stars are viewed as living beings.

6)

1 Sam. 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and HE HATH SET THE WORLD UPON THEM.  

Comment: The oft mentioned pillars are placed as support for the world since the world is placed ON these pillars. Since the earth is elsewhere described as having four corners, it makes sense to place one pillar in each corner. Together with a vault, the outcome looks like a FOOTSTOOL

7)

2 Sam. 22:8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. — 16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Comment: The earth is often described as standing still which is the normality, but king David describes God’s wrath in such a way that the foundations of heaven will move and shake. This sounds like something out of the ordinary, but if the  normality is that the earth always moves and shakes due to the earth’s rotation and high-speed, what would be the difference?

8)

1 Chron. 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. 

Comment: The ideal situation seems to be a stable world that is not moved. In the heliocentric model, the world (and/or the earth) is constantly moving without stop.

9)

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. 8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

Comment: The ordinary scenario for the earth is to stand still (in the flat earth model), but here we can read the description of God’s power that can shake the earth ”out of her place”, and the pillars under it might tremble. If the earth would normally be rotating and travelling faster than a bullet around the sun, it would be illogical to suggest that the pillars under it can tremble and that the earth might be shaken out of its place. We can also read about commanding the sun to not rise, indicating that it is the sun that moves in such a way that it rises (instead of the earth’s movement). Sealing up the stars, might be a description how they are sealed into the firmament.

10)

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven. (”the vault of heaven” – ASV)

Comment: God’s position is just above the vault and since the clouds are right under it, they might also ”cover” him.

11)

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.12 He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud. 

Comment: ”Stretching out the north”, might refer to the whole construction of the pole star in the north and the stretched out firmament surrounding it. ”Hanging the earth upon nothing”? Is this a good description of an earth standing steady on pillars? Well, it is at least a closer description of a flat earth model rather than a globe model with an earth which constantly both rotates and travels at a high-speed around the sun. If you hang something up, like a picture on the wall, you expect it to remain still where it is hanged. You do not expect it to move around on the wall. A flat earth model, shaped as a footstool, could still be described as ”hanging on nothing”. The waters (like the oceans) are apparently compassed with bounds, and this might be a reference to Antarctica which is the outer ring on a flat earth model. The pillars of heaven tremble, which might be a reference to the pillars in each corner of the earth which are also connected to the firmament.

12)

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Comment: Apparently the earth has ends, which works well on the flat earth model, but not on the globe model. God can see under the whole heaven, and that is true whether the earth is flat or a globe. If someone is high enough he can also see the whole earth (everything) under him, which could very well be the point that is being made here – in order to describe God’s majesty.

13)

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth. — 18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Comment: The earth has ”ends”, and in the Bible the sky can also be translated ”expanse” as in YLT, where instead of ”molten looking-glass” we can read ”a hard mirror”. It is translated ”a cast metal mirror” in NKJV. This could be referred to the firmament of the sky, which apparently is strong and more or less solid. You can read more about a solid firmament here.

14)

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Comment: A fastened foundation and a corner-stone work better as descriptions for a flat earth model, and especially if it is possible to stretch out a line over it. It is harder to stretch out a line on a ball. The stars are again described as living beings, just as much as the sons of God (angels) are, since they can sing. The sea (the oceans) are  described as being shut up with doors (bars and doors). Naturally not real doors, but it could be a description of Antarctica. Especially since we can read this statement: Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed”. A comparison is made with the womb, which has its outer bounds as well. It is not a big deal that boats and waves are restricted by large and small land masses (both continents and little islands), but we are reading here about an outer bound which is the maximum outer limit. 

15)

JobJob 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;13 That it might take hold of the ends of the EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?14 It is turned AS A CLAY TO THE SEAL; and they stand as a garment. — 18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, 20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

Comment: Again, we can read about the ends of the earth. We also get the picture of God being able to hold the ends of the earth and shake the wicked out of it. This is easy to imagine if a blanket or a sheet are used, and they have four corners. Like in this verse ”Acts 10: 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth” + Acts 11:5. Turning the earth ”as a clay to seal”, is difficult to imagine on a ball, but works well on a flat surface. In fact, if we do make a seal out of clay, it will turn out like the above which is a good picture of the flat earth model with an outer bound. 

16)

Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

17)

Psalm 19: 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man TO RUN A RACE.  
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his CIRCUIT unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Comment: If the firmament is nothing more than air or space, it is hard to see why precisely this air would be a glorious example of God’s handiwork. If, however, the firmament is something solid, bright and stretched out over the entire earth then it is easier to understand why this object is used as an example of God’s magnificent creation. We can read about the end of the world, and (just like in the book of Enoch) we can see that the sun has a tabernacle and likened to a bridegroom. This sun runs a race by going forth from the end of heaven and his circuit (a circle) unto the ends of it. This means that it is the sun that does the job around the earth, and not the earth travelling around the sun.

18)

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Comment: The inhabitants of the earth are real, so it is likely that the pillars are real as well.

19)

Psalm 78:23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven

Comment: Windows and doors are viewed as something that can be opened up – and maybe also the firmament is solid and able to have openings which God might choose to open up.

sheet20)

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Comment: The oft mentioned phrase ”cannot be moved” does not work well on a heliocentric model where the globe rotates around its axis about 1675 km/h (approx. 1,000 miles/h) with an orbital velocity around the sun of about 28,000 km/hour. A suitable quote: ”For every second you’re moving almost half a kilometer through space and you don’t even feel it”. With other words; the earth in the heliocentric model is constantly moving and is the opposite of immovable.

21)

Psalm 96:10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it SHALL NOT BE MOVED: he shall judge the people righteously.  

Comment: It shall not be moved. This is often repeated, as though it is important information.

22)

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Comment: If ”heaven” is nothing more than air or space, it is not a good example of impressing things that God can create with his hands.

23)

sun beamPsalm 104:1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:3 Who layeth the BEAMS of his chambers in the WATERS: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth. (NASB: 2:— Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain.)

Comment: A curtain that is stretched out around a ball does not even sound like a curtain.  On a flat earth model, however, the analogy works perfectly. We can read about beams of his chambers in the waters. (If you check the picture above, where does the sun seem to be? Right behind that cloud, producing a beam in the water all the way to the watcher, or billions of light years away?). God apparently laid the foundation of the earth with the aim that it should not be removed for ever. V. 5-9 seems to describe the creation and the division between land and water. We can again read about a boundary for the oceans which could be a reference to Antarctica. ”Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth”. It sounds like the waters were once above the whole earth, including the mountains, since we can read that the bound is there to not again make them cover the earth. 

24)

Psalm 136:6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Comment: Water finds its level, and it cannot bend around a ball. In the beginning God stretched out the earth (the land masses) above the waters. The sun rules by the day, and the moon and stars at night. This is confirmation of the description in Gen. 1 that these heavenly objects are created for the sake of the earth, and to perform their duties from the perspective of the earth. In the heliocentric model the earth is far away from the center and the earth plays no role for the objects in the universe.

25)

Psalm 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

Comment: Stars are not dead objects, but they are alive and have names.

26)

Psalm 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

Comment: When this psalm was written (long after the flood), it appears that waters were still above the heavens.

27)

Prov. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compassupon the face of the depth(ESV —When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.)

Comment: If the heaven is nothing more than air or space, it would not be much to ”prepare”. Drawing a circle on a ball sounds weird, but drawing a circle on a flat surface is easier to imagine.

28)

flat earthEccl. 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to HIS PLACE where HE AROSE.

Comment: The sun is the one that performs the job of ”going down” and ”arising”, rather than the earth. The sun (called HE) returns back to the same place as he came from. This description does not fit a globe model.

29)

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Comment: If the earth has four corners and also has ends, it is a good guess that the pillars under it are four in number.

30)

Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. — 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Comment: In the end of days things will change dramatically. Among other things, the moon shall no longer call her (a she) light to shine. The moon has its own light. The heavens will shake and the earth shall be removed out of her place. In a heliocentric model, this happens every day.

31)

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun RETURNED ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Comment: This does not work on a globe model. We can read that it was the sun that returned ten degrees. If the earth would have halted to go backwards, people on earth would have died. A sun halting or going backwards a few degrees would not be harmful in a flat earth model.

32)

tentIsaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Comment: ”Circle” in the above verse is a translation from the Hebrew noun chug (Strong’s 2329) which means circle, vault or horizon.(Note that it is not translated as ball or sphere.) Apart from the above verse, it is found twice more in the Bible. In Job 22:14 we can read about God walking on the circle/vault of heaven (walking on the firmament of heaven), and in Proverbs 8:27 we can read that this circle was inscribed into the face of the deep. NKJV phrases it as ”When He drew a circle on the face of the deep”. It is hard (or rather impossible) to draw a sphere or a globe into something, but it is definitely possible to draw/inscribe a circle into something. While chug is not a translation for ball, there is however a word for ”ball” that Isaiah could have used if this is what he wanted to express, but he did not use it in the above verse. He did, however, use it in Is. 22:18 where ball is a translation from dur (Strong’s 1754). An analogy is used of the heavens stretched out as a curtain and spread out as a TENT to dwell in – for the inhabitants who look like grasshoppers. It is almost impossible to imagine the picture of a tent placed on a globe where all the inhabitants live in. It is a perfect analogy if we imagine a flat earth with a firmament over it, and especially if we also imagine the tabernacle during the Exodus. Read more here.

33)

Isaiah 43:6 I’ll say to the north, ‘Give them up’! and to the south, ‘Don’t keep them back!’ Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth

34)

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Comment: If the heaven is nothing more than air or space, it is nothing impressive about spreading this air out, either alone or with some help.

