Arkiv | maj 2012

Gud Fader kallar sin son GUD i Hebreerbrevet 1, eftersom Jesus är GUD

Hebr. 1:8 Men om SONEN säger han: GUD, din tron står i evigheters evighet, och rättens spira är ditt rikes spira (SFB)

Hebr. 1:8 säger han om Sonen: »Gud, DIN TRON förbliver alltid och evinnerligen, och rättvisans spira är ditt rikes spira.9 Du har älskat rättfärdighet och hatat orättfärdighet; därför, O GUD, har din Gud smort dig med glädjens olja mer än dina medbröder»(1917)

Gud adresserar alltså sin son när han säger detta, och han kallar honom GUD! Den grekiska grundtexten medger ett par olika sätt att läsa texten; ”Gud är din tron i evigheternas evighet… ” eller Din tron Gud, står i evigheters evighet…” Om man bestämt sig för att Jesus inte KAN vara Gud så vill man förstås gärna välja det första alternativet och dessutom gärna UTESLUTA det andra pga det störande resultatet. Annars kommer man ju till slutsatsen att Jesus verkligen ÄR Gud och många sektmedlemmar anstränger sig hårt för att undvika allting som osar ”Jesus är Gud”.  Det finns inga anledningar att tro att världens kunniga teologer, som i många fall också är experter på grekiska, har haft fel när de gjort sina översättningar. Det inte särskilt logiskt att säga ”Gud är din tron” för Gud är inte en tron eller ett monument för Jesus, utan hans Fader och kollega i treenigheten. Dessutom så delar de samma tron.

  • Hebr. 1:But unto the Son he saith, THY THRONE, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (KJV)
  • Hebr. 1:8 But of the Son he says,“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever (ESV)
  • Hebr. 1:But of the Son He says,“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever (NASB)
  • Hebr. 1:and unto the Son:`Thy throne, O God, [is] to the age of the age (Young’s Literal)
  • Hebr. 1:8 Mas del Hijo dice: Tu trono, oh Dios, por el siglo del siglo (Reina Valera 1960)
  • Hebr. 1:Mais au sujet du Fils, il dit: Ton trône, ô Dieu, subsiste pour toute éternité (La Bible du Semeur)
  • Hebr. 1:aber von dem Sohn: ”Gott, dein Stuhl währt von Ewigkeit zu Ewigkeit (Luther Bibel 1545)

Hebr. 1:8 är en referens till psalm 45 med nästan samma ordalydelse, och där ser vi att det handlar om GUD:

Psalm 45:6 Skarpa är dina pilar, folk skall falla för dig, konungens fiender skall träffas i hjärtat.GUD (Elohim), DIN TRON står i evigheters evighet, ditt rikes spira är rättens spira.Du älskar rättfärdighet och hatar orättfärdighet. Därför, GUD (Elohim), har DIN GUD Gud (Elohim) smort dig med glädjens oljamer än dina medbröder. (SFB)

Psalmer reflekterar ofta sanningen med poetiska uttryck. Psalm 45 börjar med att adressera en Kung (vilket även Jesus är fast inte på ett jordiskt sätt) och fortsätter med att adressera GUD. Om det handlar om GUD i psalmen så borde samma ordalydelse i Hebr. 1 också handla om GUD, för ordalydelsen är märkbart likadan! Det är inte ovanligt att texter drar paralleller mellan olika personer, städer och länder och Hesekiel 28 är ett bra exempel på detta eftersom en sektion tydligt handlar om Satan, men ändå börjar kapitlet med att adressera Kungen av Tyrus. Hebréerbrevet är alldeles uppenbart adresserat till Jesus så därför kan parallellen dras att Psalm 45 handlar om Jesus som är GUD, och därför är detta en Messiansk psalm. Hela sammanhanget i Hebréerbrevet:

