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List of Bible verses that show a flat earth with a firmament

Bible verses showing that the earth is flat and immovable

”Yea, hath God said — ?” (Gen. 3:1)

If we are to be really honest with ourselves, the Bible is a geocentric flat earth book and there is no question about it. If we also add the book of Enoch, the matter is completely settled. This is not proof that the earth is flat, but it is evidence that the Bible teaches it. Let this not be a matter of salvation. It is not a sin to believe that the earth is in the center of God’s creation and that it is immovable, standing on four pillars, has four corners, is likened to a footstool, has a firmament above it containing the stars, the sun and the moon, etc.

footstool

A footstool under God’s feet or a constantly moving BALL?

Some of the verses below are poetic in nature but this does not mean that we can just pretend that they do not hold any type of message to us and are meaningless. They might express the reality in a figurative sense. In the Bible we will find poetry, visions, dreams, parables, analogies, figurative speech, prophesies, psalms, hyperboles, etc, and naturally we must read the text with this in mind. Still, an author would like to express something with this type of text usage and that is often to mirror the reality. It is also important that we do not pick and choose by for example viewing certain verses in the book of Psalms literally when it is suits our own agenda (for example ”in sin did my mother conceive me” by king David in Ps. 51:7), but dismissing other verses in the same book by suggesting ”it’s only poetry so it doesn’t mean anything!” when the message does not fit the same agenda.

For instance, the Bible says that the earth is like a footstool to God, so this is an analogy for us to consider. Do we picture God sitting with a constantly moving and rotating ball under his feet, or do we picture him with his feet on something that really looks like a FOOTSTOOL, like the one in the above picture? A footstool looks like an exact copy of the flat earth model. A footstool is also interesting in the way that it is actually not even needed. A chair (or in God’s case a throne) is higher in importance than a footstool, and it is not even certain that a person in the chair will bother putting up his feet on a footstool. To use a footstool as a picture of the earth is not to show God as an arrogant Majesty who looks down on us with disdain, but to give us some perspective between the Creator and his creation. Compare with his speech to Job, where God’s mighty power is highlighted and his message that Job and his friends were hardly equipped to give the Creator neither advice nor criticism.

Apart from the list below, Christian flat earthers believe that one of the very best argument for a geocentric world picture is the total absence of Bible verses which say something to the effect that the earth is shaped as a ball, constantly moving/rotating, speeding around the sun, is placed in a vast universe with stars and galaxies several trillion miles away, etc.

Many creationists say that it would have been so easy for God to say that a ”day” (Hebrew yom) in the creation account means something else than what we consider a day (but that a day can last millions of years), but God never says this. This is likely due to the fact that a day was, and still is, a normal 24 hour day or else God would have clarified this for us. Similarly, flat earthers believe that if God wanted to reveal a heliocentric model for us, he could easily have explained this to avoid a misunderstanding, but he never does. We are told the exact opposite. Therefore we should have respect for those Christians who believe in the geocentric model, because they are convinced that they get this model straight from the Bible.

BIBLE VERSES (KJV) in chronological order (i. e. Bible order)

1)

Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.—5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.—14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Comment: Based on the Bible’s creation account, we learn that the earth was created before the sun, there was a firmament with water both under it and over it, the sun, moon and the stars were placed IN the firmament (not above) and their purpose was to give light from the perspective of the earth. They were also created to be signs for seasons, days, and years (which for example sun och moon eclipses can offer). Interestingly, when we zoom in on stars through a telescope, they appear as though they are behind a layer of water. The sun and the moon are presented as though they both give light (with no indication that one of them only reflects the other ones light). The greater light was to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night.

2)

Gen.7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen. 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained

Comment: Naturally we are not to assume that real windows were in heaven, but something was opened up in heaven and an enormous amount of rain fell on earth. Normally it does not rain for that long, so where did all the water from above come from? It could be explained by openings in the firmament.

3)

Gen. 11:4 They said, “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” 5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.6 The Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.

Comment: A story which would be impossible on a globe but more feasible on a flat earth model with a firmament as the maximum limit, and especially if there were giants around like Goliath who could participate in the construction. Still, to be able to build a tower up to an altitude near a firmament (they did not reach all the way) would mean that the tower would have reached an altitude where eventually moving and even breathing would be hard. God prevented them from building any further, but it seems like he was of the view that they would have succeeded to reach far enough had they continued: nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them”. About the tower of Babel here (Swedish). 

4) 

earth

The paths cause seasons by moving closer to the center and back again

Joshua 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the Lord cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So THE SUN stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.

Comment: The author could easily have said that the earth stood still if that was the case, but it says that the sun and the moon stood still, and that the sun took action by delaying going down (the sun goes down both in the globe model and the flat earth model). If the earth had to make a halt and stopped its rotating and its path across the sun, people on earth would have died. Joshua seemed to have viewed the sun and the moon as a couple that needed to slow down together in order for the project to work. According to the book of Enoch, the moon moves slightly slower than the sun, and it is interesting that the text in Joshua confirms it by two different verbs ”the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, as though the sun indeed made a complete halt while the moon almost did the same thing by slowing down considerably. The rocks thrown by God seem to confirm that his throne is placed rather close right above the vault since the rocks were thrown with such a precision. Had God’s throne been placed billions of light years away out in the universe, the rocks would fall all over the place and not in a certain valley on earth. God is almighty and can perform any miracle he likes? Absolutely, but looking at it that way, God does not need any rocks in the first place but can kill whoever he wants whenever he wants. (The book of Jasher is referred to 2 times in the Bible so it cannot easily be brushed off.)

5)

Judges 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.

Comment: Stars are viewed as living beings.

6)

1 Sam. 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and HE HATH SET THE WORLD UPON THEM.  

Comment: The oft mentioned pillars are placed as support for the world since the world is placed ON these pillars. Since the earth is elsewhere described as having four corners, it makes sense to place one pillar in each corner. Together with a vault, the outcome looks like a FOOTSTOOL

7)

2 Sam. 22:8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. — 16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Comment: The earth is often described as standing still which is the normality, but king David describes God’s wrath in such a way that the foundations of heaven will move and shake. This sounds like something out of the ordinary, but if the  normality is that the earth always moves and shakes due to the earth’s rotation and high-speed, what would be the difference?

8)

1 Chron. 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. 

Comment: The ideal situation seems to be a stable world that is not moved. In the heliocentric model, the world (and/or the earth) is constantly moving without stop.