35)

Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

36)

Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Comment: Again, much ado about the spreading out the heavens with one single hand. If the heaven is only air or space, it is not impressive. If we are including the whole firmament/vault however, it is very impressive and even breathtaking.

37)

Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

Comment: Once again the moon is stated to give light, and once again the sun is stated to cause the movements on earth – here going down.

38)

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and THE EARTH IS MY FOOTSTOOL: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Comment: The earth is God’s footstool. Does it really look like a footstool standing firm on four legs, or does it look like a constantly moving ball?

39)

Ez. 1:22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Comment: The firmament looked like crystal and the strange beings, which the text talks about, were right under this firmament. Ezekiel could still both hear them and see them in his vision. Just above the firmament is where Ezekiel could see the throne and someone who looked like a man upon it.

40)

Ez. 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God.

Comment: Again we can read that the moon has its own light. The stars will be dark, but it does not say that they will therefore cease to be stars. We know from Revelations that stars will eventually fall down unto the earth.

 earth 641)

Dan. 4:10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth —20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.

Comment: A tree in the midst of the earth, high enough to reach heaven and visible to the entire earth? Someone might suggest that this is only a dream and we can even read in v. 22 that the tree was king Belteshazzar, but dreams do not have to be illogical just because they are dreams. It would make more sense for a divine dream to be somewhat logical in order to work as a reasonable comparison with the king. Daniel had several other dreams and visions, and while none of them were therefore ”real” they still made perfect sense.

42)

Dan. 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Comment: Stars are cast down to earth and stamped on. Still, life on earth continues. Even if this is only a dream, it is a confirmation of Jesus own words in the New Testament and the prophesies in Revelations.

43)

Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Comment: Air and/or space will tremble? Or the whole construction with the firmament?

44)

Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Comment: The moon is again claimed to have its own light.

45)

Amos 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.

Comment: Stars can apparently be idols, as though they were people.

46)

Amos 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.

Amos 9:6 (NASB)The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth—

Comment: ”The face of the earth” could signify a certain side up. A troop or a vaulted dome over the earth.

47)

Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.

Comment: The earth has boundaries.

48)

Hab. 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Comment: The sun and the moon stood still. Can we choose to not believe it because it does not fit a certain model?

49)

Matt. 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Comment: Why the need to take Jesus up to a high mountain, if he would not be able to see more than a small region anyway? In the flat earth model, if he would be taken close to the firmament, he would be able to see the entire earth.

50)

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:—31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.  

Comment: Stars will fall on earth, and life will still continue. Every one shall see the son in the clouds, which is easier if the earth was flat. The elect will be collected from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Seems like the heaven starts and ends at certain places.

perspective51

1 Cor.15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Comment: Again it is hinted that the moon has its own light.

52)

Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; WANDERING STARS, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever 

Comment: See more here about wandering stars. Planets are not mentioned in the Bible, but stars are mentioned – including wandering stars like Venus.

53)

Rev. 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.—20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 54)

Rev. 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Comment: The stars of heaven will fall on the earth, but the life on earth continues on also after this moment. The process is compared with figs being shaken off a fig tree, and figs land under the tree on a flat surface.

55)

Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Comment: This is part of a prophesy, and since prophesies are real future events it makes sense to believe there will in fact be four angels on a mission which includes standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds. It is true that it is hard to take hold of a wind but we are not told exactly how these winds are being held. Real angels can accomplish real things which human beings cannot do.

56)

Rev. 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. 

Comment: People survived despite of this star landing on earth, and the water did not burn up because of it but became bitter.

57)

Rev. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Comment: A star fell unto the heaven, and apparently the bottomless pit (which some believe to be in Antarctica) remained intact without burning up.

58)

Rev. 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Comment. A third part of the stars of heaven were cast to earth, but life continued on earth also after this moment.

59)

Rev. 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.9 And they went up on the BREADTH of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Comment: ”The nations at the four corners of the earth” could be a way to express ”all nations”,  but this does not exclude the possibility that it is also literally true that the nations are within four corners of the earth – especially if we also add the information that there will be four angels standing at these corners holding the winds of the earth. The word ”breadth” above describes the surface of the earth, and not parts of the earth. The word is a translation from the noun πλάτος/platos (Strong’s 4114) and can be translated as width or broad plain. The corresponding adjective is πλατύς/platus (Strong’s 4116) which can be used as a description of a street as in Matt. 7:13 (flat and stretched out). The corresponding verb is πλάσσω/plassó (Strong’s 4111), which can be translated as form/mould. The French word ”plateau” signifies a level portion (or nearly level) of the earth’s surface. The French word derives from platel, which is a description of a flat object, like a plateIn Swedish the word for”flat” is ”platt” (similar in other Germanic languages).

***

There are about 35 verses each that mention the end/ends of the earth, as well as the ”face” of the earth. Naturally it is impossible to find any ”ends” on a ball, and it is just as impossible to figure out which side of a ball that is considered ”the face” (a front of something)Needless to say that the existence of ends and a face of the earth work perfectly on a flat earth model.

I can also recommend reading the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher (both referred to in the Bible) and always compare everything with the Bible.

Satan would like to hide God’s creation from us (in order to hide God), and he is pleased with the teaching of Evolution in combination with billions of years in a heliocentric model – which minimize God and our significance in his creation:

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Rom. 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Fake moon landing: A funny thing happened on the way to the moon

If you want to learn more WHY people believe in a flat earth from their own sources:  Mark Sargent’s Flat earth clues. Eric Dubay’s 200 reasons the earth is not a spinning ball. The youtube channel My perspective.

(Note, that I do not necessarily agree with all statements in the links I recommend here or elsewhere on my Blog.)

The FIRMAMENT in Biblical Genesis – something visible and SOLID – the meaning of raqia

footstool

Acts 7:49 ”Heaven is My throne, and the earth a footstool of My feet”

And God said, Let there be A FIRMAMENT in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters (Gen. 1:6)

(Bible verses further down below.)

Heroic efforts have been made to explain away the firmament which we can read about in the Bible, partly because of the clear implications that it is durable enough to hold waters above it, but still small (and near) enough to enclose the celestial bodies which Genesis talks about. This Biblical information bothers many Christians due to their hard task to try to fit in the moon landings, the ball-shaped earth and heliocentrism – which are believed to be modern truths that must be saved to all costs. The Evolution theory is naturally impossible to save if the earth is not made through a Big Bang billions of years ago because lots of time is required in order to make this theory sound plausible.

It is more honest to read the Bible without trying to save certain theories, even if we are convinced they are true, because it is never a sin to read Biblical texts in its proper context. Even secular people must admit that the Bible has over the years proved to be a highly trustworthy book because of the many details about cities, people, leaders, wars, coins, etc, which have parallels also in other old sources as well as in history and archaeology. It is therefore interesting to see what the Bible says about the firmament – which this blog post is about. If we try to be neutral with no preconceived ideas, what does the Bible really say about it?

It is of interest to see how the Greek Septuagint has rendered the Hebrew word raqia with help from the holy Spirit. The answer is the noun στερέωμα (stereóma) from Strong’s 4733, meaning a support, strength (solidity), firmness, steadfastness. It derives from the verb στερεόω (stereoó) from Strong’s 4732, and can mean strengthen, confirm, establish, solidify, make strong, make firm. HELP’s word studies: Cognate: – make stable (solid, immoveable). The adjective is στερεός (stereos) from Strong’s 4731, and the short definition is hard/firm. It can also be translated solid, steadfast or immoveable.

The first occurrence can be found in the first chapter of Genesis (Gen. 1:6) where we can read about God’s creation. This means that raqia/stereóma is something physical that was made. The latin Vulgate has translated the word firmamentum.

The Bible contains many verses where the writer is in total awe about God’s creation of the heavens and the firmament, but if the firmament is nothing physical but at the most air or space, then this type of ”handiwork” is not much do be impressed about. However, if the firmament is a physical vault covering the entire earth and containing the stars, the sun and the moon, then it is definitely something to mention in a psalm.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens [shamayim] declare the glory of God; and the firmament [raqiya] sheweth his handywork.   

Since also theologians can be in error about the Bible, even if it is scarce, the best tools to verify the meaning of a term are:

  1. The Bible itself. To see how the same term is used elsewhere in the Bible.
  2. The Septuagint can be used to check equivalent Hebrew expressions in Greek. 
  3. Other old trustworthy writings from the same period, particularly those referred to in the Bible (the book of Enoch, the book of Jasher).  
  4. Old church fathers – the older the better. What quotes do they use, and how do they understand the term? Which lost books do they speak highly of? (See here that the church fathers indeed believed in a physical firmament.)

Based on the above tools, it is very hard to come to any other conclusion than that the firmament is a physical object above the sky – the outer edge – and the celestial bodies are placed in it.

The Jewish historian Josephus /Ch.1. The constitution of the world and the disposition of the elements/:

1. — After this, on the second day, he placed the heaven over the whole world, and separated it from the other parts, and he determined it should stand by itself. He also placed a crystalline [firmament] round it, and put it together in a manner agreeable to the earth, and fitted it for giving moisture and rain, and for affording the advantage of dews.  