Hebr. 1:1 Sedan Gud (Theos) i forna tider många gånger och på många sätt hade talat till fäderna genom profeterna, har han nu i den sista tiden talat till oss genom sin Son. Honom har han insatt till att ärva allting, och genom honom har han också skapat världen. Sonen utstrålar Guds härlighet och uppenbarar hans väsen och uppehåller allt genom sitt mäktiga ord. Och sedan han utfört en rening från synderna, sitter han nu på Majestätets högra sida i höjden.Sonen är så mycket större än änglarna som det namn han har ärvt är förmer än deras.Till vilken av änglarna har Gud någonsin sagt: Du är min Son, jag har i dag fött dig? Eller: Jag skall vara hans Fader, och han skall vara min Son? Och när han låter den Förstfödde träda in i världen, säger han också: Alla Guds änglar skall tillbe honom.Om änglarna säger han: Han gör sina änglar till vindar och sina tjänare till eldslågor.Men om Sonen säger han: Gud (Theos), din tron står i evigheters evighet, och rättens spira är ditt rikes spira.Du älskar rättfärdighet och hatar orättfärdighet. Därför, Gud (Theos), har din Gud (Theos) smort dig med glädjens olja mer än dina medbröder.10 Och: Du, Herre, har i begynnelsen lagt jordens grund, och himlarna är dina händers verk.11 De skall gå under, men du förblir. De skall alla nötas ut som en klädnad.12 Som en mantel skall du rulla ihop dem, och som en klädnad skall de bytas ut. Men du är densamme, och dina år har inget slut. 13 Till vilken av änglarna har han någonsin sagt: Sätt dig på min högra sida, tills jag har lagt dina fiender som en fotpall under dina fötter. 14 Är inte änglarna andar i helig tjänst, utsända för att tjäna dem som skall ärva frälsningen? (SFB)

Jämför gärna psalmen om Kungen och om Gud med drottning Sabas uttryck om Salomo:

2 Krön. 9: Välsignad vare Herren, din Gud, som har funnit sådant behag i dig att han har satt dig på sin tron till att vara konung inför Herren, din Gud! Eftersom din Gud älskar Israel och vill hålla det vid makt till evig tid, därför har han satt dig till konung över dem, för att du skall skipa lag och rätt.”

Och Kung Davids nästan profetiska uttryck:

1 Krön. 28:Bland alla mina söner – för Herren har gett mig många söner – utvalde han min son Salomo till att sitta på Herrens kungatron och regera över Israel. Han sade till mig: Din son Salomo är den som skall bygga mitt hus och mina förgårdar. Ty honom har jag utvalt till min son, och jag skall vara hans fader. Jag skall befästa hans kungamakt FÖR EVIGT, om han står fast vid att följa mina bud och föreskrifter, som han nu gör. (+ 1 Krön. 29:22-25)

Nu är inte Salomo någon Gud (och det tråkiga med Salomo är att han förmodligen dog som en syndare ihop med sina ännu mer syndiga fruar) men det är en intressant jämförelse att denna Kung sattes på Herrens tron för att regera ”för evigt” som Guds representant på jorden, liksom också Jesus sattes på Herrens tron för att regera för evigt. I Salomos fall så handlar det om att regera på jorden, och i Jesus fall så handlar det om att regera i Guds rike där även änglarna ska komma att TILLBE honom. I båda fallen så är denna upphöjelse och löfte om den eviga regenttiden kopplad till kravet att lyda bud och föreskrifter. Salomo gjorde det inte, men Jesus var lydig till döden på korset. Messias skulle komma från Davids blodslinje (och Salomo är pappa till David), och även David var ju en Kung som satt på tronen. Denna Kung i Ps. 45 med alla sina gudomliga uttryck, verkar vara en profetisk liknelse till den kommande Kungarnas Kung som skulle framträda många år senare i form av Jesus, Messias. Även Jahve kallas Kungarnas Kung. Kungen i Ps. 45 är en profetisk bild av den kommande SANNA regenten i form av Jesus, som inte har ett begränsat rike på jorden utan ett evigt i himlen.