9)

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. 8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

Comment: The ordinary scenario for the earth is to stand still (in the flat earth model), but here we can read the description of God’s power that can shake the earth ”out of her place”, and the pillars under it might tremble. If the earth would normally be rotating and travelling faster than a bullet around the sun, it would be illogical to suggest that the pillars under it can tremble and that the earth might be shaken out of its place. We can also read about commanding the sun to not rise, indicating that it is the sun that moves in such a way that it rises (instead of the earth’s movement). Sealing up the stars, might be a description how they are sealed into the firmament.

10)

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven. (”the vault of heaven” – ASV)

Comment: God’s position is just above the vault and since the clouds are right under it, they might also ”cover” him.

11)

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.12 He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud. 

Comment: ”Stretching out the north”, might refer to the whole construction of the pole star in the north and the stretched out firmament surrounding it. ”Hanging the earth upon nothing”? Is this a good description of an earth standing steady on pillars? Well, it is at least a closer description of a flat earth model rather than a globe model with an earth which constantly both rotates and travels at a high-speed around the sun. If you hang something up, like a picture on the wall, you expect it to remain still where it is hanged. You do not expect it to move around on the wall. A flat earth model, shaped as a footstool, could still be described as ”hanging on nothing”. The waters (like the oceans) are apparently compassed with bounds, and this might be a reference to Antarctica which is the outer ring on a flat earth model. The pillars of heaven tremble, which might be a reference to the pillars in each corner of the earth which are also connected to the firmament.

12)

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Comment: Apparently the earth has ends, which works well on the flat earth model, but not on the globe model. God can see under the whole heaven, and that is true whether the earth is flat or a globe. If someone is high enough he can also see the whole earth (everything) under him, which could very well be the point that is being made here – in order to describe God’s majesty.

13)

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth. — 18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Comment: The earth has ”ends”, and in the Bible the sky can also be translated ”expanse” as in YLT, where instead of ”molten looking-glass” we can read ”a hard mirror”. It is translated ”a cast metal mirror” in NKJV. This could be referred to the firmament of the sky, which apparently is strong and more or less solid. You can read more about a solid firmament here.

14)

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Comment: A fastened foundation and a corner-stone work better as descriptions for a flat earth model, and especially if it is possible to stretch out a line over it. It is harder to stretch out a line on a ball. The stars are again described as living beings, just as much as the sons of God (angels) are, since they can sing. The sea (the oceans) are  described as being shut up with doors (bars and doors). Naturally not real doors, but it could be a description of Antarctica. Especially since we can read this statement: Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed”. A comparison is made with the womb, which has its outer bounds as well. It is not a big deal that boats and waves are restricted by large and small land masses (both continents and little islands), but we are reading here about an outer bound which is the maximum outer limit. 

15)

JobJob 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;13 That it might take hold of the ends of the EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?14 It is turned AS A CLAY TO THE SEAL; and they stand as a garment. — 18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, 20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

Comment: Again, we can read about the ends of the earth. We also get the picture of God being able to hold the ends of the earth and shake the wicked out of it. This is easy to imagine if a blanket or a sheet are used, and they have four corners. Like in this verse ”Acts 10: 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth” + Acts 11:5. Turning the earth ”as a clay to seal”, is difficult to imagine on a ball, but works well on a flat surface. In fact, if we do make a seal out of clay, it will turn out like the above which is a good picture of the flat earth model with an outer bound. 

16)

Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

17)

Psalm 19: 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man TO RUN A RACE.  
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his CIRCUIT unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Comment: If the firmament is nothing more than air or space, it is hard to see why precisely this air would be a glorious example of God’s handiwork. If, however, the firmament is something solid, bright and stretched out over the entire earth then it is easier to understand why this object is used as an example of God’s magnificent creation. We can read about the end of the world, and (just like in the book of Enoch) we can see that the sun has a tabernacle and likened to a bridegroom. This sun runs a race by going forth from the end of heaven and his circuit (a circle) unto the ends of it. This means that it is the sun that does the job around the earth, and not the earth travelling around the sun.

18)

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Comment: The inhabitants of the earth are real, so it is likely that the pillars are real as well.

19)

Psalm 78:23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven

Comment: Windows and doors are viewed as something that can be opened up – and maybe also the firmament is solid and able to have openings which God might choose to open up.

sheet20)

Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Comment: The oft mentioned phrase ”cannot be moved” does not work well on a heliocentric model where the globe rotates around its axis about 1675 km/h (approx. 1,000 miles/h) with an orbital velocity around the sun of about 28,000 km/hour. A suitable quote: ”For every second you’re moving almost half a kilometer through space and you don’t even feel it”. With other words; the earth in the heliocentric model is constantly moving and is the opposite of immovable.

21)

Psalm 96:10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it SHALL NOT BE MOVED: he shall judge the people righteously.  

Comment: It shall not be moved. This is often repeated, as though it is important information.

22)

Psalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Comment: If ”heaven” is nothing more than air or space, it is not a good example of impressing things that God can create with his hands.

23)

sun beamPsalm 104:1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:3 Who layeth the BEAMS of his chambers in the WATERS: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth. (NASB: 2:— Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain.)

Comment: A curtain that is stretched out around a ball does not even sound like a curtain.  On a flat earth model, however, the analogy works perfectly. We can read about beams of his chambers in the waters. (If you check the picture above, where does the sun seem to be? Right behind that cloud, producing a beam in the water all the way to the watcher, or billions of light years away?). God apparently laid the foundation of the earth with the aim that it should not be removed for ever. V. 5-9 seems to describe the creation and the division between land and water. We can again read about a boundary for the oceans which could be a reference to Antarctica. ”Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth”. It sounds like the waters were once above the whole earth, including the mountains, since we can read that the bound is there to not again make them cover the earth. 

24)

Psalm 136:6 To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.7 To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Comment: Water finds its level, and it cannot bend around a ball. In the beginning God stretched out the earth (the land masses) above the waters. The sun rules by the day, and the moon and stars at night. This is confirmation of the description in Gen. 1 that these heavenly objects are created for the sake of the earth, and to perform their duties from the perspective of the earth. In the heliocentric model the earth is far away from the center and the earth plays no role for the objects in the universe.

25)

Psalm 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

Comment: Stars are not dead objects, but they are alive and have names.

26)

Psalm 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

Comment: When this psalm was written (long after the flood), it appears that waters were still above the heavens.

27)

Prov. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compassupon the face of the depth(ESV —When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.)

Comment: If the heaven is nothing more than air or space, it would not be much to ”prepare”. Drawing a circle on a ball sounds weird, but drawing a circle on a flat surface is easier to imagine.

