“Always be ready to give a DEFENSE to everyone WHO ASKS you a reason for the hope that is in you, with MEEKNESS and fear” 1 Pet. 3:15 (NKJV)
The flat earth movement is getting increasingly more popular, and this means that it is logical to take an interest in the subject – to find out why people believe in a flat earth. (Whereas others for some reason get angry at people who do so.) Especially if there is someone out there who believes flat earthers are not even saved due to their incorrect view of the shape of the earth. Unfortunately many globe earthers engage in flat earth discussions with the completely wrong attitude, which leads to that they are wasting their time and make the flat earthers even more confident that they are on the right track. Why else would the globe earthers make so little effort to prove their arguments wrong but resort to demeaning remarks? Is that all they can do? The only way to convince the flat earthers that they are in error, is to study what they believe and debunk those arguments. If you are not able to do so (because you only superficially understand their model and make the wrong assumptions) then it is a lot wiser to remain as a person just asking questions. You will not gain anything by raising up straw man arguments – debating something that no one believes.
Please do not get mad at people who honestly believe something! Sure, they might be in error, but if they have investigated something and are TRULY convinced that it is true, why being upset about it? Would it be better if they lied and denied what they believe, like saying one thing with their mouths and another thing in their hearts? Do you want to scare them into silence? If you manage to scare them into silence, then you will of course not help them out of their errors, but they will continue to believe as before but they will not share their thoughts with you. If they are wrong, is it not better to have a mature conversation about it and get them on the right track? Would Jesus Christ really ridicule and patronize people who honestly believed something is true? Would that behavior convince them that they are wrong? Jesus took the time to explain why the pharisees were in error. When Jesus met the woman at the well, he did not get mad, or raise his voice, or jump up and down, but he explained to her how she could turn her life around for the better. Paul had many discussions with misinformed people.
There are two common reasons to be interested in the flat earth movement that I have noticed. I can say from the start that I belong to the first group:
- Since the flat earth idea has become so popular, it is interesting to find out how the flat earth model works and which arguments flat earthers use to support their theories (and which arguments they use to disregard the globe earth). For example, how do they explain the fact that it is possible to circumnavigate the earth? If I have plans to make claims that the flat earth theory does not work, then it would be dishonest if I did not first made sure to understand the theory I am complaining about. I would like to treat others they way I would like to be treated myself. If I do not even know how their theory works, I lack enough knowledge to debunk them.
- The other alternative: Since the flat earth theory (which I know almost nothing about) is wrong, I would like to explain to the lost person why it is easily debunked. I will therefore not waste my time by watching flat earth videos, but rather videos which debunk the flat earth (from their opponents). IF I choose to watch a flat earth video, it better be short and I would make sure to have pen and paper handy in order to list things I am about to debunk. That would be my only reason for watching it, and to be able to say “Yes, I’ve watched flat earth videos, and I therefore know all about their model”. What is presented about the flat earth model in those videos (from the opponents), that IS what the flat earthers believe! Of course I can trust the flat earthers’ opponents to get it right.
Below are some common mistakes which globe earthers make in their discussions:
Demeaning and patronizing remarks
Globe earthers do not seem to understand that all flat earthers used to be globe earthers. As globe earthers, they had the exact same sentiments and used the same arguments which present day globe earthers use. It is therefore a total waste of time to use excessive descriptions about how ignorant, fooled and deceived those are who believe in a flat earth. They already know this is how you feel! They used to feel the same way! They used to have the very same arguments! It would not help in the least if you compared them with mormons, Jehovah’s witnesses, muslims, etc and spent time explaining in detail how easily fooled they are. Again, they already know this is how you feel! You can write page after page with explanations about how deceived and confused they are, because you will still get nowhere. Your information is not new to them. They would only say “been there, done that”. Adjectives such as ridiculous, absurd, insane, horrid, stupid, foolish, awful, laughable, childish, preposterous, unbelievable, etc, mean nothing to them even if you add several exclamation marks, add several “lol:s” and scream tin-foil hats and kooks after them. You are wasting your time. Please note that many (or most, or maybe even all …) of them started to check out flat earth videos in order to debunk them and get examples of how deceived flat earthers are, and instead they were converted themselves. Not because they like conspiracy theories (they might hate them), but because they felt the facts point to a flat earth and away from a globe earth.
“The flat earthers know better”!