Gud ENSAM är Gud, så hur kommer det sig då att även Jesus kallas Gud? Endast treenigheten löser detta! Vidare läser vi här nedan att ingen i skyn ens kan jämföras Gud Herren, och VEM i all världen är honom lik? Absolut INGEN enligt psalmerna! Ändå läser vi i Hebr. 1:3 att Jesus är ”hans väsens avbild” som 1917 säger. Antingen innehåller psalmerna och boken Jesaja lögner, eller också är Jesus Gud och ingår i samma treenighet:

Ps. 89:4 ”Jag har slutit ett förbund med min utvalde, med ed har jag lovat min tjänare David:5 Din ätt skall jag låta bestå för evig tid och bygga din tron från släkte till släkte.” Sela.6 Himlarna prisar dina under, Herre, och din trofasthet i de heligas församling.7 Ty vem i skyn kan jämföras med Herren? Vem bland Guds söner är Herren lik?

Ps. 86:10 Herre, ingen är dig lik bland gudarnainga gärningar är som dina. Alla folk som du har gjort  skall komma och tillbe inför dig, Herre, de skall ära ditt namn. 10 Ty du är stor och du gör under. DU ENSAM ÄR GUD.

Hebr. 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the EXACT REPRESENTATION of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high (NASB)

Bortförklaringar – vem helst kan kallas GUD så det betyder inget att Jesus kallas GUD i Hebr 1

Om vi ständigt och jämt stöter på gudar i vår vardag så borde det väl tydliggöras när det är just skaparguden i Bibeln som uttrycker sig? Men i själva verket så är det sällan något problem att förstå vilken Gud som uttrycker sig eftersom vi har lärt oss att det endast finns EN Gud allena och då borde det givetvis vara den Guden som det handlar om såvida ingenting annat tydligt sägs. De enda gångerna som några människor frågar sig ”vilken Gud handlar det om egentligen?” så verkar det ENDAST röra just de verser där JESUS påstås vara GUD! Inga andra verser ifrågasätts! Men om vi ser i Hebr. 1 så kopplas flera gudomliga attribut till Jesus som GUD, och dessa attribut kan absolut inte kopplas till vanliga människor som fått auktoritet av Gud att utföra hans domar. Hebr 1 säger att Jesus är Gud och att han:

  1. ärver allting
  2. utstrålar Guds härlighet
  3. uppenbarar hans (Guds) väsen
  4. uppehåller allt genom sitt ord
  5. renar människor från synden
  6. är större än änglarna (trots att vi kan läsa i Fil. att han är lägre än änglarna som människa på jorden)
  7. skall TILLBES av änglarna (endast GUD ska vi tillbe säger Bibeln uttryckligen)
  8. har en tron som står i evigheters evighet
  9. har en rättens spira som är sitt eget rikes spira (attribut som tydligt kopplas till GUD i GT)
  10. älskar rättfärdighet och hatar orättfärdighet (uttryck ofta kopplat till Gud)
  11. kallas GUD och är SMORD
  12. kallas HERRE (även Herrarnas Herre på andra ställen, som också Gud kallas)
  13. har I BEGYNNELSEN lagt jordens grund och skapat himlarna MED SINA EGNA HÄNDER (trots att vi kan läsa i GT att Gud ENSAM skapat jorden och himlarna och att INGEN var med honom)
  14. är densamme och hans år tar inte slut

Detta är knappast något man kan säga om någon annan människa på jorden – inte ens Moses! Gud Fader kallar sin son Gud för att han ÄR Gud, och för att han har alla attribut som skaparguden har!