28)

flat earthEccl. 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to HIS PLACE where HE AROSE.

Comment: The sun is the one that performs the job of ”going down” and ”arising”, rather than the earth. The sun (called HE) returns back to the same place as he came from. This description does not fit a globe model.

29)

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Comment: If the earth has four corners and also has ends, it is a good guess that the pillars under it are four in number.

30)

Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. — 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Comment: In the end of days things will change dramatically. Among other things, the moon shall no longer call her (a she) light to shine. The moon has its own light. The heavens will shake and the earth shall be removed out of her place. In a heliocentric model, this happens every day.

31)

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun RETURNED ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Comment: This does not work on a globe model. We can read that it was the sun that returned ten degrees. If the earth would have halted to go backwards, people on earth would have died. A sun halting or going backwards a few degrees would not be harmful in a flat earth model.

32)

tentIsaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Comment: ”Circle” in the above verse is a translation from the Hebrew noun chug (Strong’s 2329) which means circle, vault or horizon.(Note that it is not translated as ball or sphere.) Apart from the above verse, it is found twice more in the Bible. In Job 22:14 we can read about God walking on the circle/vault of heaven (walking on the firmament of heaven), and in Proverbs 8:27 we can read that this circle was inscribed into the face of the deep. NKJV phrases it as ”When He drew a circle on the face of the deep”. It is hard (or rather impossible) to draw a sphere or a globe into something, but it is definitely possible to draw/inscribe a circle into something. While chug is not a translation for ball, there is however a word for ”ball” that Isaiah could have used if this is what he wanted to express, but he did not use it in the above verse. He did, however, use it in Is. 22:18 where ball is a translation from dur (Strong’s 1754). An analogy is used of the heavens stretched out as a curtain and spread out as a TENT to dwell in – for the inhabitants who look like grasshoppers. It is almost impossible to imagine the picture of a tent placed on a globe where all the inhabitants live in. It is a perfect analogy if we imagine a flat earth with a firmament over it, and especially if we also imagine the tabernacle during the Exodus. Read more here.

33)

Isaiah 43:6 I’ll say to the north, ‘Give them up’! and to the south, ‘Don’t keep them back!’ Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth

34)

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Comment: If the heaven is nothing more than air or space, it is nothing impressive about spreading this air out, either alone or with some help.

35)

Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

36)

Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Comment: Again, much ado about the spreading out the heavens with one single hand. If the heaven is only air or space, it is not impressive. If we are including the whole firmament/vault however, it is very impressive and even breathtaking.

37)

Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

Comment: Once again the moon is stated to give light, and once again the sun is stated to cause the movements on earth – here going down.

38)

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and THE EARTH IS MY FOOTSTOOL: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Comment: The earth is God’s footstool. Does it really look like a footstool standing firm on four legs, or does it look like a constantly moving ball?

39)

Ez. 1:22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Comment: The firmament looked like crystal and the strange beings, which the text talks about, were right under this firmament. Ezekiel could still both hear them and see them in his vision. Just above the firmament is where Ezekiel could see the throne and someone who looked like a man upon it.

40)

Ez. 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God.

Comment: Again we can read that the moon has its own light. The stars will be dark, but it does not say that they will therefore cease to be stars. We know from Revelations that stars will eventually fall down unto the earth.

 earth 641)

Dan. 4:10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth —20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.

Comment: A tree in the midst of the earth, high enough to reach heaven and visible to the entire earth? Someone might suggest that this is only a dream and we can even read in v. 22 that the tree was king Belteshazzar, but dreams do not have to be illogical just because they are dreams. It would make more sense for a divine dream to be somewhat logical in order to work as a reasonable comparison with the king. Daniel had several other dreams and visions, and while none of them were therefore ”real” they still made perfect sense.

42)

Dan. 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Comment: Stars are cast down to earth and stamped on. Still, life on earth continues. Even if this is only a dream, it is a confirmation of Jesus own words in the New Testament and the prophesies in Revelations.

43)

Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Comment: Air and/or space will tremble? Or the whole construction with the firmament?

44)

Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Comment: The moon is again claimed to have its own light.

45)

Amos 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.

Comment: Stars can apparently be idols, as though they were people.

46)

Amos 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.

Amos 9:6 (NASB)The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth—

Comment: ”The face of the earth” could signify a certain side up. A troop or a vaulted dome over the earth.

47)

Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.

Comment: The earth has boundaries.

48)

Hab. 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Comment: The sun and the moon stood still. Can we choose to not believe it because it does not fit a certain model?

49)

Matt. 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Comment: Why the need to take Jesus up to a high mountain, if he would not be able to see more than a small region anyway? In the flat earth model, if he would be taken close to the firmament, he would be able to see the entire earth.

50)

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:—31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.  

Comment: Stars will fall on earth, and life will still continue. Every one shall see the son in the clouds, which is easier if the earth was flat. The elect will be collected from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Seems like the heaven starts and ends at certain places.

perspective51

1 Cor.15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Comment: Again it is hinted that the moon has its own light.

52)

Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; WANDERING STARS, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever 

Comment: See more here about wandering stars. Planets are not mentioned in the Bible, but stars are mentioned – including wandering stars like Venus.

53)

Rev. 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.—20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 54)

Rev. 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Comment: The stars of heaven will fall on the earth, but the life on earth continues on also after this moment. The process is compared with figs being shaken off a fig tree, and figs land under the tree on a flat surface.

55)

Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Comment: This is part of a prophesy, and since prophesies are real future events it makes sense to believe there will in fact be four angels on a mission which includes standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds. It is true that it is hard to take hold of a wind but we are not told exactly how these winds are being held. Real angels can accomplish real things which human beings cannot do.

56)

Rev. 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. 

Comment: People survived despite of this star landing on earth, and the water did not burn up because of it but became bitter.

57)

Rev. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Comment: A star fell unto the heaven, and apparently the bottomless pit (which some believe to be in Antarctica) remained intact without burning up.

58)

Rev. 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Comment. A third part of the stars of heaven were cast to earth, but life continued on earth also after this moment.

59)

Rev. 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.9 And they went up on the BREADTH of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Comment: ”The nations at the four corners of the earth” could be a way to express ”all nations”,  but this does not exclude the possibility that it is also literally true that the nations are within four corners of the earth – especially if we also add the information that there will be four angels standing at these corners holding the winds of the earth. The word ”breadth” above describes the surface of the earth, and not parts of the earth. The word is a translation from the noun πλάτος/platos (Strong’s 4114) and can be translated as width or broad plain. The corresponding adjective is πλατύς/platus (Strong’s 4116) which can be used as a description of a street as in Matt. 7:13 (flat and stretched out). The corresponding verb is πλάσσω/plassó (Strong’s 4111), which can be translated as form/mould. The French word ”plateau” signifies a level portion (or nearly level) of the earth’s surface. The French word derives from platel, which is a description of a flat object, like a plateIn Swedish the word for”flat” is ”platt” (similar in other Germanic languages).