Maybe the most important thing to remember about the flat earthers is this:
They TRULY believe the earth is flat! People might say that they of course already know this, but the same people might still claim that the flat earthers “know better” than believing in their theory and “deep in their hearts they know they are wrong”. So make up your mind now. Do you believe that the flat earthers truly believe in the flat earth model, or do you believe that they do not truly believe it after all? Does it matter? Yes, it matters a great deal, because the first option means they still deserve respect, and the other option means the opposite. The first option means that the flat earthers speak the truth about what they believe, and the other option means they are liars and purposely spread falsehood. If you purposely spread a theory which you KNOW is erroneous and fake, this is indeed to cause confusion – as in lying. How then can such a person be a saved Christian? Does not this mean that you cannot be a flat earther and a Christian at the same time? Surely God would have told us in the Bible that it is not enough to repent, believe in Jesus Christ and follow his commandments, but that you must also believe in the correct form of the earth in order to be saved?
If a globe earther does not believe that flat earthers believe in their own theory, he/she is deeply mistaken. Flat earthers (unless they claim otherwise) are convinced about their theory and TRULY believe it is true. It is rather disrespectful to not even trust that people believe whatever they claim they believe in. Why the doubt? This does not mean they are right about their model, but it means that they likely know better than you do what they themselves believe and why they believe it. If they are wrong, then just explain why by using proper facts and arguments. Can you do this without understanding their model? If you make false assumptions about their model, the conversation might deteriorate because of you. Flat earthers will not be persuaded by patronizing remarks, but they might be persuaded by facts.
“Conspiracy theorists are intentionally LOOKING for ways to turn an official story into a conspiracy theory and are PLEASED to find conspiracies. They are NOT interested in looking for ways to see if the official story might work!”
A statement like the above is a great way to close doors for communication and obstruct a meaningful conversation. I personally know a lot of conspiracy theorists (truth seekers), but I know of no one who is looking for conspiracies. I find that the complete OPPOSITE is true. They absolutely H A T E conspiracies, and the first step they take is to see if they can find ways to save the official story – in order to not end up with yet another government story that does not fit the evidence. Non-conspiracists might reason: “Since these people believe in multiple conspiracy theories and refuse to budge, this means they love to turn official stories into conspiracy theories just for the joy of it”. What about the opposite alternative, that they do everything they can to save the official story but fail to do so since the facts refuse to cooperate?
If a story does not work due to anomalies (like steel beams turning into dust for no reason) and strange coincidences (like the coroner’s presence at the Sandy Hook school hours before the arrival of the shooter), then unfortunately a person will naturally start to believe that the official story is a lie and that there is a conspiracy. He might investigate the matter even further and find even more anomalies, impossibilities and lies. What is stupid about siding with the facts?
Could it be the Globe earthers who are far more interested in debunking the flat earth theory, than understanding the theory?
Many globe earthers are way more interested in DEBUNKING the flat earth theory than DOING RESEARCH about the flat earth theory to see how it works. This means that the globe earthers have not made their homework and it will be extremely difficult to have a conversation. The flat earther knows about BOTH theories, and the globe earther only knows about ONE theory. The confusion deepens when the globe earther does not even understand his/her lack of knowledge.
A conversation could still run smoothly if the globe earther chooses to ask questions, because no previous knowledge is required for asking questions. Unfortunately many globe earthers work in the exact opposite way. They start off sticking their chins out by making brave claims that they know “everything there is to know” about the flat earth, or that they know it “very well”, or that they have “studied it thoroughly for years”, or similar. Still, many might not even know how a flat earth map looks like! They want to debunk the theory and think they can do this convincingly without studying it.
Learning about the flat earth model through their opponents
Globe earthers often link to videos which supposedly debunk the flat earth, but since the globe earthers avoid flat earth videos as the plague, they do not detect the straw man arguments presented in the globe earth videos. This will make a discussion hard to follow since the flat earther must take his/her time to explain their model to the globe earther who has not done his homework. You can lead the horse to the water, but you cannot make it drink. The safest way to avoid misrepresentations of a model, is to go the source of those who are proponents to that model. Not their enemies!
Globe earthers often assume that they are the ones with the wider knowledge about the topic (the shape of the earth), but if they have not studied the flat earth model they only know ONE side of the argument and not TWO sides as the flat earthers.
NASA – “Never A Straight Answer”
Just about all information about the moon landings and the flat earth comes from NASA. This is ONE source and it is not an objective source. NASA receives billions of dollars every year from American tax payers (like 19,3 billion dollars for the year 2017), and would of course like to display great success in order to continue getting a steady stream of money. It is a good thing to be skeptic about information from NASA because they have proven to be liars, cheaters and green screen lovers. You will also find military and/or free masons in the very top. There are lots of flat earth believers, but there are even more people (me included) who believe the moon landings are fake. Bart Sibrel’s (a Christian man) movie “A funny thing happened on the way to the moon”, proves that NASA faked half way to the moon and this website shows that the photographs are fake. I can also recommend Jarrah White’s video channel “Moonfaker” .
