Etikettarkiv | fall

Lucifer, the morning star, who is Satan and the devil – Isaiah 14:12

satan”And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven” Luke 10:18

Satan in the New Testament is a translation from the Greek masculine noun Σατανᾶς (Satanas, Strong’s 2567) corresponding to Σατάν (Satan, 4566). He is understood as the accuser, i.e. the devil and an adversary (one who opposes someone in purpose or act). He is the name given to the prince of evil spirits who  encourages people to sin and incites apostasy from God. He is also believed to be in control of his demons (spirits of fallen angels) who can take possession of people and inflict them with diseases. Satan will be overcome on Christ’s return from heaven and bound with chains for a thousand years. When this time has passed he will walk the earth yet again, but will eventually be given over to eternal punishment. According to Blueletterbible Satan is used 27 times in the KJV (Strong’s 7854).

The question is then if Satan is the same as Lucifer, which is an expression found in Is. 14:12 and is a latin translation of the Hebrew word heylel (Strong’s 1966) – used once in the Bible. The expression ”Lucifer, Son of the morning” (KJV) is the translation from heylel ben Shachar (Strong’s 1966, 1121, 7837). The English translation Lucifer derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, which holds the meaning of light-bearer, the shining one, the morning-star, and apart from a good description of Satan (before he fell) it is a close connection to the king of Babylon based on the passage in Isaiah. The unnamed King of Babylon in chapter 14 is condemned in a prophetic vision and is called the ”morning star” (Venus is ”wandering star” visible at dawn). It could be a description of an attempt to usurp kingly power, like the failed regency of Belshazzar. Much like Satan, who did the same thing (see Ezekiel below).

Unlike the English expression, the Latin words were not used exclusively to describe this particular person in Is. 14:12. Jerome’s latin translation in the Vulgate is not in error, and he did not use capital letters in the expression (thus not rendering it a personal name). The Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Old Testament) renders the same expression ἑωσφόρος (heōsphoros) which could be translated ”bringer of dawn”, which is not too far off from Jerome’s result.

If the bringer of light spoken about (lucem ferre) is not Satan, who is he, and why does the description of him sound like the background of Satan? The king of Babylon did not fall from heaven, but he seems to be compared to a shiny bring being falling from heaven.

Is. 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! (how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of THE PIT.16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

”The sons of God” below are angels (see article) and Satan came together with them to approach the Lord God. If Satan is the same as Lucifer, it makes sense that he might have this type of conversation with God. This conversation proves that Satan is a real being, and not an abstract principle such as ”sin”.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord. See also Job 2. 

More examples from the old testament that Satan can be a real person:

1 Chron. 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Ps. 109:6 Let thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

Zech. 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

But the same Hebrew word can also be used as a principle against God or a ”Satanic” (God-hating) being who acts on behalf of Satan:

2 Sa. 19:22 And David said, What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zeruiah, that ye should this day be adversaries unto me? shall there any man be put to death this day in Israel? for do not I know that I am this day king over Israel?

1 Ki. 5:4 But now the LORD my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary nor evil occurrent.

1 Ki. 11:14 And the LORD stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king’s seed in Edom.—23 And God stirred him up another adversary, Rezon the son of Eliadah, which fled from his lord Hadadezer king of Zobah — 25 And he was an adversary to Israel all the days of Solomon, beside the mischief that Hadad did: and he abhorred Israel, and reigned over Syria.