***

There are about 35 verses each that mention the end/ends of the earth, as well as the ”face” of the earth. Naturally it is impossible to find any ”ends” on a ball, and it is just as impossible to figure out which side of a ball that is considered ”the face” (a front of something)Needless to say that the existence of ends and a face of the earth work perfectly on a flat earth model.

I can also recommend reading the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher (both referred to in the Bible) and always compare everything with the Bible.

Satan would like to hide God’s creation from us (in order to hide God), and he is pleased with the teaching of Evolution in combination with billions of years in a heliocentric model – which minimize God and our significance in his creation:

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Rom. 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Fake moon landing: A funny thing happened on the way to the moon

If you want to learn more WHY people believe in a flat earth from their own sources:  Mark Sargent’s Flat earth clues. Eric Dubay’s 200 reasons the earth is not a spinning ball. The youtube channel My perspective.

(Note, that I do not necessarily agree with all statements in the links I recommend here or elsewhere on my Blog.)

Biblical examples of POLYGAMY – a marriage form not supported by God

ringarThe Bible – contains advice concerning the marriage between a man and a woman 

Biblical examples of polygamy further down below 

When it comes to the question of marriage and the relationship between a man and his wife, the Bible contains plenty of good advice from the apostle Paul and from Proverbs, but never about other marriage constellations (same-sex marriages or polygamy). This naturally suggests that other variations are not according to God’s plans.

Unfortunately God’s view of an ideal marriage is attacked by some people (there is even a name for them – liberals), and there are also people who try to find support for polygamy from the Bible. Nevertheless, the Bible explains on the first few pages that a marriage is a union between one man and one woman – for generations. No other variations are listed. The marriage union is intended to be:

  1. between a man and a woman
  2. between two individuals (who become one flesh with each other)
  3. unbreakable

Such a natural union is also ideal for the children who would then be born into a stable household, and each new generation would grow up with a mother and a father as role models. Men and women have different abilities and characteristics depending on their gender, and children benefit from both.

Gen. 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Prior to the time of Moses, marriages between cousins and siblings were legitimate (even if they might be rare), but then again Adam and Eve were created ”very good”, and had no deficient genes which might cause any defects in their children. Such risks did not arrive until much later due to gene pool bottlenecks.

If God would have accepted same-sex marriages, we would be able to find support for this somewhere in his word. Not only are there no such examples but we can find many warnings against this type of unnatural life style. If we choose to live against God’s intended purpose and creation order, we are also choosing to live a risky life style which could even lead to depression and an early death. In his great love, God wants something much better for us. If all people would adhere to God’s advice about this, there would be no room for any venereal diseases.

Rom. 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (NKJV)

Lev. 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

If something is an abomination in the old testament, it could not possibly be acceptable and right in the new testament.

LIST OF COMMONLY USED EXAMPLES OF POLYGAMY giftermål

Even if the ideal marriage union is between two persons, there are Biblical examples of men (never women) who have deviated from this rule and who have lived in a polygamous marriage with more than one woman. It is noteworthy that none of those marriages have been peaceful or successful.

God is not a fan of either polygamy or divorce but due to man’s own will and the hardness of the heart, God provides rules for the sake of the weaker part – the woman. During the time of the old testament there was no safety net for women apart from belonging to a household which could provide for her (and her children). A single woman who is neither a virgin or a widow would have great difficulties achieving a good standard of living with no protective laws giving her certain rights. As soon as people deviate from God’s intention, problems arise for one or more parties. In such cases one could only do the best of the situation. 

The first person we can read about living in a polygamous marriage is Lemech (Gen. 4:19) who was not a godly man. The book of Jasher provides more information about him and his wives, and discloses that he initially used only one wife for child-bearing.

Sometimes the reason for a polygamous marriage is not disclosed, but whenever it is disclosed among the godly men of the Bible, we can see that the reasons seem to be due to having been persuaded by a barren wife to have children with a handmaid, or possibly due to having been tricked into marrying more than one wife. These are not the reasons you would hear from Christian polygamy supporters today. They provide totally different reasons – none of them Biblical.

They might suggest that God accept polygamous marriages since there are plenty of Biblical examples of them, but they are almost always in relation to ungodly men. Yes, there are a few cases when it comes to godly men, but if you see the details in the list below it is evident that these cases still cannot be used as support. I do not list individuals who had multiple wives and who were never considered righteous in the first place, such as Jeroboam, Ahab, Jehoiakim, Jehoiachin, Esau, etc.

Concubines in the Bible among godly men: The practice of taking concubines as ”wives” was used to provide a male heir for a barren wife (Gen. 16, 35, 36), but concubines did not have the same status as wives. The sons of some concubines were treated as co-heirs with the sons of wives. Multiplying children through concubines would also increase the available family workforce and the family wealth and power. The practice of having concubines was NOT to meet the sexual desires of the males. The practice could even provide a social safety net for poor families who could sell their daughters in dire times ( Exod 21:7-10; Judges 19:1).

The list consists of the most commonly used Biblical examples when it comes to the attempt to support polygamy today.

1) Abraham 

Abraham allowed himself to be persuaded by his wife Sarah to go to bed with her maid Hagar in order to obtain a child with her. The reason for this was that Sarah herself was barren and likely eager to be pregnant with a son as per God’s promise. Perhaps Abraham was easily persuaded because he too was eager to see the divine promise fulfilled. Hagar did indeed become pregnant and gave birth to Ishmael. Even though a son was now born to Abraham and Sarah, it was still not the son of the promise. God had promised that Sarah would be giving birth to a son – and never suggested that she would make her own arrangements through another woman to see this promise fulfilled. Their second son Isaac was born by Sarah and he was the son of the promise. There have been many contentions between the  descendants of Isaac and Ishmael (even today).

Abraham also had a wife/concubine after Sarah’s death – Keturah, and Keturah and Hagar are likely the two concubines referred to in Gen. 25:6 (unless one would like to make a case about Abraham’s vague mentioning of Eliezer of Damascus which requires a blog post in itself and still would not prove yet another concubine).

Gen. 16:1 Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. — 4. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.