Globe earthers should try to understand why flat earthers will not accept NASA as a source. Not all flat earth arguments must involve NASA, so it is probably easier to focus on those arguments if you want to debunk the flat earth.
Why has no one been to the edge?
Because they have been to the edge. The edge = Antarctica. Globe earthers would save a lot of time if they read about the Antarctic treaty and about admiral Richard Byrd as well as his expeditions to Antarctica. No one is allowed to go anywhere near Antarctica without authorized company, and if anyone tries he/she will be shot.
How could all NASA employees and other millions of people keep such a secret?
This is a very common question, and if the globe earthers had studied the flat earth, they would know that the flat earthers do not believe that a lot of NASA employees are aware of either a faked moon landing or a flat earth (particularly not the latter). They rather believe that only a few people in the very top of certain affected organisations would know about it, and they are likely tied to the military (or CIA) and have signed secrecy agreements. For example, think about the famous films/pictures of the control center i Houston, in 1969, where loads of people can be seen in front of their screens (or elsewhere) screaming and shouting. How many of them would know that the moon landing was a hoax? None of them would have to know.
Why would not some of the insiders disclose their findings? Likely because they are military and/or free masons, but some do disclose it. But who would they really tell, and who would believe them and spread it further? A newspaper? And the reporters on that newspaper would immediately start to write about it? Of course not. Others have spread the news, or intended to spread the news, and suddenly died very young in suicides or sudden accidents.
The flat earth theory highlights a trustworthy Bible which means what it says
Some globe earthers claim the flat earth theory is of Satan because it is causing confusion and deception. I am not afraid of the flat earth theory at all, because it promotes a trustworthy Bible – which Satan would never do. The flat earthers often highlight that the the Bible means what it says when it comes to the creation order (the earth before the sun), the description of the sun, moon, stars and the firmament, but also the various details provided about the earth. The earth is described as being stationary (does not move…), placed on pillars, having four corners and with a dome over it like a tent – where we are living under and inside the firmament/tent. The earth is also described as being God’s footstool. Naturally it would not be a literal footstool but if the earth looked like a ball, the analogy would not make any sense whatsoever. On the other hand, a flat earth, with four pillars beneath it and four corners, would look precisely as a footstool. There is a Hebrew word for “ball” which is not used in the Bible when it comes to describing the earth, but the word for “circle” is used. Joshua’s long day, where both the sun and the moon are claimed to stand still, does not make any sense in a heliocentric model, but makes perfect sense in a geocentric model. Again, flat earthers often point out that we can trust the Bible exactly as it says, from beginning to end, and this is the opposite of what Satan would do. Satan would try to lead us away from the Bible by fooling us to believe that the Bible contains multiple anomalies and things that do not fit the reality. Satan is responsible for popularizing the Evolution theory, and there are still Christians (old earth creationists) who try to combine a billions of years old earth with the Bible.
The other day I happened to see a person (Person 1 below) who entered a flat earth thread on Facebook and spent several posts in describing how important it was to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. He explained that it was his discovery of the flat earth which made him think harder and realized that the earth is way too unique to not have a creator, etc. Even if the concept of a flat earth is naturally not the only reason for believing in God, for some people it can still be the catalyst to think twice about the big bang, Evolution, billions of years, earth being a tiny speck in the vast universe, life on other planets, etc.
Person 1: when I finally found it it blew my being to pieces and shattered all my preconceived ideas. But it took a personal encounter and I had to get to the end of myself to be willing to give it a go. That was way way back in time but I havent walked away from it since…..
Person 2: when I found out about the flat earth that was a rollercoaster ride for me mentality lol going from a atheist to believing a creator, I definitely don’t rule out the bible not at all, it’s early days for me iv only been a flat earther for a year
Person 3: i was atheist before coming to FE
I have seen many similar confessions, and that is why I am not at all afraid of the flat earth movement. The devil would not help out promoting a trustworthy Bible nor move us closer to a Creator, but he would do the exact opposite.
“They have answers for everything!”
When it comes to conspiracy theories in general, it is actually the official story believers who always have answers (excuses) for everything. They are ready to excuse lie after lie coming from the government (or NASA), and they will excuse any anomaly there is even if they really have no valid solution to a known problem. Just like a muslim who is ready to defend their prophet no matter what he has done. Why did WTC7 decide to fall at free fall speed for no reason? How come the fall was announced 22 minutes before it fell? Why did the plane at Pentagon and the one in Pennsylvania leave any trace of either luggage och passengers? Why so many cell phone calls from the planes, when such connections have proven to be absolutely impossible? The excuses might go:
“There simply must be a valid reason even if it is not known … The government wouldn’t lie to us … That would be just too absurd …”, etc
If you do not even believe the moon landings are fake, or that 9/11 is an inside job, you will likely not be able to understand flat earthers
You would be too far apart. If you believe man has been on the moon, it is better that you start with this issue before you engage yourself in a flat earth discussion.