Gud skapade hela världen ensam och med sina egna händer – och Jesus också!jorden

Vi vet att Gud inte delar sin ära med någon (Jesaja 42:8) så varför ger han så mycket ära och makt åt sonen? Notera också denna ordalydelse från Hebr. 1., vilket är en referens till nedan psalm med nästan exakt samma ordalydelse. Även denna psalm talar om GUD som lade jordens grund och skapade allting med sina egna händer. Om denna ordalydelse handlar om GUD i psalmen så borde exakt samma ordalydelse också handla om GUD i Hebr. 1, men ändå kopplar Gud Fader detta med JESUS. Kan vi tro på det Gud säger, eller menar vi att han har fel som gör sonen till GUD?:

Hebr. 1:10 Och: Du, Herre, har i begynnelsen lagt jordens grund, och himlarna är dina händers verk.*) 11 De skall gå under, men du förblir. De skall alla nötas ut som en klädnad.12 Som en mantel skall du rulla ihop dem, och som en klädnad skall de bytas ut. Men du är densamme, och dina år har inget slut.

*) Ps. 102:25 Jag sade: MIN GUD tag inte bort mig mitt i livet, dina år varar från släkte till släkte. 26 För länge sedan lade du jordens grund, himlarna är dina händers verk. 27 De skall gå under, men du förblir. De skall alla nötas ut som en klädnad, du skall förvandla dem som man byter kläder, och de försvinner. 28 Men du är densamme och dina år har inget slut.

Det är också värt att nämna vad  Jesaja säger

Jesaja 44:24 Så säger Herren, din återlösare,  han som format dig alltifrån moderlivet: Jag, Herren, är den som har gjort allt, den som ENSAM har spänt ut himlen och brett ut jorden. Vem var med mig?

Jesaja 42: 5 Så säger Gud, Herren,  han som har skapat himlen och spänt ut den, han som har utbrett jorden med allt som växer där,han som har givit liv åt folket som bor där och ande åt dem som vandrar på den.

Kol. 1:13 Ty han har frälst oss från mörkrets välde och försatt oss i sin älskade Sons rike.14 I honom hava vi förlossningen, förlåtelsen för våra synder,15 i honom som är den osynlige Gudens avbild och förstfödd före allt skapat. 16 Ty i honom skapades allt i himmelen och på jorden, synligt såväl som osynligt, både tronänglar och herrar och furstar och väldigheter i andevärlden. Alltsammans har blivit skapat genom honom och till honom.17 Ja, han är till före allt annat, och alltsammans äger bestånd i honom. 

Om vi kan läsa verser precis som det står så finns det ingen anledning att krångla till det och riskera att hamna i bibelmotsättningar. Om Gud Fader kallar sin son för GUD, kan vi lita på det eller måste vi anstränga oss för att hitta alternativa översättningar som ger ett annat mera önskvärt resultat? Varför kämpa emot Bibelns klara budskap att Jesus är Gud, som alltid funnits tillsammans med Fadern i treenigheten, och som valde att födas i mänskligt kött och dö som ett syndoffer för oss?

2 Johannesbrevet 1:7 Ty många villolärare hava gått ut i världen, vilka icke bekänna att Jesus är Kristus, som skulle komma i köttet; en sådan är Villoläraren och Antikrist.

Jesus lät sig TILLBES, och lärde oss att tillbe och tjäna endast GUD

”Tillbe” är översatt från det grekiska ordet proskyneó (Strong’s 4352). Även om ”tillbe” är den vanligaste översättningen så kan ordet även ha betydelse att gå ner på knä inför någon och visa aktning/vördnad. Sammanhanget hjälper till att se betydelsen. Det vore oärligt att översätta ordet med ”tillbe” varje gång det handlar om Gud Fader och till ”falla ner inför” varje gång det handlar om Jesus. Då har man ju bestämt sig på förhand att manipulera texten så att den stämmer överens med det resultat man vill ha.

KJV översätter ordet med: worship (60 gånger).