Gen. 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

Gen. 15:2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

1 Chron. 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

Jasher 16:29 And when Hagar saw that she had conceived she rejoiced greatly, and her mistress was despised in her eyes, and she said within herself, This can only be that I am better before God than Sarai my mistress, for all the days that my mistress has been with my lord, she did not conceive, but me the Lord has caused in so short a time to conceive by him.30 And when Sarai saw that Hagar had conceived by Abram, Sarai was jealous of her handmaid, and Sarai said within herself, This is surely nothing else but that she must be better than I am.31 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee, for at the time when thou didst pray before the Lord for children why didst thou not pray on my account, that the Lord should give me seed from thee?32 And when I speak to Hagar in thy presence, she despiseth my words, because she has conceived, and thou wilt say nothing to her; may the Lord judge between me and thee for what thou hast done to me.33 And Abram said to Sarai, Behold thy handmaid is in thy hand, do unto her as it may seem good in thy eyes; and Sarai afflicted her, and Hagar fled from her to the wilderness.

2) Jacob

Jacob was tricked by his uncle Laban to marry an extra wife – Laban’s oldest daughter Leah. Jacob himself had preferred to be married to his love Rachel alone, who was Laban’s younger daughter and was promised to Jacob. Even though Jacob was innocent, he could not make what happened undone, and with a promise to also get married to Rachel he accepted his fate of being the husband of two wives. This polygamous marriage of course produced problems when the sisters were jealous of each other, and due to being barren each of them managed to persuade Jacob two have children with their maids. Bilhah and Zilpah became Jacob’s wives as well and their offspring became his heirs.

Laban was actually a polygamist as well, but since this information is not from the Bible (but from the book of Jasher) I do not include him on my list. It might very well be true, but then again it cannot be used as support for a Christian polygamy since he was hardly a righteous man at all times. Since Jacob was tricked into marrying an extra wife, and since it was his wives who suggested additional wives due to the reason of being barren, this case cannot be used by polygamy supporters today.

Gen. 29:21 And Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for my days are fulfilled, that I may go in unto her. 22 And Laban gathered together all the men of the place, and made a feast.23 And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her.24 And Laban gave unto his daughter Leah Zilpah his maid for an handmaid.25 And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it was Leah: and he said to Laban, What is this thou hast done unto me? did not I serve with thee for Rachel? wherefore then hast thou beguiled me?26 And Laban said, It must not be so done in our country, to give the younger before the firstborn.27 Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.28 And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.29 And Laban gave to Rachel his daughter Bilhah his handmaid to be her maid.30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.31 And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.32 And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the Lord hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.33 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Because the Lord hath heard I was hated, he hath therefore given me this son also: and she called his name Simeon.

Gen. 30:1 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.2 And Jacob’s anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God’s stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?3 And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.4 And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.5 And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.6 And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.

Jasher 30:13 And Laban had no sons but only daughters, and his other wives and handmaids were still barren in those days; and these are the names of Laban’s daughters which his wife Adinah had borne unto him; the name of the elder was Leah and the name of the younger was Rachel; and Leah was tender-eyed, but Rachel was beautiful and well favored, and Jacob loved her. — 18 And in the fourth year of Jacob’s residence in the house of Laban, the Lord visited Laban and remembered him on account of Jacob, and sons were born unto him, and his first born was Beor, his second was Alib, and the third was Chorash. 19 And the Lord gave Laban riches and honor, sons and daughters, and the man increased greatly on account of Jacob.

Jasher 31:1 And in the seventh year, Jacob’s service which he served Laban was completed, and Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for the days of my service are fulfilled; and Laban did so, and Laban and Jacob assembled all the people of that place and they made a feast.2 And in the evening Laban came to the house, and afterward Jacob came there with the people of the feast, and Laban extinguished all the lights that were there in the house.3 And Jacob said unto Laban, Wherefore dost thou do this thing unto us? and Laban answered, Such is our custom to act in this land.4 And afterward Laban took his daughter Leah, and he brought her to Jacob, and he came to her and Jacob did not know that she was Leah.5 And Laban gave his daughter Leah his maid Zilpah for a handmaid.6 And all the people at the feast knew what Laban had done to Jacob, but they did not tell the thing to Jacob. 7 And all the neighbors came that night to Jacob’s house, and they ate and drank and rejoiced, and played before Leah upon timbrels, and with dances, and they responded before Jacob, Heleah, Heleah.— 10 And in the morning, when daylight appeared, Jacob turned to his wife and he saw, and behold it was Leah that had been lying in his bosom, and Jacob said, Behold now I know what the neighbors said last night, Heleah, they said, and I knew it not. — 12 And Laban answered Jacob, saying, Not so is it done in our place to give the younger before the elder now therefore if thou desirest to take her sister likewise, take her unto thee for the service which thou wilt serve me for another seven years.13 And Jacob did so, and he also took Rachel for a wife, and he served Laban seven years more, and Jacob also came to Rachel, and he loved Rachel more than Leah, and Laban gave her his maid Bilhah for a handmaid. — 17 And when Leah saw that she had left bearing, she also took her handmaid Zilpah, and she gave her to Jacob for a wife, and Jacob also came to Zilpah, and she also bare Jacob two sons, Gad and Asher.

3) King Saul

bible 4Saul only had one wife, but one concubine is also mentioned. According to the story about Saul, God regret making him a king rather early on. Since Saul ended up being a rebellious and unrighteous leader, his case cannot be used as support for polygamous marriages today.

1 Sam. 15:10 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying,11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night.

1 Sam. 16:14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

1 Sam. 18:12 And Saul was afraid of David, because the Lord was with him, and was departed from Saul.

1 Sam. 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

2 Sam. 3:7 And Saul had a concubine, whose name was Rizpah, the daughter of Aiah: and Ishbosheth said to Abner, Wherefore hast thou gone in unto my father’s concubine?

2 Sam. 21:11 And it was told David what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. — 

It is possible that Saul had additional concubines who are not mentioned. Nathan quotes the Lord as saying, “And I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more” (2 Sam. 12:8). Based on this information it seems like David inherited Saul’s wives, and we do not know the reason for this. See more below. David could have done it out of mercy, but also due to his impression that God would make David the king of Israel (and Jerusalem the capital city), which means David needed to be more powerful than his enemies. See more below.

4) King David

Eight of David’s wives are mentioned in the Bible. David started out marrying Saul’s daughter Michal, but later Saul gave her to someone else (1 Sam. 25:42-44). David eventually got her back (2 Sam. 3:13-14), but in the meantime he married two other women (1 Chron. 3:1-3), as well as additional four.