This reminds us of the New Testament idea that there are many antichrists but also a specific person/being called antichrist who will appear in the last time. An antichrist is a deceiver, and the highest form of deception is someone who acts against God – such as objecting to Jesus being the Christ and the Messiah (God in flesh). Satan is against Christ, so he is the antichrist.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

nephilim3

We also have the famous passage in Ez. 28, which is addressed to the prince/king of Tyrus, with a parallel to Satan who had a similar problem with pride and subsequent defeat and disaster. We can read about someone who has a heart which is lifted up (against God) because of his riches, someone claiming to be God, someone who is perfect in beauty, someone who is extraordinary BRIGHT (repeated several times), someone who shall be brought down to the pit, someone who has been in the garden of Eden covered in precious stones, someone who is a cherub (an angel) and created so by God, someone who was on the holy mountain of God, walking on stones of fire, someone who was perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him, someone who is cast to the ground by God due to his sin, someone who has corrupted his wisdom due to his beautiful brightness, etc. Clearly this is not the prince of Tyrus, but a comparison can be made when it comes to pride and corruption – and it is also forming a prophesy.

Ez. 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:—5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee—12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 

The book of the secrets of Enoch (or Slavonic Enoch or 2 Enoch)

The book of Enoch (referred to in the Bible, so of high value) describes the look of the bright angels, and how one angel in particular is thrown out of heaven together with his subordinate angels. The reason for this ordeal is due to this angel’s proud attempt to be equal to God. We can recognize the description from the Bible, where it is describing Satan.

29:2 And from the rock I cut off a great fire, and from the fire I created the orders of the incorporeal ten troops of angels, and their weapons are fiery and their raiment a burning flame, and I commanded that each one should stand in his order.3 And one from out the order of angels, having turned away with the order that was under him, conceived an impossible thought, to place his throne higher than the clouds above the earth, that he might become equal in rank to my power.4 And I threw him out from the height with his angels, and he was flying in the air continuously above the bottomless.

31:4 The devil is the evil spirit of the lower places, as a fugitive he made Sotona from the heavens as his name was Satanail (Satan), thus he became different from the angels, (but his nature) did not change (his) intelligence as far as (his) understanding of righteous and sinful (things).5 And he understood his condemnation and the sin which he had sinned before, therefore he conceived thought against Adam, in such form he entered and seduced Eva (Eve), but did not touch Adam. 

The book of Enoch (or 1 Enoch, or Ethiopian Enoch)

86:1 And again I saw with mine eyes as I slept, Again I looked attentively, while sleeping, and I saw the heaven above, and surveyed heaven above. and behold a star fell from heaven, 2. And behold a single star fell from heaven. and it arose and eat and pastured amongst those oxen.—3 And again I saw in the vision, and looked towards the heaven, and behold I saw many stars descend and cast themselves down from heaven to that first star, and they became bulls amongst those cattle and pastured with them

88:1 And I saw one of those four who had come forth first, and he seized that first star which had fallen from the heaven and bound it hand and foot and cast it into an abyss: now that abyss was narrow and deep, and horrible and dark.

Lucifer is referred to as the morning star, Venus, which is one of the seven wandering stars (and not part of a star constellation). Enoch explains that the future for those independent stars will not be very bright:

1 Enoch 21:1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. 3. And there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. 4. Then I said: ‘For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?’ 5. Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: ‘Enoch, why dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? 6. These are of the number of the stars of heaven, which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.’  

Jude 13:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Origen interpreted such passages as being about manifestations of the devil, and so did  Tertullian. Calvin and Luther, on the other hand, did not – which maybe is not surprising considering the multitudes of new doctrines they have invented.

Jesus is the morning star 

Jesus is also called the morning star, because he is our true permanent bright LIGHT, and he will never lose his brightness the way Satan did. In the new Jerusalem there will not a need for the sun since the lamb (Jesus Christ) will be our light.

The mention of the morning star in the Bible:

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.—7 When the morning stars (boqer Strong’s 1242 + kowkab Strong’s 3556) sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

2 Pet. 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Rev. 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.28 And I will give him the morning star.

Rev. 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Why are both Satan and Jesus Christ both resembling a morning star? Satan seems to have been the brightest of angels before his fall, and he has been chasing the son of God ever since the first pages of the Bible, where we can read about God’s prophesy ”I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel” (Gen. 3:15).