Can you explain why portable toilets and refreshments were ordered to the Sandy Hook school before the day of the shooting? You might ask “What are you talking about? I’ve never heard of that!”, and that is the point. Always remember that the conspiracy theorist knows about TWO sides of the story (the official one and the conspiracy) whereas you only know about the official one. YOU lack in knowledge. Not the conspiracy theorist.
There are too many false flag events to study in depth, but I have studied numerous by reading books, articles and watched/listened to youtube films. Some might claim it is a waste of valuable time, but I have managed to cover a lot of information through listening to my ipod when I am out running, and my night shift job also enables me to study. On the other hand I do not wast my time watching football …
I have encountered Christians who are upset (angry) when they understand that I do not swallow the official story of 9/11 (for example) and they lack in patience. They might on one hand ask me to prove a conspiracy, but on the other hand refuse to go through any of information/links I provide which can provide answers. It is like they want me to prove a conspiracy in five sentences and if I am not able to do that then they “won” and my view is deemed as incorrect. I certainly do not open all links myself that I receive from others, but I would if I am the one starting out with the claim that there is no proof for something.
It was Dr. Heisner(sp), a theologian. He had a seminar on why the Jews believed in the flat earth. He gave Bible verse after verse. In the end he said you have to understand, they didn’t have rockets or airplanes…
Anywho, 4 hours later as I was working in my garage and pondered what he said… God’s word is true and proves itself. I watched his video several more times… Eph 6:12.
My faith grew! Love God’s word… faith of a child… tho none will go I will follow!
So much more to say, ask God and be ready for a ride! Cheers
“Let God be true and every man a liar”. We can trust the word of God 🙂
I say we ALL get along, because we ALL have a COMMON ENEMY, the powers that be, the elites, freemasons, kabbahlists, Jewish banking cartels, the rulers of darkness, illuminati, Satan worshipper celebrities, who control and own the government’s of the world and the world leaders, they pull the strings in the shadows of darkness from their castles and underground bunkers and palaces.
They do not have any of our best interests in mind and they wish to exterminate a large portion of our population via touchless tourture, directed energy weapons, and throwing those of us who accuse them of harming us or our lives ones in mental asylums and drugging us up so we can’t fight back. They use bio nano weapons like morgellons that infect us and act as a surveilance apparatus, it is impossible to blame whoever is the culprit because there’s no evidence so we get labelled as insane and thrown into asylums. The law enforcement and firefighters are in on it, most cops beyond sergeant are required to become freemasons to ascend to higher ranks.
Basically, we are all screwed, whether we believe the earth is flat or not.
We need to get along and stop hating on each other.
If you do some research you will find that the Masons, Templars, etc,., are the ENEMY of humanity.
I don’t claim to know everything. And I realize I’m not a genius or have university degrees, that’s just how I feel.
The shape of the world is the least of our concerns when bloodthirsty psychopaths are in control of everything from the top.
You have great advice and it’s important what you say. However, even if the shape of the earth does not matter to our salvation (spherical or flat), it still matters a great deal since I’ve seen too many people describe how they have become more interested in both God and the Bible ever since becoming flatearthers. It’s easy to understand why Evolution combined with heliocentrism in a vast cosmos would create the idea that God is not needed, might not even exist, and that we are totally worthless in a world that has existed for billions of years and came about accidentally.
I speculate that the firmament instead of the earth’s shape is perhaps the most relevant matter as it pertains to faith for this reason. Since the earth is protected by the firmament above – which is a solid, domed structure then nothing can penetrate the firmament making space travel an impossibility. This would make the existence of aliens and UFOs an impossibility since they too cannot penetrate God’s domed-covered earth. The Jesuits who influenced Copernicus to pedal his heliocentric theory way back then are still in action today as Jesuit astronomers who continue to promote the lie. But for what reason? So that the world’s population and those who are weak in the faith will have no difficulty accepting aliens as real when in fact they are demonic entities. Those who believe in a flat, stationary earth protected by the firmament will not be deceived and their faith remains.