Later in his life he took still more wives and concubines (out of Jerusalem) and it seems like the motivation for those marriages was connected to God making him king of Israel and Jerusalem the capital city. David’s own words just prior to the information about those latest wives David perceived that the Lord had established him king over Israel, and that he had exalted his kingdom for his people Israel’s sake”. David was likely under the impression that he could accomplish God’s goal much easier if he could produce more heirs and also bond with many different families to eliminate enemies. Are these extra wives former concubines of Saul?

Nathan quotes the Lord as saying, “And I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more” (2 Sam. 12:8). Based on this information it seems like David inherited Saul’s wives, and we do not know the reason for this. David could have done it out of mercy, but also due to the reason mentioned above – David thinking bonding with different families would make him powerful enough to withstand his enemies when uniting Israel. This reason is hard to use today as support for polygamy among Christians.

This does not mean that it was God’s idea that David should take many wives, but it certainly seems like God tolerated it. If the extra wives were Saul’s, the damage had already been done.

1 Sam. 18:27 Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king’s son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.28 And Saul saw and knew that the Lord was with David, and that Michal Saul’s daughter loved him.

1 Sam. 25:39 And when David heard that Nabal was dead, he said, Blessed be the Lord, that hath pleaded the cause of my reproach from the hand of Nabal, and hath kept his servant from evil: for the Lord hath returned the wickedness of Nabal upon his own head. And David sent and communed with Abigail, to take her to him to wife. —  43 David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel; and they were also both of them his wives.44 But Saul had given Michal his daughter, David’s wife, to Phalti the son of Laish, which was of Gallim.

2 Samuel 3:1 Now there was long war between the house of Saul and the house of David: but David waxed stronger and stronger, and the house of Saul waxed weaker and weaker.2 And unto David were sons born in Hebron: and his firstborn was Amnon, of Ahinoam the Jezreelitess;3 And his second, Chileab, of Abigail the wife of Nabal the Carmelite; and the third, Absalom the son of Maacah the daughter of Talmai king of Geshur;4 And the fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith; and the fifth, Shephatiah the son of Abital;5 And the sixth, Ithream, by Eglah David’s wife. These were born to David in Hebron.

2 Samuel 5:12 And David perceived that the Lord had established him king over Israel, and that he had exalted his kingdom for his people Israel’s sake.13 And David took him more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.14 And these be the names of those that were born unto him in Jerusalem; Shammuah, and Shobab, and Nathan, and Solomon,15 Ibhar also, and Elishua, and Nepheg, and Japhia,16 And Elishama, and Eliada, and Eliphalet.17 But when the Philistines heard that they had anointed David king over Israel, all the Philistines came up to seek David; and David heard of it, and went down to the hold.

1 Chron. 14:2 And David perceived that the Lord had confirmed him king over Israel, for his kingdom was lifted up on high, because of his people Israel.3 And David took more wives at Jerusalem: and David begat more sons and daughters.

5) Solomo

Salomo had no less than 700 wives and 300 concubines, and it was due to the love of many strange women. Despite God’s commandments to not have relations with strange women, he did so anyway.

1 King 7:8 And his house where he dwelt had another court within the porch, which was of the like work. Solomon made also an house for Pharaoh’s daughter, whom he had taken to wife, like unto this porch.

1 King 9:16 For Pharaoh king of Egypt had gone up, and taken Gezer, and burnt it with fire, and slain the Canaanites that dwelt in the city, and given it for a present unto his daughter, Solomon’s wife.

2 Chron. 8:11 And Solomon brought up the daughter of Pharaoh out of the city of David unto the house that he had built for her: for he said, My wife shall not dwell in the house of David king of Israel, because the places are holy, whereunto the ark of the Lord hath come.

1 King. 11:1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.

6) Gideongideon

Gideon was considered to be a wise and God-fearing man who considered God’s ways being the most important. He was not entirely faithful though, since we can read about a great sin when he made an ephod out of gold which all of Israel used as an idol. Since Gideon clearly was not obedient to the end, neither his case could not be used as support for polygamy among Christians.

Judg. 6:12 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him, and said unto him, The Lord is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

Judg. 8 27 And Gideon made an ephod thereof, and put it in his city, even in Ophrah: and all Israel went thither a whoring after it: which thing became a snare unto Gideon, and to his house — 30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.31 And his concubine that was in Shechem, she also bare him a son, whose name he called Abimelech.

7) Elkanah  

Elkanah is described as a God-fearing man but his choice to have two wives caused trouble in his household – just like all polygamous marriages do. A common problem occurs if one wife gives birth to children and not the other, when various negative feelings will follow. According to this story, it was even God who made Hannah barren, and could this be for a reason? Perhaps it was a way for her to put all her focus on God and to seek his divine plans for her and her son? Did God feel that she deserved to be sad for a while since she had accepted to become a wife to a man who was already married? I am only speculating. Elkanah’s case is not enough to suggest that God is for Christian polygamous marriages.

1 Sam. 1:1 Now there was a certain man of Ramathaimzophim, of mount Ephraim, and his name was Elkanah, the son of Jeroham, the son of Elihu, the son of Tohu, the son of Zuph, an Ephrathite:2 And he had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah: and Peninnah had children, but Hannah had no children.3 And this man went up out of his city yearly to worship and to sacrifice unto the Lord of hosts in Shiloh. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, the priests of the Lord, were there. — 5 But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the Lord had shut up her womb.6 And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the Lord had shut up her womb.7 And as he did so year by year, when she went up to the house of the Lord, so she provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat.

8) Abijah

Abijah had great faith in God and his power, but why were not pagan altars and idols broken down during his own rule? Why did the people have to wait for his son Asa to do this job after his father’s death? Perhaps such altars were even erected in the end of Abijah’s life, like around the time when he started to marry multiple wives. When God is communicating with Jehoram in 2 Chron. 21:12 he (God) mentions Asa and Jehoshaphat as individuals who walked his ways, but he does not mentioned Abijah. 

2 Chron. 13:5 Ought ye not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt? — 21 But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives, and begat twenty and two sons, and sixteen daughters.

2 Chron. 14:1 So Abijah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead. In his days the land was quiet ten years.2 And Asa did that which was good and right in the eyes of the Lord his God:For he took away the altars of the strange gods, and the high places, and brake down the images, and cut down the groves:

9) Rehoboam

Rehoboam’s reason for polygamy was that he desired many wives. He is yet another who forsook the Lord and can therefore not be counted as a righteous believer in a polygamous marriage.