If the firmament is constructed as the Bible explains, naturally no moon landing couldmark twain ever have taken place. With or without the firmament problem, there is absolutely no evidence that man has ever been to the moon, but there is evidence that NASA has lied to us and faked all moon missions (check out also other NASA lies linked to the ISS, the Hubble telescope, etc). The reason why it is now 2018 and people still believe man has been on the moon, is because they are convinced that NASA would not lie to them, because they believe thousands or millions of people must have been involved (which is totally false), and because they have not seen films such as ”A funny thing happened on the way to the moon” (proves cheating), or Jarrah White’s youtube channel Moonfaker, or Marcus Allen’s moon hoax films or any of the fake moon landing photos on aulis, etc. Instead they rely on mainstream media and that they must avoid alternative news to be good and obedient citizens. It really should be enough to see the press conference right after the first moon landing, where the three astronauts should have danced around the room of joy just for having survived the round trip despite all the radiation impact and other risks, but instead they looked like their favorite dog just died. Surprisingly, they could not even remember if they could see any stars on their trip or not. Michael Collins claimed he could not remember seeing any stars at all (contrary to Neil Armstrong’s claim), but later in his book he mentioned all the beautiful stars he could see.

Bible verses showing the Hebrew verb raqa and the Hebrew noun raqia

The English word ”firmament” is based on the Latin word firmamentum, used in the Vulgate and this term in turn is derived from the Latin root firmus – a cognate with ”firm”. It is a Latinization of the Greek stereōma which appears in the Septuagint version of the Bible.

The original Hebrew noun in the Old Testament is raqia (Strong’s 7549) and can be translated as an extended surface or expanse. Bluletterbible also offers ”a visible arch of the sky”. This noun is used 17 times in the KJV.   

The corresponding Hebrew verb raqa (Strong’s 7554) could be translated into: to beat, beat out, stamp, hammer and spread out thinly, like the process of making a dish by hammering thin a lump of metal. This verb is used 11 times in the KJV.

Let us start with the Bible verses with the verb form, so that we can easier understand what the noun might mean thanks to the details. The most interesting verse is Job 37:18 which could be translated as God beating out the skies as strong as metal. 

Can you, with Him, spread out the skies, Strong as a molten mirror? (NASB)

Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror? (ESV)

Below, the verb use in the KJV This verb is for example used when we read about beating gold into thin plates, plates being made broad to cover an altar, goldsmiths spreading out gold over graven images, silver spread into plates, and God stretching out the earth (most importantly, when he spreads out the sky which is strong as molten looking-glass).

Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Ex. 39:3 And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.

Num. 16:39 And Eleazar the priest took the brasen censers, wherewith they that were burnt had offered; and they were made broad plates for a covering of the altar:

2 Sam. 22:41 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies, that I might destroy them that hate me.— 43 Then did I beat them as small as the dust of the earth, I did stamp them as the mire of the street, and did spread them abroad.

Ps. 136:6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Is. 40:19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.

Is. 42:5 5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein

Is. 44:24 24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Jer. 10:9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

Ez. 6:11 Thus saith the Lord God; Smite with thine hand, and stamp with thy foot, and say, Alas for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! for they shall fall by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence.

Ez. 25:6 For thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast clapped thine hands, and stamped with the feet, and rejoiced in heart with all thy despite against the land of Israel

flat earthBelow, the noun use in the KJV – this noun is for example used to show something visible, solid, with a certain color (crystal) and brightness, and strong enough to hold water above it. There is water both below this firmament (on the earth) as well as above. We know from films of stars that they indeed look like they are placed behind a layer of water. The firmament is also called ”heaven” but is specifically explained as ”the firmament of the heaven”. The celestial bodies (the lights) are placed in this firmament and not above it. The lights are there specifically to give light upon the earth, and to be used as signs for the inhabitants of the earth. The birds were created to fly in the open firmament of heaven”. Based on psalms, this firmament is still in existence to show the glory of God. The firmament is stretched forth over our heads and Ezekiel describes the firmament to be rather near, because the odd-looking creatures with wings will be close by this firmament with their voices heard from it. The context of Ezekiel requires a literal vault or dome.

Gen. 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.— 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

 Ps. 150:1 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

Ez. 1:15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.— 22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. 23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

Ez. 10:1 Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne.

Dan. 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Other versesearth

Other equivalent verses about the firmament which looks like a tabernacle or tent. A rotating globe circling around the sun naturally does not need a ”foundation”, nor any pillars to stand on. Spreading out the firmament/vault/tabernacle as a tent over the earth, for the inhabitants to dwell in, would be hard to imagine on a ball.

Is. 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Job 9:1 Then Job answered and said —6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south. 

Job  36:29 Also can any understand the spreadings of the clouds, or the noise of his tabernacle?30 Behold, he spreadeth his light upon it, and covereth the bottom of the sea.

Job 38:44 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?— 13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.

1 Sam. 2:7 The Lord maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the PILLARS of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them.

Psalm 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

Psalm 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.” 

The Apocalypse of Baruch is not a canonized book, but it could still very well be that this book confirms the Bible in part or in total. It seems like the Bible, lost books/pseudogrypha, old church fathers, the Septauagint, etc, all say the same thing: The firmament is solid. 

Greek Apocalypse of Baruch, 3:5–8:

”Those who gave counsel to build the tower, for they whom thou seest drove forth multitudes of both men and women, to make bricks; among whom, a woman making bricks was not allowed to be released in the hour of child-birth, but brought forth while she was making bricks, and carried her child in her apron, and continued to make bricks. And the Lord appeared to them and confused their speech, when they had built the tower to the height of four hundred and sixty-three cubits. And they took a gimlet, and sought to pierce the heavens, saying, Let us see (whether) the heaven is made of clay, or of brass, or of iron. When God saw this He did not permit them, but smote them with blindness and confusion of speech, and rendered them as thou seest.

Stars will fall to the earth, and people continue to live

Stars can fall from the skies according to Daniel 8:10 and Matthew 24:29, as well as Revelations.

Rev. 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 1And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb

Rev: 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Rev. 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Ps. 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

If one star let alone all the stars in the sky fell on the earth, no one would be able to either hide or speak since the earth would burn up long before this happened.

The book of Enoch – a flat earth bookflat earth 5

Numerous manuscripts of 1 Enoch have  been found in Ethiopian monasteries, and they have also been found among the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran. The book of Enoch and the book of Jasher are both quoted in the Bible. This means that we should not view the text lightly, but rather with the assumption that they likely contain valid descriptions of our past.

The punishment of the fallen angels described in 2 Peter seems to resemble the book of Enoch, as does much of the wording in Revelation. The Epistle of Jude does not only reveal that Genesis should be taken literally (Enoch is in the 7th generation from Adam), but also supports the book of Enoch when it comes to the punishment of the angels – even if the book of Enoch contains many more details. By attributing prophecy to Enoch, Jude gives much support to the validity of his book.

Jude 14 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.—And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

The book of Enoch contains too many descriptions of the sun, moon, stars and angels, etc, to cover here, but here are some quotes:

1 Enoch 1:1. The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. 2. And he took up his parable and said–Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

1 Enoch 18:1. I saw the treasuries of all the winds: I saw how He had furnished with them the whole creation and the firm foundations of the earth. 2. And I saw the corner-stone of the earth: I saw the four winds which bear [ the earth and ] the firmament of the heaven. 3. And I saw how the winds stretch out the vaults of heaven, and have their station between heaven and earth: these are the pillars of the heaven . 4. I saw the winds of heaven which turn and bring the circumference of the sun and all the stars to their setting. 5. I saw the winds on the earth carrying the clouds: I saw the paths of the angels. I saw at the end of the earth the firmament of the heaven above. —9. And I saw a flaming fire. And beyond these mountains 10. is a region the end of the great earth:there the heavens were completed.  — 15. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. 

1 Enoch 21:1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. 3. And there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. 4. Then I said: ‘For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?’ 5. Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: ‘Enoch, why dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? 6. These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.’ 7. And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. 8. Then I said: ‘How fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!’ 9. Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: ‘Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?’ And I answered: ‘Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.’ 10. And he said unto me: ‘This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.’

1 Enoch 33:2. And to the east of those beasts I saw the ends of the earth whereon the heaven rests, and the portals of the heaven open. 3. And I saw how the stars of heaven come forth, and I counted the portals out of which they proceed, and wrote down all their outlets, of each individual star by itself, according to their number and their names, their courses and their positions, and their times and their months, as Uriel the holy angel who was with me showed me. 

1 Enoch 72:2-5. This is the first commandment of the luminaries: The sun is a luminary whose egress is an opening of heaven, which is (located) in the direction of the east, and whose ingress is (another) opening of heaven, (located) in the west. I saw six openings through which the sun rises and six openings through which it sets. The moon also rises and sets through the same openings, and they are guided by the stars; together with those whom they lead, they are six in the east and six in the west heaven. All of them (are arranged) one after another in a constant order. There are many windows (both) to the right and the left of these openings. First there goes out the great light whose name is the sun; its roundness is like the roundness of the sky; and it is totally filled with light and heat. The chariot in which it ascends is (driven by) the blowing wind. The sun sets in the sky (in the west) and returns by the northeast in order to go to the east; it is guided so that it shall reach the eastern gate and shine in the face of the sky,

According to this description, stars that rise and set do so through openings in the dome, just like the sun and moon. Enoch describes the sun and the moon as being of the same size. Most stars belong in certain star constellations, but there are also wandering stars who do not follow the order. They are the ones which have transgressed the commandments of God because they do not arrive punctually (1 Enoch 18:14-15). Like the Bible, 1 Enoch typically depicts stars, and the ”sons of God” as living, anthropomorphic beings. This is consistent with Job 38:7, which says that when the earth’s cornerstone was laid “the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted aloud.”