Yes the firmament is a concept that can be found in different cultures, and it’s particularly known from the Bible. If the firmament is true, then space, distant stars and planets (the way they are presented) are untrue, and yes aliens would be unreal as well (unless we want to call them fallen angels or demons). There are people who are not prone to believe in conspiracies and yet admit they believe the elite (like NASA and the government) are hiding things for us in terms of UFO:s, aliens, habitable planets, life in distant galaxies, etc. That would be one of the few conspiracies that I don’t believe in myself …. I believe that NASA people are thrilled to know that so many people believe in aliens and Hollywood is helping out to promote this idea.
Hi Dan – I would not consider myself “knowledgeable” about this subject so I hesitate to contribute to this discussion. Moreover, I have no clue regarding maritime navigation and would have to defer to your knowledge of the subject. However, it seems to me that our personal/professional experience can greatly influence the way we interpret the Bible. Since your perception of the earth is influenced by your own maritime experience, my question would be is your experience universally shared by all mariners?
The reason I ask that question is that my ancestors were Polynesians. They were renown maritime navigators who sailed all over the Pacific navigating great distances between small islands in a vast ocean. They did not rely on maritime maps; instead they used their knowledge of celestial bodies, winds, currents and atmospheric conditions as their navigational tools. I suppose if anyone knew what the earth was like, it would have been those people who had keen observational skills honed over generations of transpacific travel – all without maps. Based on their observations and experience, did these ancient Polynesian mariners also share in your perception that the earth is a sphere? Did they perceive the earth as moving and revolving around the sun? At it’s most basic level, science is founded upon observation and repeatable results. So I think it is worth asking does their knowledge of maritime travel and of the earth, differ from yours (or mine)?
I have linked an article below describing their beliefs regarding the earth and the cosmos and have quoted from passages in the article relevant to this discussion. What is remarkable to me is that the beliefs of these people who were not Christians, mirror what is described in the Bible in terms of the shape of the earth and our cosmology.
I believe the Bible describes the earth as a stationary flat circle on pillars, with a solid firmament above the earth. The sun, moon and stars are all situated below the solid firmament and not in “outer space” as science teaches. The apostle Paul mentioned that he was taken to the third heaven. Compare this with quotes from this article which is linked below:
“The Polynesians of old conceived of the sky as a dome or inverted bowl resting upon the rim of the hemispherical earth….The triple heaven thus consisted of three hemispherical zones, the highest being purely celestial, the lowest terrestrial, and between them was the ka lewa “the air or space.”
“The orbits of the moon and stars were also thought to be in the same region with that of the sun, but the earth was supposed to be solid and motionless.”
“The general cosmological concept of a hemispherical heaven resting upon the rim of a hemispherical earth is reflected in the ancient names for the horizon and the cardinal points. The word kukulu, appearing in many phrases, originally signified a vertical erection of some kind. In the names of the cardinal points, kukulu evidently refers to the four great pillars, supporting the dome of heaven at these points. Kukulu also appears to have the derived meaning of circle, as in the phrase for horizon, probably coming from the idea of a circular wall surrounding the earth and holding in the ocean.” Could this be in reference to the Antarctic ice wall that circumscribes the flat earth and not the “South Pole” that science would have us believe?
Apparently, these ancient mariners did not share the beliefs espoused by most modern mariners today as it relates to the reality of our earth and cosmos.
Click to access Hawaiian_astronomy_I.pdf
Thanks Dan and Evan for your input. That was very interesting what you wrote about the Polynesians, Evan.
Sorry again, the highest airplane would be about 1/100 of an inch but the other comparisons are about right.
Thanks for your posts. I’m glad you’re aware of that NASA is a scam, and it’s even better that you’re of Christian faith. That is the most important issue after all.
Even though the rise of the flat earth belief interests me, I’m afraid I don’t have time to engage in debates and this is not even my topic. If you are interested in the maritime industry, and would like to know how a flat earther with this background could come to his conclusions about the shape of the earth, it’s better that you contact him (I gave you some contact info). Having a discussion with a person with hardly any knowledge of this industry would of course not get you anywhere. Neither is it possible for you to make the claim that “they don’t answer” or “they ignore the questions”, unless you address the right people.
Photo of ship. It actually takes just one example of a camera zoom taking the ship back into picture again, to prove that the “ship-disappearing-behind-the-horizon” doesn’t work. There are LOADS of such films. There are also films that show how feet seem to disappear when filming a person walking away, by placing the camera on the ground. The lower parts of the person evidently don’t disappear due to any curvature.
. <<From a navigating Mariners point of view based on observation and experience flat Earth is impossible.
A FE mariner would disagree with you. Also FE pilots, FE navigators, etc. Some of them are devout Christians.
I don't understand your claim about the roundness of the earth since you should know that a flat earther would bring up cases with high altitude balloons reaching up to 100000 feet, showing no curvature.