NASB: worship (32), worshiped (17), worshipers (1), worshiping (1), worships (1), bow down (1), bow down before (1), bowed down (1), bowed down before (2), bowing before (1), bowing down (1), prostrated himself before (1)

Trots att ”proskyneó” står i relation till Jesus i 25% av gångerna i Jehovas Vittnen engelska Bibel (The New World Translation) så har översättarna valt att inte översätta ordet med ”tillbe” en endaste gång. Om ordet däremot kan läsas i relation till djävulen, demoner, avgudar etc, så har de valt att översätta exakt samma ord med ”tillbe”!  Detta är inget ärligt sätt att översätta Bibeln på!

”Herren, din Gud, skall du tillbe, och endast honom skall du tjäna”

Jesus ger inte något erbjudande att man kan tillbe någon annan än just Gud. Så varför låter han sig så ofta tillbes om han inte vore Gud? För att Gud vill lura oss att tro att Jesus är Gud fastän han inte är det?

Matt. 4:9 Och han sade: ”Allt detta vill jag ge dig, om du faller ner och tillber mig.” 10 Då sade Jesus till honom: ”Gå bort, Satan! Ty det står skrivet: Herren, din Gud, skall du tillbe, och endast honom skall du tjäna.”

Lukas 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

När Jesus nämnde ”Det står skrivet”, så syftar han på nedanstående bud från Gud, där tillbedjan står i relation till Gud.

5 Mos. 6:13 Herren, din Gud, skall du frukta, honom skall du tjäna, och vid hans namn skall du avlägga din ed. 14 Ni skall inte följa andra gudar, någon gud som dyrkas av de folk som bor runt omkring er, 15 ty en nitälskande Gud är Herren, din Gud, i din mitt. Se därför till att inteHerrens, din Guds, vrede blir upptänd mot dig och han utrotar dig från jordens yta.

I Gamla Testamentet så används ”tillbe” många gånger i relation till Gud (översatt från hebreiska), med upprepade varningar till Israel att inte tjäna andra Gudar. ”Tillbe” och ”tjäna” används både ihop och separat, och oavsett vilket så är orden starkt förknippade med Gud.

2 Mos. 34:14 Du skall inte tillbe någon annan gud, ty Herren heter Nitälskare. En nitälskande Gud är han.

5 Mos. 30:17 Men om ditt hjärta vänder sig bort och du inte vill höra, och om du blir förledd och tillber andra gudar och tjänar dem,

Daniel 3:14 sade Nebukadnessar till dem: ”Är det sant att ni, Sadrak, Mesak och Abed-Nego, inte dyrkar mina gudar och inte tillber den staty av guld som jag har låtit ställa upp?—28 Nebukadnessar tog då till orda och sade: ”Lovad vare Sadraks, Mesaks och Abed-Negos Gud, som sände sin ängel och räddade sina tjänare. De förtröstade så på honom att de överträdde kungens befallning och vågade sina liv för att inte tvingas dyrka eller tillbe någon annan gud än sin egen Gud.

Apg. 7:41 Och de gjorde vid den tiden en kalv och bar fram offer åt avguden och jublade över sina händers verk. 42 Men Gud vände sig bort från dem och utlämnade dem till att dyrka himlens här, så som det står skrivet i profeternas bok: Bar ni väl fram åt mig slaktoffer och andra offer under de fyrtio åren i öknen, ni av Israels hus? 43 Nej, ni bar med er Moloks tält och guden Romfas stjärna, de bilder som ni hade gjort för att tillbe. Men jag skall föra er bortom Babylon.

Det är tänkt att vi ska tillbe honom som skapat himmel, jord och hav. Vem är det? Gud (Yahweh) har självfallet gjort allt detta (alldeles själv, och ingen var med honom enligt Bibeln), men även Jesus skapade allting med sina egna händer. Det enda sättet att förklara detta och inte göra Gud till en lögnare, är att acceptera Bibelns klara budskap att Jesus är Gud.

Upp. 14:7 Han sade med hög röst: ”Frukta Gud och ge honom äran, ty stunden för hans dom har kommit. Tillbe honom som har skapat himlen och jorden, havet och vattenkällorna.”