Also King David describes the sun as a male, and just like Enoch and David too speaks about chambers, running a race, etc:

Ps. 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Job  9:1 Then Job answered and said,2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?— 6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

FE 4No need to fear the flat earth movement and their arguments

The last thing that Satan would do is to push people straight into the arms of God, but this is exactly what the flat earth movement is doing. For this reason there is no reason to be upset with people who have come to the conclusion that the earth if flat based on the Biblical information (others have of course come to this conclusion regardless of the Bible), and who do what they can to refute Big Bang, Evolution, heliocentrism, a global earth, etc. If they are wrong, it is better to explain why and present better arguments. Satan does not even want people to believe in God in the first place, so flat-earthers are certainly not his best friends. Not all flat earthers are Christians, but they still inadvertently highlight the existence of a Creator and that the earth, with its inhabitants, is the absolute center of his creation and with everything revolving around it. This is far from the naturalistic and materialistic world – with no room for a Creator – which we are brought up to believe in.

The Bible explains that our Creator can be detected through his creation, by the things that are made. Naturally then Satan would like to do all he can to hide this divine creation from the people of the earth, and he also offers other an alternative which does not require a Creator to start with.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the THINGS that are MADE, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Satan’s presentation of our existence includes Big Bang and Evolution in order to deceive people to turn their backs on a Creator, but heliocentrism is also a piece of this puzzle (and the idea that the earth is a planet among other planets) since it reduces the earth into a tiny little speck circling the sun in a vast universe which likely contains more ”earths” with living creatures since the earth is far from unique. This in turn reduces human being into brief parentheses in time, with no purpose, without a God who loves them, with no value whatsoever and particularly with no future. In Satan’s world, the earth is far from placed in the center, but is rather mere dust which came about by chance.

The Biblical creation account is the exact opposite. In the Bible we can read that the earth is the center of God’s world, is his footstool, hangs on nothing, is immovable, is placed on four pillars, human beings on it are the crown of his creation, has a firmament/dome/vault/arch over it which is stretched out like a tent to dwell in, stars are small enough to fall on earth, etc. Flat-earthers would even say that the Bible straight out says that the earth is flat.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 

The word ”breadth” above is a description of the shape of the earth, and not certain parts of the earth. The word is a translation from the noun πλάτος/platos, Strong’s 4114, which means broad, something stretched out, flat, wide and is sometimes interpreted as ”broad plain” = NASB. The adjective is πλατύς, Strong’s 4116, which can be used as a description of a street. The origin comes from the verb πλάσσω/plassó, Strong’s 4111, which can be defined as ”forming/spreading/flattening out”. NE provides the information that it is connected to the French word plateau, of platel, which is a flat object.  

The above is no proof for that the earth is flat, but rather that the Biblical authors believed it was. If you want to learn why people believe in the flat earth, I recommend Mark Sargent’s Flat earth clues or the youtube channel ”Celebrate truth” (the latter from a Christian perspective).

You can read about ”the circle of the earth” from Is. 40:22 in this blog article.

Biblical examples of POLYGAMY – a marriage form not supported by God

ringarThe Bible – contains advice concerning the marriage between a man and a woman 

Biblical examples of polygamy further down below 

When it comes to the question of marriage and the relationship between a man and his wife, the Bible contains plenty of good advice from the apostle Paul and from Proverbs, but never about other marriage constellations (same-sex marriages or polygamy). This naturally suggests that other variations are not according to God’s plans.

Unfortunately God’s view of an ideal marriage is attacked by some people (there is even a name for them – liberals), and there are also people who try to find support for polygamy from the Bible. Nevertheless, the Bible explains on the first few pages that a marriage is a union between one man and one woman – for generations. No other variations are listed. The marriage union is intended to be:

  1. between a man and a woman
  2. between two individuals (who become one flesh with each other)
  3. unbreakable

Such a natural union is also ideal for the children who would then be born into a stable household, and each new generation would grow up with a mother and a father as role models. Men and women have different abilities and characteristics depending on their gender, and children benefit from both.

Gen. 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Prior to the time of Moses, marriages between cousins and siblings were legitimate (even if they might be rare), but then again Adam and Eve were created ”very good”, and had no deficient genes which might cause any defects in their children. Such risks did not arrive until much later due to gene pool bottlenecks.

If God would have accepted same-sex marriages, we would be able to find support for this somewhere in his word. Not only are there no such examples but we can find many warnings against this type of unnatural life style. If we choose to live against God’s intended purpose and creation order, we are also choosing to live a risky life style which could even lead to depression and an early death. In his great love, God wants something much better for us. If all people would adhere to God’s advice about this, there would be no room for any venereal diseases.

Rom. 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (NKJV)

Lev. 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

If something is an abomination in the old testament, it could not possibly be acceptable and right in the new testament.

LIST OF COMMONLY USED EXAMPLES OF POLYGAMY giftermål

Even if the ideal marriage union is between two persons, there are Biblical examples of men (never women) who have deviated from this rule and who have lived in a polygamous marriage with more than one woman. It is noteworthy that none of those marriages have been peaceful or successful.

God is not a fan of either polygamy or divorce but due to man’s own will and the hardness of the heart, God provides rules for the sake of the weaker part – the woman. During the time of the old testament there was no safety net for women apart from belonging to a household which could provide for her (and her children). A single woman who is neither a virgin or a widow would have great difficulties achieving a good standard of living with no protective laws giving her certain rights. As soon as people deviate from God’s intention, problems arise for one or more parties. In such cases one could only do the best of the situation. 

The first person we can read about living in a polygamous marriage is Lemech (Gen. 4:19) who was not a godly man. The book of Jasher provides more information about him and his wives, and discloses that he initially used only one wife for child-bearing.

Sometimes the reason for a polygamous marriage is not disclosed, but whenever it is disclosed among the godly men of the Bible, we can see that the reasons seem to be due to having been persuaded by a barren wife to have children with a handmaid, or possibly due to having been tricked into marrying more than one wife. These are not the reasons you would hear from Christian polygamy supporters today. They provide totally different reasons – none of them Biblical.

They might suggest that God accept polygamous marriages since there are plenty of Biblical examples of them, but they are almost always in relation to ungodly men. Yes, there are a few cases when it comes to godly men, but if you see the details in the list below it is evident that these cases still cannot be used as support. I do not list individuals who had multiple wives and who were never considered righteous in the first place, such as Jeroboam, Ahab, Jehoiakim, Jehoiachin, Esau, etc.

Concubines in the Bible among godly men: The practice of taking concubines as ”wives” was used to provide a male heir for a barren wife (Gen. 16, 35, 36), but concubines did not have the same status as wives. The sons of some concubines were treated as co-heirs with the sons of wives. Multiplying children through concubines would also increase the available family workforce and the family wealth and power. The practice of having concubines was NOT to meet the sexual desires of the males. The practice could even provide a social safety net for poor families who could sell their daughters in dire times ( Exod 21:7-10; Judges 19:1).

The list consists of the most commonly used Biblical examples when it comes to the attempt to support polygamy today.

1) Abraham 

Abraham allowed himself to be persuaded by his wife Sarah to go to bed with her maid Hagar in order to obtain a child with her. The reason for this was that Sarah herself was barren and likely eager to be pregnant with a son as per God’s promise. Perhaps Abraham was easily persuaded because he too was eager to see the divine promise fulfilled. Hagar did indeed become pregnant and gave birth to Ishmael. Even though a son was now born to Abraham and Sarah, it was still not the son of the promise. God had promised that Sarah would be giving birth to a son – and never suggested that she would make her own arrangements through another woman to see this promise fulfilled. Their second son Isaac was born by Sarah and he was the son of the promise. There have been many contentions between the  descendants of Isaac and Ishmael (even today).

Abraham also had a wife/concubine after Sarah’s death – Keturah, and Keturah and Hagar are likely the two concubines referred to in Gen. 25:6 (unless one would like to make a case about Abraham’s vague mentioning of Eliezer of Damascus which requires a blog post in itself and still would not prove yet another concubine).

Gen. 16:1 Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. — 4. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.

Gen. 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

Gen. 15:2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

1 Chron. 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

Jasher 16:29 And when Hagar saw that she had conceived she rejoiced greatly, and her mistress was despised in her eyes, and she said within herself, This can only be that I am better before God than Sarai my mistress, for all the days that my mistress has been with my lord, she did not conceive, but me the Lord has caused in so short a time to conceive by him.30 And when Sarai saw that Hagar had conceived by Abram, Sarai was jealous of her handmaid, and Sarai said within herself, This is surely nothing else but that she must be better than I am.31 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee, for at the time when thou didst pray before the Lord for children why didst thou not pray on my account, that the Lord should give me seed from thee?32 And when I speak to Hagar in thy presence, she despiseth my words, because she has conceived, and thou wilt say nothing to her; may the Lord judge between me and thee for what thou hast done to me.33 And Abram said to Sarai, Behold thy handmaid is in thy hand, do unto her as it may seem good in thy eyes; and Sarai afflicted her, and Hagar fled from her to the wilderness.

2) Jacob

Jacob was tricked by his uncle Laban to marry an extra wife – Laban’s oldest daughter Leah. Jacob himself had preferred to be married to his love Rachel alone, who was Laban’s younger daughter and was promised to Jacob. Even though Jacob was innocent, he could not make what happened undone, and with a promise to also get married to Rachel he accepted his fate of being the husband of two wives. This polygamous marriage of course produced problems when the sisters were jealous of each other, and due to being barren each of them managed to persuade Jacob two have children with their maids. Bilhah and Zilpah became Jacob’s wives as well and their offspring became his heirs.

Laban was actually a polygamist as well, but since this information is not from the Bible (but from the book of Jasher) I do not include him on my list. It might very well be true, but then again it cannot be used as support for a Christian polygamy since he was hardly a righteous man at all times. Since Jacob was tricked into marrying an extra wife, and since it was his wives who suggested additional wives due to the reason of being barren, this case cannot be used by polygamy supporters today.