The Bible indeed mentions the four corners of the earth, and maybe you have even seen pictures of this earth model, showing a flat earth, with a firmament above it, placed on four pillars. The image makes the viewer think of a footstool, and it's interesting that this picture is also mentioned about God where the earth is his FOOTSTOOL. That is quite remarkable.
<<The Bible also refers to the circle of the earth. How do flat earthers justify this?
This is proof for me that you have yet more things to learn about the FE and the FE Bible view, which of course is fine. (I don't know everything there is to know myself.) The problem would only arise if you would make claims such as "they can't answer" or "they ignore the questions". The circle of the earth is likely on the very top of FAQ, clearly answered by the Christian flat earthers. It does say circle. It doesn't say ball or globe. You even mention Rob Skiba, and he has definitely described the FE Bible model including your issues.
You can also study what flat earthers believe about gravity and why they disagree with it. Since you misrepresent the other side (by mistake I'm sure), just study what the other side believe. Instead you claim they overlook things.
About the ISS, NASA can make any claims they like. NASA are known liars. It's not possible to see an object large as a bus 20 kilometers away, much less an object like ISS even further away. Even Flat Earth man explains this 🙂
Bjorkbloggen, supposedly the ISS is 265 miles above earth. I don’t know if anyone is aboard but something is up there that looks like it as I have friends that have seen it through telescopes, and you can sometimes see it with the naked eye. If earth were a basketball the ISS would be less than 1/4 inch above the surface of the basketball. The highest flying military cargo jets fly no higher than 50,000 feet, the SR 71 went to 90,000 feet. 50,000 feet is about 9 1/2 miles, 1/27 of 1/4 inch above that basketball. That is just some perspective of how big the earth is and why pilots don’t see curvature or the horizon receding. An aircraft at 50,000 feet above earth is like being 1/400 of an inch off of the surface of a basketball. The areas between the dimples on a basketball would be 10 to 20 times as deep as the Grand canyon. An ant would be a gargantuan creature that goes even beyond biblical proportions. It would tower over the highest airplanes in the sky and they would see a giant ant right below them if anyone were on the ISS. people don’t often think about how big the earth really is. It only makes sense that you can not see curvature in an airplane. But you can see it very clearly at sea level on the smooth surface of the ocean.
Bjorkbloggen, sorry, I guess that photo was the top of a city skyline. I just picked one out of dozens on the internet. But that is an even better example as buildings would no doubt be taller than a ship and setting on elevated ground. If you look underneath that photo there are examples of ships too. A few more things, the Air Force navigator gave an analogy of an ant on a basketball. That analogy might be good if he were high above the earth in an airplane. The ants eyes would be very, very high above earths surface and the ant would be many miles long in that analogy. A person would be more like a single molecule on a basketball. The ant would see no curvature although his eye level would be miles above the earth, the horizon would still seem to be at eye level. But he would see that eye level horizon in a 360° circle all the way around him. 360° of curvature. It is claimed that the Bible makes it clear that earth is flat and the model is a round disc. But the Bible refers to the four corners of the earth. That would make it a square. The Bible also refers to the circle of the earth. How do flat earthers justify this? Flat earthers also do not believe in gravity and claim that Tesla did not believe in gravity and also believed in flat Earth. But Tesla believed that the force called gravity had to do with magnetism and mentioned the globe several times in his writings. Whatever the force, there is something that keeps us on the ground and gives us weight, even if the earth is flat, there is still something that forces us down to the surface. Please don’t take this personal, I’m only trying to make a point that a lot of people overlook. Whatever you think about heaven, it is a different realm where apparently the laws of Newtonian physics do not apply. They don’t have the restrictions of gravity or magnetism, but we do. What is that force? Whatever you call it, it exists. I have watched Rob Skiba videos and couldn’t find any logic in his reasoning or his methods of proving flat Earth. By far the most prolific and popular advocate of flat Earth is Eric Dubay and I found his videos senseless and childish. There are many different interpretations of the Bible. Unless one is fluent in ancient Hebrew and ancient Greek all are prone to misinterpretation. The Bible mentions unicorns several times. But to think it always refers to the mythical creature in drawings created out of someone’s imagination is doing a disservice to the scriptures. It is well known that the word unicorn was used in place of animals the translators were unfamiliar with and had no word for, such as the aurochs. And rhinocerous’ were called unicorns, I believe in Latin. But the typical artist rendering of unicorns is an image from someone’s head and not what the bible was referring to. Just a few after thoughts.