Hebr. 1:8 Men om Sonen säger han: Gud, din tron står i evigheters evighet,och rättens spira är ditt rikes spira. 9 Du älskar rättfärdighet och hatar orättfärdighet.Därför, Gud, har din Gud smort dig med glädjens oljamer än dina medbröder.10 Och: Du, Herre, har i begynnelsen lagt jordens grund,och himlarna är dina händers verk.

Kol. 1:16 Ty i honom skapades allt i himlen och på jorden, det synliga och det osynliga, tronfurstar och herradömen, makter och väldigheter. Allt är skapat genom honom och till (KJV BY HIM) honom.17 Han är till före allting, och allt består genom honom. 18 Han är huvudet för sin kropp, församlingen. Han är begynnelsen, den förstfödde från de döda, för att han i allt skulle vara den främste. 19 Ty Gud beslöt att låta hela fullheten bo i honom

Anti-trinitianer kanske insisterar på att Jesus inte skulle tillbe någon Gud om han vore Gud själv, men då har de inte förstått den klassiska treenighetsläran. Jesus var också människa som vi, och han kommunicerade med sin Fader genom bön och tillbedjan. Läs gärna my article om hur Jesus frivilligt gjorde sig lägre än änglarna och såg sin Fader (fortfarande i himlen som Jesus lämnat) som sin auktoritet.

Joh. 17: 5 Fader, förhärliga nu mig med den härlighet som jag hade hos dig innan världen var till.— 24 Fader, jag vill att där jag är, där skall också de som du har gett mig vara med mig, så att de får se min härlighet som du har gett mig, eftersom du har älskat mig innan världens grund var lagd.

Att tillbe andra människor eller saker är att bryta mot det första budet; att inte ha några andra Gudar än Gud

Apg. 7:43 Nej, ni bar med er Moloks tält och guden Romfas stjärna, de bilder som ni hade gjort för att TILLBE. Men jag skall föra er bortom Babylon.

Upp. 16:Och den förste gick bort och tömde sin skål över jorden, och onda och svåra bölder slog upp på de människor som hade vilddjurets märke och som tillbad dess bild.

Upp. 19:20 Och vilddjuret greps tillsammans med den falske profeten, som hade gjort tecken inför vilddjuret och genom dessa tecken vilselett dem som hade tagit emot vilddjurets märke och tillbett dess bild. Levande kastades de båda i eldsjön som brinner av svavel. 

Bibelverser där vi kan se att Jesus blir tillbeddworship 4

Om Jesus inte är Gud kan man undra varför han lät sig tillbes så många gånger, och varför han ingen gång korrigerade alla de som tillbad honom genom att förklara det olämpliga i att tillbe en vanlig människa. Det hade definitivt fått alla treenighetstroende att tänka till. INGEN GÅNG grep Jesus in och talade människor tillrätta. Man kan säga, att för en person som säger att vi endast ska tillbe GUD så tillbes han själv ofantligt mycket! Betyder det att Jesus är en hädare och en hycklare (och lögnare) ELLER betyder det att han faktiskt är GUD?

De vise männen tillbad Jesus vilket var listigt av dem eftersom vi kan läsa om denne furste att han var Mäktig Gud samt andra gudomliga namn. Ett litet barn kan inte ens uppfatta att någon faller ner och visar vördnad, så även detta talar för att de vise männen faktiskt föll ner inför honom för att TILLBE – där åldern inte spelar någon roll.

Mat. 2:2 När Jesus var född i Betlehem i Judeen på kung Herodes tid, se, då kom visa mänfrån Östern till Jerusalem och frågade: ”Var är judarnas nyfödde konung? Vi har sett hans stjärna gå upp och har kommit för att TILLBE honom.” — Sedan skickade han dem till Betlehem och sade: ”Gå och sök noga efter barnet, och när ni har funnit det, underrätta mig, så att även jag kan komma och TILLBE det.” —11 Och de gick in i huset och fick se barnet med Maria, dess mor. Då föll de ner och TILLBAD det, och de tog fram sina skatter och överlämnade gåvor till barnet: guld, rökelse och myrra. 