Gen. 29:21 And Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for my days are fulfilled, that I may go in unto her. 22 And Laban gathered together all the men of the place, and made a feast.23 And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her.24 And Laban gave unto his daughter Leah Zilpah his maid for an handmaid.25 And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it was Leah: and he said to Laban, What is this thou hast done unto me? did not I serve with thee for Rachel? wherefore then hast thou beguiled me?26 And Laban said, It must not be so done in our country, to give the younger before the firstborn.27 Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.28 And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.29 And Laban gave to Rachel his daughter Bilhah his handmaid to be her maid.30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.31 And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.32 And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the Lord hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.33 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Because the Lord hath heard I was hated, he hath therefore given me this son also: and she called his name Simeon.

Gen. 30:1 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.2 And Jacob’s anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God’s stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?3 And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.4 And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.5 And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.6 And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.

Jasher 30:13 And Laban had no sons but only daughters, and his other wives and handmaids were still barren in those days; and these are the names of Laban’s daughters which his wife Adinah had borne unto him; the name of the elder was Leah and the name of the younger was Rachel; and Leah was tender-eyed, but Rachel was beautiful and well favored, and Jacob loved her. — 18 And in the fourth year of Jacob’s residence in the house of Laban, the Lord visited Laban and remembered him on account of Jacob, and sons were born unto him, and his first born was Beor, his second was Alib, and the third was Chorash. 19 And the Lord gave Laban riches and honor, sons and daughters, and the man increased greatly on account of Jacob.

Jasher 31:1 And in the seventh year, Jacob’s service which he served Laban was completed, and Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for the days of my service are fulfilled; and Laban did so, and Laban and Jacob assembled all the people of that place and they made a feast.2 And in the evening Laban came to the house, and afterward Jacob came there with the people of the feast, and Laban extinguished all the lights that were there in the house.3 And Jacob said unto Laban, Wherefore dost thou do this thing unto us? and Laban answered, Such is our custom to act in this land.4 And afterward Laban took his daughter Leah, and he brought her to Jacob, and he came to her and Jacob did not know that she was Leah.5 And Laban gave his daughter Leah his maid Zilpah for a handmaid.6 And all the people at the feast knew what Laban had done to Jacob, but they did not tell the thing to Jacob. 7 And all the neighbors came that night to Jacob’s house, and they ate and drank and rejoiced, and played before Leah upon timbrels, and with dances, and they responded before Jacob, Heleah, Heleah.— 10 And in the morning, when daylight appeared, Jacob turned to his wife and he saw, and behold it was Leah that had been lying in his bosom, and Jacob said, Behold now I know what the neighbors said last night, Heleah, they said, and I knew it not. — 12 And Laban answered Jacob, saying, Not so is it done in our place to give the younger before the elder now therefore if thou desirest to take her sister likewise, take her unto thee for the service which thou wilt serve me for another seven years.13 And Jacob did so, and he also took Rachel for a wife, and he served Laban seven years more, and Jacob also came to Rachel, and he loved Rachel more than Leah, and Laban gave her his maid Bilhah for a handmaid. — 17 And when Leah saw that she had left bearing, she also took her handmaid Zilpah, and she gave her to Jacob for a wife, and Jacob also came to Zilpah, and she also bare Jacob two sons, Gad and Asher.

3) King Saul

bible 4Saul only had one wife, but one concubine is also mentioned. According to the story about Saul, God regret making him a king rather early on. Since Saul ended up being a rebellious and unrighteous leader, his case cannot be used as support for polygamous marriages today.

1 Sam. 15:10 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying,11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night.

1 Sam. 16:14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

1 Sam. 18:12 And Saul was afraid of David, because the Lord was with him, and was departed from Saul.

1 Sam. 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

2 Sam. 3:7 And Saul had a concubine, whose name was Rizpah, the daughter of Aiah: and Ishbosheth said to Abner, Wherefore hast thou gone in unto my father’s concubine?

2 Sam. 21:11 And it was told David what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. — 

It is possible that Saul had additional concubines who are not mentioned. Nathan quotes the Lord as saying, “And I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more” (2 Sam. 12:8). Based on this information it seems like David inherited Saul’s wives, and we do not know the reason for this. See more below. David could have done it out of mercy, but also due to his impression that God would make David the king of Israel (and Jerusalem the capital city), which means David needed to be more powerful than his enemies. See more below.

4) King David

Eight of David’s wives are mentioned in the Bible. David started out marrying Saul’s daughter Michal, but later Saul gave her to someone else (1 Sam. 25:42-44). David eventually got her back (2 Sam. 3:13-14), but in the meantime he married two other women (1 Chron. 3:1-3), as well as additional four.

Later in his life he took still more wives and concubines (out of Jerusalem) and it seems like the motivation for those marriages was connected to God making him king of Israel and Jerusalem the capital city. David’s own words just prior to the information about those latest wives David perceived that the Lord had established him king over Israel, and that he had exalted his kingdom for his people Israel’s sake”. David was likely under the impression that he could accomplish God’s goal much easier if he could produce more heirs and also bond with many different families to eliminate enemies. Are these extra wives former concubines of Saul?

Nathan quotes the Lord as saying, “And I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more” (2 Sam. 12:8). Based on this information it seems like David inherited Saul’s wives, and we do not know the reason for this. David could have done it out of mercy, but also due to the reason mentioned above – David thinking bonding with different families would make him powerful enough to withstand his enemies when uniting Israel. This reason is hard to use today as support for polygamy among Christians.

This does not mean that it was God’s idea that David should take many wives, but it certainly seems like God tolerated it. If the extra wives were Saul’s, the damage had already been done.

1 Sam. 18:27 Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king’s son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.28 And Saul saw and knew that the Lord was with David, and that Michal Saul’s daughter loved him.

1 Sam. 25:39 And when David heard that Nabal was dead, he said, Blessed be the Lord, that hath pleaded the cause of my reproach from the hand of Nabal, and hath kept his servant from evil: for the Lord hath returned the wickedness of Nabal upon his own head. And David sent and communed with Abigail, to take her to him to wife. —  43 David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel; and they were also both of them his wives.44 But Saul had given Michal his daughter, David’s wife, to Phalti the son of Laish, which was of Gallim.

2 Samuel 3:1 Now there was long war between the house of Saul and the house of David: but David waxed stronger and stronger, and the house of Saul waxed weaker and weaker.2 And unto David were sons born in Hebron: and his firstborn was Amnon, of Ahinoam the Jezreelitess;3 And his second, Chileab, of Abigail the wife of Nabal the Carmelite; and the third, Absalom the son of Maacah the daughter of Talmai king of Geshur;4 And the fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith; and the fifth, Shephatiah the son of Abital;5 And the sixth, Ithream, by Eglah David’s wife. These were born to David in Hebron.

2 Samuel 5:12 And David perceived that the Lord had established him king over Israel, and that he had exalted his kingdom for his people Israel’s sake.13 And David took him more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.14 And these be the names of those that were born unto him in Jerusalem; Shammuah, and Shobab, and Nathan, and Solomon,15 Ibhar also, and Elishua, and Nepheg, and Japhia,16 And Elishama, and Eliada, and Eliphalet.17 But when the Philistines heard that they had anointed David king over Israel, all the Philistines came up to seek David; and David heard of it, and went down to the hold.

1 Chron. 14:2 And David perceived that the Lord had confirmed him king over Israel, for his kingdom was lifted up on high, because of his people Israel.3 And David took more wives at Jerusalem: and David begat more sons and daughters.

5) Solomo

Salomo had no less than 700 wives and 300 concubines, and it was due to the love of many strange women. Despite God’s commandments to not have relations with strange women, he did so anyway.

1 King 7:8 And his house where he dwelt had another court within the porch, which was of the like work. Solomon made also an house for Pharaoh’s daughter, whom he had taken to wife, like unto this porch.

1 King 9:16 For Pharaoh king of Egypt had gone up, and taken Gezer, and burnt it with fire, and slain the Canaanites that dwelt in the city, and given it for a present unto his daughter, Solomon’s wife.

2 Chron. 8:11 And Solomon brought up the daughter of Pharaoh out of the city of David unto the house that he had built for her: for he said, My wife shall not dwell in the house of David king of Israel, because the places are holy, whereunto the ark of the Lord hath come.

1 King. 11:1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.

6) Gideongideon

Gideon was considered to be a wise and God-fearing man who considered God’s ways being the most important. He was not entirely faithful though, since we can read about a great sin when he made an ephod out of gold which all of Israel used as an idol. Since Gideon clearly was not obedient to the end, neither his case could not be used as support for polygamy among Christians.

Judg. 6:12 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him, and said unto him, The Lord is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

Judg. 8 27 And Gideon made an ephod thereof, and put it in his city, even in Ophrah: and all Israel went thither a whoring after it: which thing became a snare unto Gideon, and to his house — 30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.31 And his concubine that was in Shechem, she also bare him a son, whose name he called Abimelech.

7) Elkanah  

Elkanah is described as a God-fearing man but his choice to have two wives caused trouble in his household – just like all polygamous marriages do. A common problem occurs if one wife gives birth to children and not the other, when various negative feelings will follow. According to this story, it was even God who made Hannah barren, and could this be for a reason? Perhaps it was a way for her to put all her focus on God and to seek his divine plans for her and her son? Did God feel that she deserved to be sad for a while since she had accepted to become a wife to a man who was already married? I am only speculating. Elkanah’s case is not enough to suggest that God is for Christian polygamous marriages.