I listened to the video and I agree with him on almost every point with exception of the horizon. It could have been me being interviewed except for that. I was open when I first heard of flat Earth and I wanted to believe it. I know a little about aviation navigation as I was in the US mitary as an air traffic controller. Aviation is mostly going from point to point via navigational aids. They do not get into terrestrial and celestial navigation near as much as Mariners who depend upon it. I’ve included a photo of a ship behind the horizon and think you will agree that no telephoto lens could possibly bring that ship back into view. I have seen that many times even more pronounced. I have found that unless you are out to see on very clear, calm days you may never see the curvature the way Mariners do. We sometimes have very large mounted binoculars that are probably 50X magnification and the ships will no way come back into vision. We calculate the distance to the horizon with a simple formula which you can easily verify by looking at ships and comparing with radar. The horizon gets further away the higher your point of view. Understand, that cannot possibly happen on a flat surface. The horizon is surprisingly close. Even from a very high pilot house the horizon is not even fifteen miles away. Beyond that measurement you will see no more surface water. It is a clear, distinct line that you can easily see with 8X binoculars. When using celestial navigation we use spherical trigonometry that cannot possibly work on a flat surface but works perfectly even on a desk top globe. The entire maritime industry worldwide is based on a sphere and even ancient Mariners knew it was a sphere. From a navigating Mariners point of view based on observation and experience flat Earth is impossible. No other profession is as familiar with the surface of earth as ocean navigators. It is essential that we know the shape of earth. We would never get to where we were intending to go. I don’t know how to make it any clearer. The only way you would see an horizon on a flat surface is if your eye level we’re right at the surface, and even then it would be indistinct. I can look out from a pilot house maybe eighty feet in height and see a very clear line where even the ripples in the water are seen and nothing beyond that point but sky. If there were another ship beyond that distance, depending on how far out he is, part or even all of that ship would be hidden by the horizon, giant cargo ships and oil tankers with only the top of their masts visible. It surprised even me when I first started going to sea. I am a Christian and my faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior is unshakeable, I know that NASA is a scam and nothing but lies. I do not believe man has ever set foot on the moon, but brother, I know that the oceans surface has curvature. I have seen it, measured it, and relied on it. The man that taught celestial navigation to me was a devout Christian and at that time I was not. He taught celestial navigation at Annapolis US Naval Academy. He was thoroughly familiar with spherical trigonometry and could do some of the calculations in his head. He was also a Christian fundamentalist that believed every word of scripture. He even tried to convince me that evolution was a crock, but I was young and thought I was the smartest guy in the world. You may not believe any of this and that’s OK. In the scope of things the shape of earth is just not that important. I have noticed that it is not the globe earth Christian’s that get upset so much as the globe earth atheists and flat Earth Christian’s. There are a lot of Christian researchers and teachers I listen to that are aware of the things happening that most Christian’s are not. They don’t much like talking about flat Earth because they believe in globe earth and don’t want Christian’s divided. I agree with them. It did bother me until I decided it was useless telling people what I know and have seen.
Thanks so much for replying. In the long run it is faith in the life and words of Jesus Christ that is important. I don’t think he will hold anyone accountable for being wrong about something like that if your heart is right. Take care and God bless you.
I am a conspiracy theorist but think of myself more as a conspiracy analyst, as it is very clear that conspiracies exist in the highest ranks of society among the most powerful people on earth.
When I first heard about the flat Earth community I was interested in what they had to say. I am a Mariner and navigator and have been for many years. I have used manual celestial navigation methods to navigate the globe more than once. I have seen the largest motor driven vessels ever built disappear behind the the horizon completely until only the mast was visible, and then the mast would also disappear. So it was going to take a lot of explanation to convince me of flat Earth. I watched many videos actually hopeful that they would show me the error of my thinking. What I have seen of flat Earth videos by the most prolific sources, demonstrated either a intentional misrepresentations of reality or misunderstanding of common facts.