Jes. 9:6 Ty ett barn blir oss fött,  en son blir oss given. På hans axlar vilar herradömet, och hans namn är: Under, Rådgivare, Mäktig Gud, Evig Fader, Fridsfurste.7 Så skall herradömet bli stort och friden utan slut över Davids tron och hans kungarike.

Jes. 7:14 Därför skall Herren själv ge er ett tecken: Se, jungfrun skall bli havande och föda en son och hon skall ge honom namnet Immanuel.

Matt. 14:33 Och de som var i båten TILLBAD honom och sade: ”Du är verkligen Guds Son.”

Matt. 28:9 Och se, Jesus kom emot dem och hälsade dem. Och de gick fram och fattade om hans fötter och TILLBAD honom.

Matt. 28:16 De elva lärjungarna begav sig till det berg i Galileen dit Jesus hade befallt dem att gå.17 Och när de såg honom, TILLBAD de honom, men andra tvivlade18 Då trädde Jesus fram och talade till dem och sade: ”Jag har fått all makt i himlen och på jorden.

Lukas 24:50 Sedan förde han dem ut till Betania, och han lyfte sina händer och välsignade dem.51 Och medan han välsignade dem, skildes han från dem och blev upptagen till himlen.52 De TILLBAD honom och vände tillbaka till Jerusalem i stor glädje. 53 Och de var alltid i templet och prisade Gud.

Joh. 9:35 Jesus fick höra att de hade drivit bort honom, och när han fann honom sade han: ”Tror du på Människosonen?” 36 Han svarade: ”Vem är han, herre? Tala om det så att jag kan tro på honom.” 37 Jesus sade: ”Du har sett honom. Den som talar med dig, han är det.” 38 Då sade mannen: ”Jag tror, Herre.” Och han TILLBAD honom.

Hebr. 1:Och när han låter den Förstfödde träda in i världen, säger han också: Alla Guds änglar skall tillbe honom.

Upp. 5:12 Och de sade med hög röst: ”Lammet, som blev slaktat, är värdigt att ta emot makten, rikedomen och visheten, kraften och äran, härligheten och tacksägelsen.” 13 Och allt skapat i himlen och på jorden och under jorden och på havet, ja, allt som finns i dem hörde jag säga: ”Honom som sitter på tronen, honom och Lammet, tillhör tacksägelsen och priset, äran och makten i evigheternas evigheter.” 14 Och de fyra väsendena sade: ”Amen”. Och de äldste föll ner och tillbad.

Upp. 7: De stod inför tronen och inför Lammet, klädda i vita kläder och med palmblad i händerna. 10 Och de ropade med hög röst: ”Frälsningen tillhör vår Gud, honom som sitter på tronen, och Lammet.” 11 Och alla änglar stod runt omkring tronen och kring de äldste och de fyra väsendena, och de föll ner på sina ansikten inför tronen och tillbad Gud.

Upp 11: 16 Och de tjugofyra äldste som satt på sina troner inför Gud, föll ner på sina ansikten och tillbad Gud 17 och sade:—18 Folken vredgades, och din vredes dag har kommit, tiden när de döda skall dömas och när du skall löna dina tjänare profeterna och de heliga och dem som fruktar ditt namn, små och stora, och då du skall fördärva dem som fördärvar jorden. (Notera att denna beskrivning av Gud passar perfect in på Jesus som ska döma jorden.)

Det finns även andra ställen där ”proskyneó” används men där den svenska översättningen (till skillnad mot andra översättningar såsom KJV) valt att nöja sig med att ”falla ner inför” även om även detta är ett tecken på tillbedjan av Gud. 