1 Sam. 1:1 Now there was a certain man of Ramathaimzophim, of mount Ephraim, and his name was Elkanah, the son of Jeroham, the son of Elihu, the son of Tohu, the son of Zuph, an Ephrathite:2 And he had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah: and Peninnah had children, but Hannah had no children.3 And this man went up out of his city yearly to worship and to sacrifice unto the Lord of hosts in Shiloh. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, the priests of the Lord, were there. — 5 But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the Lord had shut up her womb.6 And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the Lord had shut up her womb.7 And as he did so year by year, when she went up to the house of the Lord, so she provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat.

8) Abijah

Abijah had great faith in God and his power, but why were not pagan altars and idols broken down during his own rule? Why did the people have to wait for his son Asa to do this job after his father’s death? Perhaps such altars were even erected in the end of Abijah’s life, like around the time when he started to marry multiple wives. When God is communicating with Jehoram in 2 Chron. 21:12 he (God) mentions Asa and Jehoshaphat as individuals who walked his ways, but he does not mentioned Abijah. 

2 Chron. 13:5 Ought ye not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt? — 21 But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives, and begat twenty and two sons, and sixteen daughters.

2 Chron. 14:1 So Abijah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead. In his days the land was quiet ten years.2 And Asa did that which was good and right in the eyes of the Lord his God:For he took away the altars of the strange gods, and the high places, and brake down the images, and cut down the groves:

9) Rehoboam

Rehoboam’s reason for polygamy was that he desired many wives. He is yet another who forsook the Lord and can therefore not be counted as a righteous believer in a polygamous marriage.

2 Chron. 11:17 So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong, three years: for three years they walked in the way of David and Solomon.

2 Chron. 12:1 And it came to pass, when Rehoboam had established the kingdom, and had strengthened himself, he forsook the law of the Lord, and all Israel with him.

10) Jehoram

Also Jehoram fell away from God, so neither his case could be used as support for Christian polygamy today.

2 Chron. 21:9 Then Jehoram went forth with his princes, and all his chariots with him: and he rose up by night, and smote the Edomites which compassed him in, and the captains of the chariots.10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.11 Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and compelled Judah thereto.12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,13 But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father’s house, which were better than thyself:14 Behold, with a great plague will the Lord smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods:15 And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.16 Moreover the Lord stirred up against Jehoram the spirit of the Philistines, and of the Arabians, that were near the Ethiopians.

11) Joash

It may not have been Joash’s own idea to be a bigamist since we can read that it was his Father Jehoiada who arranged it. We do not know when Joash were provided his wives (and when the marriage was consummated) but Joash officially started to reign when he was 7 years old. He was a righteous man to begin with, but we can also read that he was disobedient to God and fell away serving other gods.

2 Chron. 24:2 And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the Lord all the days of Jehoiada the priest. And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters. — 17 Now after the death of Jehoiada came the princes of Judah, and made obeisance to the king. Then the king hearkened unto them.18 And they left the house of the Lord God of their fathers, and served groves and idols: and wrath came upon Judah and Jerusalem for this their trespass.19 Yet he sent prophets to them, to bring them again unto the Lord; and they testified against them: but they would not give ear

12) Moses?

The Bible does not explicitly state that Moses had another wife apart from Zipporah. She was the daughter of Reuel, the priest of Midian, but this Midian priest and Moses father-in-law apparently changed his name to Jethro later on (Ex. 2)Num. 12:1 mentions a Cushite woman and even if this woman is likely not the same as Zipporah, it is possible that she is Moses second wife after the death of his first wife. Ex. 4:20 mentions only one wife of Moses.

Moses was generally a righteous man, but he did not always obey God. He killed an Egyptian guard (who was assaulting a Hebrew slave) and Ex. 4:24-26 provides another example where Moses contrary to God’s wish did not want to circumcise his son.

Above is the whole list of candidates! Not much to hinge Christian polygamous marriages on.

brudparBible verses which support the marriage between 1 man and 1 woman

Below are some Bible verses which show God’s intended purpose with a marriage union. You will never see any examples of same-sex marriages, and you will never see support for a polygamous marriage:

Prov. 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?21 For the ways of man are before the eyes of the Lord, and he pondereth all his goings.

Prov. 12:4 A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.

Prov. 30:17 The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.18 There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not:19 The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

Prov. 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.

Ps. 128:Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.4 Behold, that thus shall the man be blessed that feareth the Lord.

Below you can see what the law of Moses says about the marriage, as well as the words from Jesus Christ:

Deut. 25:If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband’s brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband’s brother unto her.6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.7 And if the man like not to take his brother’s wife, then let his brother’s wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband’s brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband’s brother.8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her;9 Then shall his brother’s wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother’s house.

Deut. 17:14 When thou art come unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;—-17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

Deut. 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

Matt. 22:24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.27 And last of all the woman died also.28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

Matt. 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matt. 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

Mark. 10:2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Paul provides living instructions for man and woman in a marriage unionchurch9

If Paul would be open for other alternatives than the natural marriage between a man and a woman, he had many chances to say so but he does the contrary – warns against them. Paul says that the man is the head of the woman and that the wife does not have power of her own body but the husband and vice versa, but what if there are even more women in the marriage or what if there is no man at all? Who has the power over which body, and who is the head of the family? Paul does not say, which naturally indicates that there are no such alternatives.   

1 Cor. 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. — 10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?—27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.— 29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;—33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.—39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

Eph. 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;—28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.— 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

Col. 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

God does not produce rules because he hates us, but because he loves us and wants children to grow up in stable homes with a mother and a father.

Bible verses about eternal LIFE or DEATH for the souls

death2What the Bible says about spiritual DEATH

Our choice when it comes to our permanent future seems to be a) eternal life, or b) eternal death. If the first realm is eternal (staying alive for ever in the kingdom of God) it makes sense to assume that also the latter realm is equally eternal (staying dead and non-existent for ever). Note that I do not believe that the process of dying will last for ever but rather the duration of being dead – as in a permanent irrevocable death and complete non-existence. If the whole process of dying would last for ever, then this too could be labelled ”eternal life”, albeit in agony and torture. The Bible, however, explains that our choice is either life or death. Not life or life.

There is no doubt, however, that unbelievers risk being burned in the fire that we call hell (see verses below) unless they repent. Nevertheless, the exact duration (and degrees) of this suffering is unknown and up for debate. We do know that books will be opened and proper judgments will be made, and also that the place called Hades will finally be thrown in the lake of fire (often called Gehenna). The lake of fire is the second death. Hades appears to have two sections (and good and one bad) and this is where Lazarus ended up, as per Luke 16:20-25.

The Greek adjective αἰώνιος (aiónios, Strong’s 166) derives from the noun aiṓn (Strong’s 165), and even though it is often translated ”eternal” it does not always refer to something that will last non-stop. Even God’s covenant with Israel was ”eternal”, and yet it no longer applies.

Bible verses where everlasting life is contrasted with death and corruption

The Bible contrasts ”everlasting life” with corruption and death. If you live in shameful sin you will end up with death, and if you are the servant of God you will end up with the opposite, which is everlasting life.

Gal. 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap CORRUPTION; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING.9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of SIN UNTO DEATH, OR OF OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS? — 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is DEATH.22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and THE END EVERLASTING LIFE.23 For THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH; but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.— 6 For TO BE CARNALLY MINDED IS DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace. — 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. — 13 For IF YE LIVE AFTER THE FLESH, YE SHALL DIE: BUT IF YE THROUGH THE SPIRIT DO MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY, YE SHALL LIVE.  

John 6:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. —  24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. — 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE; and they that have done evil, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION. 

Matt. 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,  — 7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt. 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:—41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:—46 And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath EVERLASTING LIFE: and he that believeth not the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Matt. 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into LIFE halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto EVERLASTING LIFE, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

John 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. — 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. — 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. — 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are DEAD.50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, HE SHALL LIVE FOR EVER: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. — 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. — 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. — 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.  

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves UNWORTHY OF EVERLASTING LIFE, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Matt. 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. –—  26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Matt. 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. — 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matt. 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Matt. 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).

Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Rev. 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev. 21:He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Clues from the old testamentdove 2

Gen. 2:1 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Below are two long sections from Ezekiel which are key to understanding the issue of life and death, particularly from the perspective of the old testament before Jesus’s entrance on earth. All souls are God’s souls and everyone must give an account before God in the future, but the soul that sins – and that does not repent before it is too late – shall apparently die. This is naturally not about a physical death since ALL human beings will eventually die one day (sinners or not), but the below verses have a focus on a spiritual death.

Ez. 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,— Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord God.10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,—13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father’s sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,—17 That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Ez. 33:5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby

Contempt” below is a translation from the Hebrews noun deraon, which can also be translated aversion or abhorrence (Strong’s 1860). It is also used in Is. 66:24.

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Is. 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Eccl. 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

heavenThe kingdom of God is only for those who repent

You will only enter the kingdom of God if you repent and become born again.

Matt. 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matt. 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Luke 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake,30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Matt. 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rom. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom. 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. — 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. — 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. —  48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

1 Tim. 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

10 Bible verses /examples commonly used to support the sinful nature – refutation

bebis2Man’s idea to add original sin to the Bible

The idea of original sin, or the sinful nature from birth, was first pushed by Augustine who was a former gnostic. Augustine is guilty of having introduced many unbiblical ideas into church, and  some of them were later also taught by both Luther and Calvin. The old church fathers before Augustine did not teach the sinful nature (see here), and most importantly the Bible does not. Below are some of the most common verses used as an attempt to prove the sinful nature.