When commenting on the videos I would sometimes enter into conversations with other viewers that believed in flat Earth but never received answers from the makers of the videos. I have to admit that after a few conversations I grew a little angry with some in reaction to the venom and name calling towards non believers. I began by asking simple questions that could not be answered correctly without giving away the impossibility of flat Earth. Why is there a clear, distinct horizon, the distance of which from point of ovservation can be measured quite accurately?How could there even be a formula to measure the distance to that horizon and actually confirm the distance and the horizon with radar? How could an entire maritime industry operate safely and accurately on the notion of spherical earth for hundreds of years using methods of navigation that could not possibly work on a flat surface? Those questions are completely ignored. The mere fact that a clear and distinct horizon can be seen without mistake on any ocean provided visibility is good is proof of curvature as flat surfaces do not have horizons. I am fairly positive that some of the people leading the flat Earth movement are perfectly aware of these facts but are intentionally misleading less knowledgeable and less experienced people for some reason I don’t know if I understand. There are apparently no professional Mariners among the flat Earth community and I would be very surprised to communicate with one. Even the service workers that work on ships, cooks, and stewards are familiar with the very pronounced curvature at sea. The main gurus of flat Earth are not uneducated or stupid and should know very well about an entire industry and branches of government that operate on the basis of spherical earth very accurately and precisely and print Mercator projection navigational charts and other types that represent spherical earth. However they seem to ignore that whole aspect along with all of the others. I have posted many questions and testified to my hundreds of direct observances of curvature and have simply been called a liar. That type of attitude invites anger and ridicule. I am no longer interested in the subject or want to talk to flat earthers as they have fallen back into believing something they are told by what they see as authority figures and not the scriptures. I have had very pleasant, polite and informative discussions with atheist evolutionists. I may even have put a dent in some hard core evolution beliefs, but I’m not sure. But flat earthers are unwilling to listen to anything at all. By the way I believed in evolution for many years because I believed what I was told by scientists I respected and admired. But then I did some in depth research and found that evolution is a belief based on an idea put forth one hundred and fifty years ago with only circumstantial evidence. There is literally more evidence for creation. But, as stated by very prominent evolution scientists, they believe in evolution specifically because they are not going to let the supernatural or religion enter the discussion.
Thanks for your input.
<<I am a conspiracy theorist but think of myself more as a conspiracy analyst, as it is very clear that conspiracies exist in the highest ranks of society among the most powerful people on earth.
Yes, and we really should be afraid of those who rule out conspiracy theories from the get go, as in giving all governments and intelligence agencies in the world a blank card to lie and cheat, because of the premise that "they wouldn't lie to us". Dangerous!
You probably know that Mark Sargent has had multiple guests on his show, including a US air force navigator, air force missile instructor, navy submarine chief, army artillery radar operator, etc. They are convinced flat earthers and the ones that could answer your questions, along with the host. Those guys with the most popular FE video channels answer questions repeatedly from various viewers. I've heard it myself and my impression is that the hosts do what they can to answer the questions even if they will hear the same one over and over again. Questions are certainly not ignored.
I agree with you that it's a shame that a topic cannot be discussed without ad hominem attacks or similar, but that's still a side issue from the topic (FE) since such things can be found on both sides.
I don't understand your information that you've seen boats going over the curve, and I understand even less your idea that there is no horizon in the flat earth model. I've seen multiple videos where a disappearing boat in the horizon can be brought back into focus again through the camera zoom. There is no evidence that they are fake, and it's not even possible to fake things like that. Of course there must be a distinct horizon also in the flat earth model based on the law of perspective. It's always raising to eye level, which it should based on their model.
Neither do I understand your general claim that service workers on ships, cooks, etc are globe earthers. Of course the majority of all people on earth are globers. What can we expect when we have been trained to believe this from childhood. Of course it's possible to perform various tasks on a ship without having to take the shape of the earth into question. To me this makes me think that you haven't paid attention to the FE concept, or the answers to your questions.
You also make the claim that flat earthers just believe something they are told and not the scriptures. Not all flat earthers are Christians (none of them are atheists), but there are loads of people who have been convinced of the flat earth thanks to scriptures as well as the book of Enoch. I think the best way to make people atheists is to make them believe in Darwinism combined with heliocentrism, which reduce both the earth and ourselves into a mere nothingness without the need of a Creator and Lord.
Maybe your general statements about flat earthers, could be one of the reasons that you've faced obstacles.
Here is another good website owned by a friend of mine who is retired from the US navy (flat earther), but his site is about the Bible:
This is not directly related to the flat earth but this upcoming event should give pause to globe earthers who insist on their view of the cosmology because it is observable and demonstrable which is the basis of all scientific observation and inquiry. On Aug 21st just a week away, a solar eclipse will occur in which the shadow of the sun will move from the West Coast to the East Coast of America. This observable event will allow people to track the eclipse as it moves in an easterly direction across the country. This is problematic however for globe earthers as we are (falsely) taught that the earth rotates on its axis in an eastward direction. Given this “fact” how is is possible for the eclipse to travel from West to East? Given the direction of the earth’s rotation, the eclipse should properly move from East to West instead – exactly in the opposite direction. I have not found any satisfactory answer thus far to this apparent contradiction to the Copernican model.
Good point, Evan. I watched some desperate attempts by NASA employees to explain this anomaly but no satisfactory answer was revealed. Something to think about in relation to this (the eclipse), is that shadows can have the same size or be larger than the object causing the shadow, but the shadow can never be smaller than the object. This could give a clue how large the moon might be, when studying the shadow on earth …. There are many interesting youtube films about it, atm.