2 Chron. 11:17 So they strengthened the kingdom of Judah, and made Rehoboam the son of Solomon strong, three years: for three years they walked in the way of David and Solomon.

2 Chron. 12:1 And it came to pass, when Rehoboam had established the kingdom, and had strengthened himself, he forsook the law of the Lord, and all Israel with him.

10) Jehoram

Also Jehoram fell away from God, so neither his case could be used as support for Christian polygamy today.

2 Chron. 21:9 Then Jehoram went forth with his princes, and all his chariots with him: and he rose up by night, and smote the Edomites which compassed him in, and the captains of the chariots.10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.11 Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and compelled Judah thereto.12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,13 But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father’s house, which were better than thyself:14 Behold, with a great plague will the Lord smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods:15 And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.16 Moreover the Lord stirred up against Jehoram the spirit of the Philistines, and of the Arabians, that were near the Ethiopians.

11) Joash

It may not have been Joash’s own idea to be a bigamist since we can read that it was his Father Jehoiada who arranged it. We do not know when Joash were provided his wives (and when the marriage was consummated) but Joash officially started to reign when he was 7 years old. He was a righteous man to begin with, but we can also read that he was disobedient to God and fell away serving other gods.

2 Chron. 24:2 And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the Lord all the days of Jehoiada the priest. And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters. — 17 Now after the death of Jehoiada came the princes of Judah, and made obeisance to the king. Then the king hearkened unto them.18 And they left the house of the Lord God of their fathers, and served groves and idols: and wrath came upon Judah and Jerusalem for this their trespass.19 Yet he sent prophets to them, to bring them again unto the Lord; and they testified against them: but they would not give ear

12) Moses?

The Bible does not explicitly state that Moses had another wife apart from Zipporah. She was the daughter of Reuel, the priest of Midian, but this Midian priest and Moses father-in-law apparently changed his name to Jethro later on (Ex. 2)Num. 12:1 mentions a Cushite woman and even if this woman is likely not the same as Zipporah, it is possible that she is Moses second wife after the death of his first wife. Ex. 4:20 mentions only one wife of Moses.

Moses was generally a righteous man, but he did not always obey God. He killed an Egyptian guard (who was assaulting a Hebrew slave) and Ex. 4:24-26 provides another example where Moses contrary to God’s wish did not want to circumcise his son.

Above is the whole list of candidates! Not much to hinge Christian polygamous marriages on.

brudparBible verses which support the marriage between 1 man and 1 woman

Below are some Bible verses which show God’s intended purpose with a marriage union. You will never see any examples of same-sex marriages, and you will never see support for a polygamous marriage:

Prov. 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?21 For the ways of man are before the eyes of the Lord, and he pondereth all his goings.

Prov. 12:4 A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.

Prov. 30:17 The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.18 There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not:19 The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

Prov. 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.

Ps. 128:Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.4 Behold, that thus shall the man be blessed that feareth the Lord.

Below you can see what the law of Moses says about the marriage, as well as the words from Jesus Christ:

Deut. 25:If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband’s brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband’s brother unto her.6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.7 And if the man like not to take his brother’s wife, then let his brother’s wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband’s brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband’s brother.8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her;9 Then shall his brother’s wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother’s house.

Deut. 17:14 When thou art come unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;—-17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

Deut. 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

Matt. 22:24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.27 And last of all the woman died also.28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

Matt. 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matt. 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

Mark. 10:2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Paul provides living instructions for man and woman in a marriage unionchurch9

If Paul would be open for other alternatives than the natural marriage between a man and a woman, he had many chances to say so but he does the contrary – warns against them. Paul says that the man is the head of the woman and that the wife does not have power of her own body but the husband and vice versa, but what if there are even more women in the marriage or what if there is no man at all? Who has the power over which body, and who is the head of the family? Paul does not say, which naturally indicates that there are no such alternatives.   

1 Cor. 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. — 10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?—27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.— 29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;—33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.—39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

Eph. 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;—28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.— 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

Col. 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

God does not produce rules because he hates us, but because he loves us and wants children to grow up in stable homes with a mother and a father.

10 Bible verses /examples commonly used to support the sinful nature – refutation

bebis2Man’s idea to add original sin to the Bible

The idea of original sin, or the sinful nature from birth, was first pushed by Augustine who was a former gnostic. Augustine is guilty of having introduced many unbiblical ideas into church, and  some of them were later also taught by both Luther and Calvin. The old church fathers before Augustine did not teach the sinful nature (see here), and most importantly the Bible does not. Below are some of the most common verses used as an attempt to prove the sinful nature.

Example 1) Romans 5:12

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man SIN entered into the world, and death by sin; and so DEATH passed upon all men, FOR that all have sinned

Comment: Sin entered the world the first time through Adam, because no one had sinned before him (him and Eve). The verse does not say that SIN passed upon all men but DEATH passed upon all men, and it also explains why this is: Because all have sinned! Not because all have inherited sins from Adam. Notice that ”all men” is a translation from the Greek word ἄνθρωπος (anthrópos, Strong’s 444) and could mean 1) men, 2) men and women, or 3) mankind, people, human beings. It may or may not include babies depending on context. Since the verse claims that we die (spiritually) because we have sinned, this verse cannot be used as support for another idea – like the idea that we die spiritually because we have inherited someone else’s sin. Dying physically is something different, and even Jesus Christ died a physical death. It is possible to say that we die physically due to Adam, because we cannot reach the tree of life due to him.

Example 2) Romans 5:18

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation — 19 so by the obedience of one shall MANY be made righteous.

Comment: The entire context is this:

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation; EVEN SO by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man’s disobedience MANY were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall MANY be made righteous.

If ALL are automatically condemned through Adam, then ALL are automatically made righteous through Jesus. Are 100% of all ALL PEOPLE automatically righteous in Jesus? No, that would be universalism. It is not proper hermeneutics to read ”all” in two different ways in the same sentence – an ”even so” indicates a valid comparison. If ALL die in Adam, then the very same ALL are saved in Christ. If ”many” (not all) were made righteous, then ”many” (not all) were made sinners. We cannot make one absolute and the other conditional. If, however, we add conditions on both accounts (we die spiritually if we sin like Adam, and we become alive in Christ if we choose to believe in him) then we have solved all contradictions. Rom. 5 does list conditions, just like the rest of Romans and just like the rest of the Bible.

Example 3) 1 Corinthians 15:22 

1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Comment: If all people are automatically dead in Adam, then the very same ”all people” are automatically saved in Christ. But this interpretation leads to universalism, and we know this is not true. The context makes it clear that the subject is the RESURRECTION and what will happen when Jesus returns. Most importantly what will happen to those in Christ. They will die physically just like Adam (even Jesus Christ once died physically), and they will be made alive to get their judgments and rewards.