We can also read about the seed in Daniel which seems to be saying that in the last days seeds will be mixed inappropriately just like they were (due to the fallen angels) prior to the flood (described both in the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher, both books mentioned in the Bible) and which caused God to let the whole earth be covered with water. The next time the earth will be affected by fire.

Dan. 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Scientists are already now making advanced experimentations with mixing of seeds/sperms. (If you want to read more about the situation with the disastrous mixing of animals before the flood, you can read more in the previously mentioned books.)

satan-i-kampThe beast in the bottomless pit – who was, is not and yet is

Something else that will happen during the same time is something extraordinary. Someone called Apollyon is presently trapped in the bottomless pit. This place has not yet been discovered during a hike or on the way to work, but some Christians (like Stephen Quayle) believe this pit is situated in Antarctica. Apollyon is believed to have multiple names, and one speculation is Nimrod. (In order to not go down the rabbit hole and make this article too long, I will leave it at that.) Apollyon is described as both a beast and an angel, and also a king and leader of the below described ”locusts”.

Rev. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.— 11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Rev. 11:And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.— 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Satan in the New Testament

We can read about the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience in Eph. 2:2, the devil disputing with Michael about the body of Moses (Jude 1:9) and most importantly the dragon of the Book of Revelation ”who is called the devil and Satan” (Revelation 12:9; 20:2).

Matt. 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Matt. 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Mark 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satancast out Satan? — 26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Matt. 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Mark. 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

Mark 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Luke 12:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

1 Cor. 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Cor. 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

2 Cor. 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

2 Cor. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2 Cor. 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

1 Thess. 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

2 Thess. 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

2 Tim. 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

1 Tim. 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

Rev. 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.—13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.—24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Rev. 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Rev. 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Freemasonry?

The Taxil hoax is named after Léo Taxil (1854–1907) who claimed that the freemason Albert Pike promoted the idea that Lucifer was God and in opposition to the evil god Adonai. Freemasonry Disclosed,  1897:

”With frightening cynicism, the miserable person we shall not name here [Taxil] declared before an assembly especially convened for him that for twelve years he had prepared and carried out to the end the most sacrilegious of hoaxes. We have always been careful to publish special articles concerning Palladism and Diana Vaughan. We are now giving in this issue a complete list of these articles, which can now be considered as not having existed.”

Once saved always saved = the devil’s lie

God told man:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely DIE (Gen. 2:17)

Satan said the opposite:

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall NOT surely die (Ge. 3:4)

So God tells us that if we sin we will DIE, and Satan tells us that if we sin we will NOT DIE.  I fear that many people continue to spread the lies of  Satan even today without even realizing it. ”Once saved always saved”, is such a lie and it has deceived millions (but there are also other false doctrines which Satan is using to deceive people; like the doctrine of the sinful nature and the doctrine of the imputed righteousness of Jesus). It has been a great hindrance to holiness and it’s undermining the fear of God. The teaching goes that once a person is truly a born again believer, then he will remain saved and can never fall away no matter what he does. Proponents of OSAS might immediately protest and say:

1) But true christians wouldn’t WANT to sin any more! They are born again and have new hearts! Now they are led by the spirit. We are not teaching that people who live in sin are saved. If they live in sin, they show that they were not saved to begin with.

but the same people might ALSO say:

2) We can never stop sinning! Also true christians will sin until they die. It’s just that christians don’t sin habitually, but only OCCASIONALLY, and they don’t commit any severe sins. But they are still saved.

The dilemma is obvious. Also true born again christians might choose to sin, but will such a person automatically repent after his sin? Not necessarily. If not even King David repented until about a year after his sins (adultery and murder) in relation to Bathsheba, why would we believe WE are exempted from this peril? If we can avoid sinning for days and weeks, we can also stop sinning for months and years. Each time we sin, we could have chosen not to sin. King David was a person who cannot be filed under ”he wasn’t saved to begin with”  since he was a man of God’s own heart and a true child of God, and yet he fell away due to sin and died spiritually. The Bible is full of warnings to true believers that they might be cut off the vine tree (Jesus) and similar expressions.