Example 1) Romans 5:12

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man SIN entered into the world, and death by sin; and so DEATH passed upon all men, FOR that all have sinned

Comment: Sin entered the world the first time through Adam, because no one had sinned before him (him and Eve). The verse does not say that SIN passed upon all men but DEATH passed upon all men, and it also explains why this is: Because all have sinned! Not because all have inherited sins from Adam. Notice that ”all men” is a translation from the Greek word ἄνθρωπος (anthrópos, Strong’s 444) and could mean 1) men, 2) men and women, or 3) mankind, people, human beings. It may or may not include babies depending on context. Since the verse claims that we die (spiritually) because we have sinned, this verse cannot be used as support for another idea – like the idea that we die spiritually because we have inherited someone else’s sin. Dying physically is something different, and even Jesus Christ died a physical death. It is possible to say that we die physically due to Adam, because we cannot reach the tree of life due to him.

Example 2) Romans 5:18

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation — 19 so by the obedience of one shall MANY be made righteous.

Comment: The entire context is this:

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation; EVEN SO by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man’s disobedience MANY were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall MANY be made righteous.

If ALL are automatically condemned through Adam, then ALL are automatically made righteous through Jesus. Are 100% of all ALL PEOPLE automatically righteous in Jesus? No, that would be universalism. It is not proper hermeneutics to read ”all” in two different ways in the same sentence – an ”even so” indicates a valid comparison. If ALL die in Adam, then the very same ALL are saved in Christ. If ”many” (not all) were made righteous, then ”many” (not all) were made sinners. We cannot make one absolute and the other conditional. If, however, we add conditions on both accounts (we die spiritually if we sin like Adam, and we become alive in Christ if we choose to believe in him) then we have solved all contradictions. Rom. 5 does list conditions, just like the rest of Romans and just like the rest of the Bible.

Example 3) 1 Corinthians 15:22 

1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Comment: If all people are automatically dead in Adam, then the very same ”all people” are automatically saved in Christ. But this interpretation leads to universalism, and we know this is not true. The context makes it clear that the subject is the RESURRECTION and what will happen when Jesus returns. Most importantly what will happen to those in Christ. They will die physically just like Adam (even Jesus Christ once died physically), and they will be made alive to get their judgments and rewards.

Example 4) Ephesians 2:1

Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Comment: What makes us dead? Sinning makes us (spiritually) dead! It is not being born (or being conceived) which makes us dead, but it is transgressing of his law:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Is. 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Eph. 2 does not say that we are BORN dead in trespasses and sins. How can newborn babies choose to transgress the law of God?

The solution to the problem of sin is to repent, which explains why Paul in Acts 17:30 says that God ”now commandeth all men every where to repent”.

Example 5) Ephesians 2:2-3

Eph. 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Comment: Do not get fooled by the term ”children of disobedience” or ”children of wrath” because these terms refer to those who follow Satan – as the text indicates. Likewise the term ”children of God” (or sons of God) does not necessarily refer to little toddlers, but to those who have chosen to believe and follow God. The text certainly does not claim that people are BORN as children of wrath – merely for the ”crime” of existing. It is crystal clear that those spoken about in Eph. 2:2 are adults. They:

  • have a need or reason to be ”quickened”
  • perform TRESPASSES and SINS and through them be dead
  • walk according to the world
  • walk according to Satan (the prince of the power of the air)
  • are disobedient through following Satan
  • walk in the lusts of their flesh
  • fulfill the desires of their flesh
  • fulfill the desires of their mind

Example 6) 1 Corinthians 2:14

1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

Comment: It is a bad idea to be a natural man, which is a man who lives of the world. If someone is a natural man (which is no obligation), he cannot please God. It is impossible for a person to please God if he at the same time chooses to walk in darkness.

”Natural” is a translation from ψυχικός (psuchikos, Strong’s 5591) and could also be translated ”worldly-minded” or ”sensual”. It describes the behavior of a carnal man who lives of the world. The word can be contrasted with ”spiritual” (pneumatikós, Strong’s 4152).

Example 7) Job 25:4 + Job 15:14

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? 5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be CLEAN? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?15 Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.16 How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?

Comment: The first comment is from Bildad, and the second one is from Eliphaz. They did not always provide good advice to Job. On top of this, the book of Job is replete with poetic expressions. See for instance Job 1:21 and see if you read it in a literal sense.

Example 8) Romans 3:10

Rom. 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Comment: Paul, who made the above statement that no one is righteous, called HIMSELF righteous, along with Silas and Timothy (see 1 Thess. 2:10) and he constantly requested that people should avoid obeying their flesh and be righteous. Paul also said (Acts 23:1) that he had lived ”in all good conscience before God until this day”. (NASB: ”perfectly good conscience”). Paul urged his readers to ”sin no more”! Was Paul a hypocrite or a man of God who we can trust?

Paul was in Rom. 3:10 referring to a couple of well-known psalms where we can read ”there is none righteous ….” and if we go to these psalms (Psalm 14 and Psalm 53) we can see the proper context to this phrase. There we can read about unrighteous people, called FOOLS, who do not seek God but we can also read about righteous people who DO seek God. Psalms contain poetic expressions which are mirroring the truth, so we should carefully keep this in mind.

We can read in Acts 17 that we are created precisely to seek God, even though he is not far away from any of us. We can also read verses such as:

Jer. 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart 

Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you

Below are more psalms, and it would be unwise for us to start new doctrines (which are not supported by non-poetic verses) based on such poetry. Poetic expressions can of course teach us things and be encouraging, but it is not always correct to read poetic texts in a literal sense.

Example 9) Psalm 51:5

Ps. 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me  

Comment: This verse is not about all people in the entire world but concerns only David and his mother. It could be understood both figuratively (the way also king David has battled with dark powers and obstacles very early on) or literally (David’s mother was indeed sinning during the conception) but either way, this verse does not say that we have all inherited Adam’s sin and have a sinful nature from birth. David starts out speaking about his own transgression (not sins inherited from another), and we can read claims from David which could not possibly be understood in a literal sense:

Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice…

Example 10) Psalm 58:3

Ps. 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, SPEAKING LIES  

Comment: Naturally newborn babies cannot speak, much less speak lies. This is just a poetic expression to describe that the wicked man go astray very early on and usually continue on this path. The psalmist starts out addressing a ”congregation” and apparently they are old enough to SPEAK since they are asked if they speak righteousness. They are also old enough to JUDGE, they are able to WORK WICKEDNESS in their hearts and WEIGH the violence of their hands. Babies are unable to do any of that, and it is the WICKED who ”are estrange”. If someone goes astray, it means he must have started from a position where it was not ”astray”. In verse 10 and 11 we can read about righteous people who do NOT go astray:

10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. 11So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.

Some people might ask: ”If we are not born with a sinful nature, why do we sin?” Well, why did Adam and Eve sin? Certainly not due to a sinful nature. They might also ask ”If we are not born with a sinful nature, why did Jesus have to die for us?”. Because we have chosen to sin – despite that we did not have to. This is what makes us guilty.

If we are born with a sinful nature (which would provide an excellent excuse for sin), why does the Bible not disclose this important piece of information anywhere? Why can we read the exact opposite story? Moreover, the idea of the sinful nature actually reduces the great deeds that Jesus Christ did for us, when we accuse him of not having to struggle with a sinful nature as the rest of us. In reality, Jesus was tempted in all things just like us and he did not get an advantage.

rom-8The Bible says that babies are innocent

While there are no Bible verses which say we are born with a sinful nature (or born depraved, which is not even a word included in the KJV Bible), the Bible does say that we are wonderfully made.

Zecharia 12:1  The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and FORMETH THE SPIRIT OF MAN WITHIN HIM. 

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet bornNEITHER HAVING DONE ANY GOOD OR EVIL, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God AS A LITTLE CHILD, he shall not enter therein.

Isaiah 7:16 For BEFORE THE CHILD SHALL KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL, AND CHOOSE THE GOOD, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. 

Isaiah 42:Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and SPIRIT to them that walk therein

Job. 31:14 What then shall I do when God riseth up? and when he visiteth, what shall I answer him?15 Did not HE THAT MADE ME IN THE WOMB make him? and DID NOT ONE FASHION US IN THE WOMB? 

Ps. 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.14 I will praise thee; for I AM FEARFULLY AND WONDERFULLY MADE: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Ps,73 Thy hands have made me and FASHIONED ME: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.  

Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that GOD HATH MADE MAN UPRIGHT; but THEY they have sought out many inventions.  

The pre-existence of Jesus with his Father before the foundation of the world

trinity 4The Alpha and Omega, the first and the last – a name claimed by both Jesus and GOD

Jesus claims to be the first, but surely God is the very first? This indicates that Jesus rightfully claims to be God, rather than being someone who confuses innocent Bible readers by apparently taking the role of someone he is not.

The son of God, Jesus Christ, was born in flesh by virgin Mary about 2000 years ago, but it was his own prior choice and he had previously pre existed in a former state. Jesus pre existed before he became a man and walked upon the earth.

John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.— 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Sometimes the trinity is compared with an egg, consisting of the yolk, the white and the shell, where each part could be regarded as God the Father, God the son and God the holy Spirit. The weakness with this illustration is that each part is about 33% of the egg, whereas each person in the trinity (apart from being a separate part of the trinity) is each 100% God and definitely no half-gods. Maybe a better analogy might be one pile of sand split into three piles of sand. Each pile is 100% sand which is the original substance – even though there are even more original substance in existence. It is possible to start with one pile of sand, split it into more piles, and join the pile back together again. Maybe this analogy helps when reading poetic expressions about the son going forth from God which is the original starting point. This does not mean that Jesus started to exist in the moment he took the shape of a human being. Another analogy might be water being split into three puddles, or fire where you to take a lit candle and lit two more candles with it.