Example 4) Ephesians 2:1

Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Comment: What makes us dead? Sinning makes us (spiritually) dead! It is not being born (or being conceived) which makes us dead, but it is transgressing of his law:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Is. 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Eph. 2 does not say that we are BORN dead in trespasses and sins. How can newborn babies choose to transgress the law of God?

The solution to the problem of sin is to repent, which explains why Paul in Acts 17:30 says that God ”now commandeth all men every where to repent”.

Example 5) Ephesians 2:2-3

Eph. 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Comment: Do not get fooled by the term ”children of disobedience” or ”children of wrath” because these terms refer to those who follow Satan – as the text indicates. Likewise the term ”children of God” (or sons of God) does not necessarily refer to little toddlers, but to those who have chosen to believe and follow God. The text certainly does not claim that people are BORN as children of wrath – merely for the ”crime” of existing. It is crystal clear that those spoken about in Eph. 2:2 are adults. They:

  • have a need or reason to be ”quickened”
  • perform TRESPASSES and SINS and through them be dead
  • walk according to the world
  • walk according to Satan (the prince of the power of the air)
  • are disobedient through following Satan
  • walk in the lusts of their flesh
  • fulfill the desires of their flesh
  • fulfill the desires of their mind

Example 6) 1 Corinthians 2:14

1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

Comment: It is a bad idea to be a natural man, which is a man who lives of the world. If someone is a natural man (which is no obligation), he cannot please God. It is impossible for a person to please God if he at the same time chooses to walk in darkness.

”Natural” is a translation from ψυχικός (psuchikos, Strong’s 5591) and could also be translated ”worldly-minded” or ”sensual”. It describes the behavior of a carnal man who lives of the world. The word can be contrasted with ”spiritual” (pneumatikós, Strong’s 4152).

Example 7) Job 25:4 + Job 15:14

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? 5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be CLEAN? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?15 Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.16 How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?

Comment: The first comment is from Bildad, and the second one is from Eliphaz. They did not always provide good advice to Job. On top of this, the book of Job is replete with poetic expressions. See for instance Job 1:21 and see if you read it in a literal sense.

Example 8) Romans 3:10

Rom. 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Comment: Paul, who made the above statement that no one is righteous, called HIMSELF righteous, along with Silas and Timothy (see 1 Thess. 2:10) and he constantly requested that people should avoid obeying their flesh and be righteous. Paul also said (Acts 23:1) that he had lived ”in all good conscience before God until this day”. (NASB: ”perfectly good conscience”). Paul urged his readers to ”sin no more”! Was Paul a hypocrite or a man of God who we can trust?

Paul was in Rom. 3:10 referring to a couple of well-known psalms where we can read ”there is none righteous ….” and if we go to these psalms (Psalm 14 and Psalm 53) we can see the proper context to this phrase. There we can read about unrighteous people, called FOOLS, who do not seek God but we can also read about righteous people who DO seek God. Psalms contain poetic expressions which are mirroring the truth, so we should carefully keep this in mind.

We can read in Acts 17 that we are created precisely to seek God, even though he is not far away from any of us. We can also read verses such as:

Jer. 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart 

Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you

Below are more psalms, and it would be unwise for us to start new doctrines (which are not supported by non-poetic verses) based on such poetry. Poetic expressions can of course teach us things and be encouraging, but it is not always correct to read poetic texts in a literal sense.

Example 9) Psalm 51:5

Ps. 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me  

Comment: This verse is not about all people in the entire world but concerns only David and his mother. It could be understood both figuratively (the way also king David has battled with dark powers and obstacles very early on) or literally (David’s mother was indeed sinning during the conception) but either way, this verse does not say that we have all inherited Adam’s sin and have a sinful nature from birth. David starts out speaking about his own transgression (not sins inherited from another), and we can read claims from David which could not possibly be understood in a literal sense:

Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice…

Example 10) Psalm 58:3

Ps. 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, SPEAKING LIES  

Comment: Naturally newborn babies cannot speak, much less speak lies. This is just a poetic expression to describe that the wicked man go astray very early on and usually continue on this path. The psalmist starts out addressing a ”congregation” and apparently they are old enough to SPEAK since they are asked if they speak righteousness. They are also old enough to JUDGE, they are able to WORK WICKEDNESS in their hearts and WEIGH the violence of their hands. Babies are unable to do any of that, and it is the WICKED who ”are estrange”. If someone goes astray, it means he must have started from a position where it was not ”astray”. In verse 10 and 11 we can read about righteous people who do NOT go astray:

10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. 11So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.

Some people might ask: ”If we are not born with a sinful nature, why do we sin?” Well, why did Adam and Eve sin? Certainly not due to a sinful nature. They might also ask ”If we are not born with a sinful nature, why did Jesus have to die for us?”. Because we have chosen to sin – despite that we did not have to. This is what makes us guilty.

If we are born with a sinful nature (which would provide an excellent excuse for sin), why does the Bible not disclose this important piece of information anywhere? Why can we read the exact opposite story? Moreover, the idea of the sinful nature actually reduces the great deeds that Jesus Christ did for us, when we accuse him of not having to struggle with a sinful nature as the rest of us. In reality, Jesus was tempted in all things just like us and he did not get an advantage.

rom-8The Bible says that babies are innocent

While there are no Bible verses which say we are born with a sinful nature (or born depraved, which is not even a word included in the KJV Bible), the Bible does say that we are wonderfully made.

Zecharia 12:1  The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and FORMETH THE SPIRIT OF MAN WITHIN HIM. 

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet bornNEITHER HAVING DONE ANY GOOD OR EVIL, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God AS A LITTLE CHILD, he shall not enter therein.

Isaiah 7:16 For BEFORE THE CHILD SHALL KNOW TO REFUSE THE EVIL, AND CHOOSE THE GOOD, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. 

Isaiah 42:Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and SPIRIT to them that walk therein

Job. 31:14 What then shall I do when God riseth up? and when he visiteth, what shall I answer him?15 Did not HE THAT MADE ME IN THE WOMB make him? and DID NOT ONE FASHION US IN THE WOMB? 

Ps. 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb.14 I will praise thee; for I AM FEARFULLY AND WONDERFULLY MADE: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Ps,73 Thy hands have made me and FASHIONED ME: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.  

Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that GOD HATH MADE MAN UPRIGHT; but THEY they have sought out many inventions.