We are still warned that sin causes spiritual DEATH

Ezekiel 18:20-24 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he DIE.

Rom 6:21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in DEATH!

Romans 6:16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin UNTO DEATH, or obedience unto righteousness.

1 Pet 2:11 Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your SOUL.

Romans 8: 6For to be carnally minded is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. —13For if ye live after the flesh, YE SHALL DIE: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, YE SHALL LIVE. 

James 5:19Brethren, if any OF YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from DEATH, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son WILL NOT SEE LIFE, but the wrath of God abides on him.

Mark 9:47.And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into HELL

Matt. 7:21 Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1 Peter 4:18 And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, what will become of the godless man and sinner?

The word of Jesus

Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended…which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Luke 8: 13They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 

John 8:31 …IF ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.—34-35 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

John 16:1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

Mat 11:6And blessed is he, whosoever shall NOT be offended in me.

Matt. 24:10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matt 10:32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. —37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matt 26:31Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad32But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. 33Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended. 34Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Security comes through faith and obedience to God’s grace, not disobedience

John 151I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 

1. Jesus is speaking to 11 chosen apostles. Judas had already left, and the remaining 11 were chosen and IN Christ.
2. Jesus specifically says ”you are already clean” to the apostles.
3. Jesus commands them to ABIDE in Him, because they cannot bear fruit unless they do. It’s not certain they will abide.
4. Jesus warns the chosen apostles that if they do not abide in Him, the Father will cut them off, and the branches will be gathered and cast into the fire.
5. The branches will dry up/wither, indicating that they used to have LIFE
6. Jesus says ”IF” you keep my commandments, you ”WILL” ABIDE in my love (conditional)

Other verses

1 Cor. 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in VAIN

1 Cor 3:16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2 Cor 13:5  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Hebr 10: 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Gal. 1:6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are FALLEN FROM GRACE

Philip. 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

1 Thes. 3:8 For now we live, IF ye stand fast in the Lord.

1 Tim. 1:5-6 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling

1 Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

1 Tim. 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee

2 Tim. 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and OVERTHROW THE FAITH OF SOME. There are many, many more scriptures just like these throughout the Bible, due to lack of space I will list them at the end of this study and you may look them up.

Romans 11:20-22 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

James 1:12Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

2 Peter 3:16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

1 John 3:7Little CHILDREN, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 John 1:9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Jude 1:5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou REPENT. 

Rev 3: 10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 

Rev. 3:4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 

Jeremiah 15:6-7 Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting. And I will fanthem with a fan in the gates of the land; I will bereave them of children, I will destroy my people, since they return not from their ways.

Psa. 125:5 Those who turn to crooked ways the LORD will banish with the evildoers.

Hosea 9: 15All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Before their sin in Exodus many Israelites were born again (Dt 32:18, Gal 4:28-29), they were redeemed (Ex 15:13, Dt 21:8), they were sanctified (Ex 31:13, Dt 21:8), they were converted (Ps 19:7), they were in grace (Ex 33:12-17, Ps 19:7, Ps 84:11), had their names in the book of life (Ex 32:32-33, Ps 69:25-29), had the same gospel we have (Gal 3:6-14, Heb 4:2), yet when they sinned the were cut off from God and were lost (Ex 32:32-33, 1 Cor 10:1-18, Heb 4:1-7, Jude 1:5).  (Thanks to Britt Williams)

”It is astonishing how people talk about perseverance. As if the doctrine of perseverance were: ‘Once in grace, always in grace’; or , ‘Once converted, sure to go to heaven.’ This is not the idea of perseverance. The true idea is, that if a man is truly converted, he will, as a rule, continue to obey God; and, as a consequence, he will surely go to heaven. But if a person gets the idea that because he is ‘converted,’ therefore he will assuredly go to heaven, that man will almost assuredly go to hell.” //Charles G. Finney