Maybe a business company can also help as an illustration. The ONE company might consist of three owners/employees who have mutually decided which role each one of them should have in the company. They might even decide which one of them that should take on the ”greater” role, and be the company’s official frontage. They might start out together on location but decide to let one of them make some business travelling in order to promote the company and get more customers. Another one might be responsible for the administration and the third one might be responsible for practical needs such as food supply and maintenance. We are still talking about ONE company.

Bible verses showing Jesus in the godheadonly god

The below verses are rather self-explanatory. Jesus existed before all things and by him were all things created, both visible and invisible. Is God something? Can he be filed under visible or invisible? Yes, so he could not have existed before Jesus, since Jesus was before all things and was first. If we understand Jesus to be God, however, there are no contradictions. God is eternal and has always existed before all things.

Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn (4416) of every creature:16 For BY HIM were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created BY HIM, and for him:17 And he is BEFORE all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn (4416) from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

So Jesus is the one who created all things with his own hands, and yet Jahve is said to have done the same thing (and that no one was with him). Again either we have a contradiction or Jesus is part of the trinity:

Hebr. 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands

Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Is. 42:5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Is 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.-— 18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

Jesus existence before came to earth as God in flesh:

Daniel 3:25 Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Micah 5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.

The Jews certainly understood what Jesus meant with the claim that he had seen Abraham (despite that Abraham lived before Jesus) and when Jesus used God’s name ”I am” on himself. They immediately took up stones to kill him, just like the Jewish law prescribes concerning those who blaspheme God:

John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Jesus prayed to his Father and asked him to glorify him (Jesus) with the glory which he had with his Father before the existence of the world. It is interesting that Jahve does not share his glory with anyone, and yet Jesus requests to share his precise glory – which he is granted. The only way to solve this is through the trinity. It is further illogical to love someone if he is only an idea or a plan.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.— 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Is. 42:8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Hebr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Who being the brightness of HIS GLORY, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Jesus is the word3Jesus is said to have made the decision to become a servant on earth and to be made in the likeness of men. God is also stated to having sent his son, which is not a contradiction since Jesus is part of the godhead:

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the GLORY of God the Father.

Below is more about the divine GLORY that Jesus had, despite that Jahve explicitly does not share his glory with anyone. Jesus was also the WORD, and this word was in the beginning with God. Not only that, but the word was God! This word (Jesus) became flesh. This is something that God the Father never did, but Jesus certainly did:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.— 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his GLORY, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

Jesus is called the first and the last, Alpha and Omega. Just like God calls himself. Either Jesus is blaspheming God and confuses the innocent Bible readers, or God is part of the godhead:

Rev. 1:And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY.I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa. 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.12 Hearken unto me, O Jacoband Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Isa 44:Thus saith the Lord the King of Israeland his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. 

Jesus was described as the spiritual rock that followed the Israelites through the Exodus:

1 Cord. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

When it comes to the Angel of the Lord (not a created messenger), you can read this post. The Angel of the Lord communicated with God in heaven, despite calling himself God.

Psalms and proverbs mirror the reality, so we must be careful to not automatically understand all poetical expressions and songs as being literal in all details. We can often read about the son being the first-born, only begotten, was brought forth, etc, and they are description of the word that became flesh.

Jesus prayed to his Father and communicated with himJesus birth

Jesus is not the same person as his Father, and Jesus frequently prayed and communicated with his Father – showing they are different persons in the same godhead. God is naturally ONE (a very clear teaching in the Bible and very central  teaching for both Jews and Christians), but this one God consists of three persons and dimensions.

Jesus will sit at the right hand side of God (God the Father), and even if taken symbolically this clearly shows the two are not the same person but different ones in the godhead. The lamb of God, which is Jesus, walked up to him who sat on the throne to take the book with the seven seals:

Rev. 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

When Jesus was as a child he grew and became strong in spirit, indicating he is a different person from his Father who always had full spiritual capabilities and knowledge:

Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.— 49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?

Jesus, as man on earth, did not know the time of the last days, but he claims that his Father knows:

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus made a difference between his Father’s will and his own will. Naturally Jesus came to earth to fulfill a task and he was always willing to do that – until death. If Jesus communicated with himself and asking himself about what was possible, it would be highly confusing.

Matt. 26:39 39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

John 4:34 34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Jesus counts himself as one witness and his Father as another witness – thus two witnesses. Jesus even says that his own witness is not true if he only bears witness of himself. Fortunately his Father makes up another witness, confirming what Jesus was saying. On top of that, Jesus says he did not come to do his own will but the will (another will) of the Father that sent him:

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

John 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Jesus communicated with his Father on the cross. It was not the entire trinity who died on the cross, but Jesus Christ, the son of God:

Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The voice of the Father came from heaven, at the same time as Jesus was on earth and prayed to his Father. They are clearly distinct persons, but in the same godhead:

John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

More examples where Jesus makes a distinction between himself and his Father:

Matt 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.—42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.30 I and my Father are one.31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, BEING A MAN, makest thyself GOD.— 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

John 11:41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

1 Cor. 8: 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Hebr. 1:1 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;— 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. — 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. — 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. — 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.— 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.— 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.—16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. –— 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

jesus 2John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:— .8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.— 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.1 — 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.  — 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world

Eating blood is a sin, but a blood transfusion is not – Jehovah’s Witnesses

blod 1Eating/drinking blood is one thing, and injecting blood something else

I have RH0 Negative blood, which is rather rare – with only about 6-7% of the European population (see possible traits here). I would therefore benefit greatly if other people with this particular blood type would donate blood, in case someone like me needed it. Would it hypothetically be a sin for me to withdraw blood from myself and inject it later on, despite that it is the very same blood which ran through my veins moments ago? Or would it only be a sin if I inject someone else’s blood?

We can share blood with each other if we only belong to the same blood group. Our blood can be traced back to Adam and Eve, and they were created very good.

Jehovah’s witnesses are known for making a parallel between blood transfusions and eating blood, and they view both alternatives as a sin. The Bible clearly prohibits us from eating blood (Acts 15:28-29), but the JW’s wrongly assume that it is therefore also wrong to donate blood and receive blood transfusions, despite that the latter does not entail eating or drinking. We already have blood in our bodies, and that is not a sin. Why would it be a sin to add more blood into our veins, particularly if our blood runs low? In a blood transfusion the blood is lead directly into the cardiovascular system (the circulatory system), which means that it is never led through the digestive system the way food does. The prohibition of blood intake is in relation to food and drink in the Bible!

But there is some light:

”A blood transfusion is no more eating blood than a skin graft is cannibalism” (James D. BalesJehovah’s Witnesses, p. 30).

In the past, also vaccinations were prohibited among Jehovah’s Witnesses (up until the 1970’s) as well as organ transplants (up until the 1980’s). It would be better for the witnesses to avoid certain vaccinations (which indeed could be harmful), rather than blood which can literally save lives.

Below we can see that ”abstaining from blood” concerns food situations.

Apg. 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. .28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

The Bible encourages us to save lives (Mark 2.23–28), and the story shows that the law was never meant to hinder us from taking logical actions – like saving innocent lives if we have this opportunity.

Mark. 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Also Luke 13.10–17; 14.1–6, and Matt. 12.9–14 show that God does not prohibit us from saving lives even on a Sabbath, but that he rather expects us to. We should not add to Scriptures by suggesting that God would prohibit us also from blood transfusions if such thing was known during Biblical times. It is a huge leap to believe that God would not like if we saved people’s lives through blood transfusions. It makes sense to have blood in our veins and we cannot live without it, but we can definitely live without eating blood and getting blood into our digestive system.

Unborn children have once been nourished and stayed alive through their pregnant mothers’ blood system through the cord, so why would it be a sin if the same children hypothetically would get blood transfusions from their mothers when they are born? Blood will circulate in our veins even if we abstain from eating blood.

Sinning is transgressing the commandments of God, but there are no laws in the Bible prohibiting us from giving or receiving blood transfusions. God knows that we know that blood transfusions can save lives, and that we would therefore be motivated to do it (and there are no Biblical laws against it). It would be unreasonable to think that we would risk losing our souls based on a misunderstanding.

The Old Testament about eating blood blood

The Old Testament does not say anything else but that we should not eat (or drink) blood from either animals or human beings. The reason for this is that the life is in the blood – which of course is a factor also today (the fact has not changed). This could explain why blood indeed runs in our veins as long as we are alive. When we die, blood no longer runs in our veins. The blood certainly makes the difference between life and death. Eating something/someone with the blood would be comparable with eating someone’s life, which would be an abomination before the Lord.

Gen. 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man’s brother will I require the life of man. 

Lev. 17:10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you,– and will cut him off from among his people.11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.13 And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

Deut. 12:16 Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.—  22 Even as the roebuck and the hart is eaten, so thou shalt eat them: the unclean and the clean shall eat of them alike.23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.24 Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water. 

1 Chron. 11:18 And the three brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: but David would not drink of it, but poured it out to the Lord.19 And said, My God forbid it me, that I should do this thing: shall I drink the blood of these men that have put their lives in jeopardy? for with the jeopardy of their lives they brought it. Therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mightiest.

1 Sam. 14: 32 And the people flew upon the spoil, and took sheep, and oxen, and calves, and slew them on the ground: and the people did eat them with the blood.33 Then they told Saul, saying, Behold, the people sin against the Lord, in that they eat with the blood. And he said, Ye have transgressed: roll a great stone unto me this day.34 And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay them here, and eat; and sin not against the Lord in eating with the blood. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew them there.