Mat. 8:Då kom en spetälsk fram och föll ner (worshiped KJV) för honom och sade: ”Herre, om du vill, kan du göra mig ren.

Mat. 9:18 Medan Jesus talade till dem, kom en synagogföreståndare och föll ner (worshiped KJV) för honom och sade: ”Min dotter har just dött. Men kom och lägg din hand på henne, så får hon liv igen.”

Mat. 15:24 Han svarade: ”Jag är sänd endast till de förlorade fåren av Israels hus.” 25 Men hon kom och föll ner (worshiped KJV) för honom och sade: ”Herre, hjälp mig!”

Matt. 18:25 Eftersom han inte kunde betala, befallde hans herre att han och hans hustru och barn och allt vad han ägde skulle säljas och skulden betalas. 26 Tjänaren föll ner för honom och bad (worshiped KJV): Ha tålamod med mig, så skall jag betala dig alltsammans. (A parable where the King is a picture of the Father.)

Mat. 20:20 Modern till Sebedeus söner gick då fram till Jesus tillsammans med sina söner. Hon föll på knä (worshiped KJV) och ville be honom om något21 Han frågade henne: ”Vad vill du?” Hon sade till honom: ”Lova att mina båda söner här får sitta bredvid dig i ditt rike, den ene på din högra sida och den andre på din vänstra.

Mark. 5:När han nu på långt håll fick se Jesus, sprang han fram och föll ner (worshiped KJV) för honom och skrek: ”Vad har jag med dig att göra, Jesus, den högste Gudens Son? Jag besvär dig vid Gud: Plåga mig inte!”

Upp. 3:Jag känner dina gärningar. Se, jag har låtit en dörr stå öppen för dig, en dörr som ingen kan stänga, ty din kraft är ringa och du har hållit fast vid mitt ord och inte förnekat mitt namn. Se, jag överlämnar åt dig några från Satans synagoga, några som säger att de är judar men inte är det utan ljuger. Jag skall få dem att komma och falla ner inför dina fötter (worshiped KJV), och de skall förstå att jag har dig kär.

Andra ställen där ordet översätts med TILLBE

Joh. 4:19 Kvinnan sade: ”Herre, jag märker att du är en profet. 20 Våra fäder har tillbett på detta berg, och ni säger att den plats där man skall tillbe finns i Jerusalem.” 21 Jesus svarade: ”Tro mig, kvinna, den tid kommer, då det varken är på detta berg eller i Jerusalem som ni skall tillbe Fadern22 Ni tillber vad ni inte känner. Vi tillber vad vi känner, eftersom frälsningen kommer från judarna. 23 Men den tid kommer, ja, den är redan här, då sanna tillbedjare skall tillbe Fadern i ande och sanning. Ty sådana tillbedjare vill Fadern ha. 24 Gud är ande, och de som tillber honom måste tillbe i ande och sanning.”

Hebr. 11:19 Abraham räknade med att Gud hade makt till och med att uppväcka från de döda. Därifrån fick han honom också tillbaka, bildligt talat.20 I tron gav Isak sin välsignelse åt Jakob och Esau för kommande tider. 21 I tron välsignade den döende Jakob var och en av Josefs söner och tillbad, lutad mot änden av sin stav. 

Om någon faller på knä inför våra fötter som ber vi väl dem att stiga upp? Dock inte Jesus…worship 3

Om någon skulle falla ner och tillbe och prisa oss så skulle förmodligen den vanliga reaktionen vara en känsla av obehag (eftersom vi vet att vi inte är någon Gud som ska tillbes) samt att be personen sluta och resa upp honom. Exakt den reaktionen visade också PETRUS och ängeln som Johannes tillbad. De förklarade också varför – Petrus för att han är en vanlig människa, och ängeln för att han är en vanlig medtjänare. Så Petrus och Ängeln reagerade som man kan förvänta sig, så varför gjorde inte Jesus det? Förmodligen för att han är GUD och därför förtjänar att tillbes. Varför skulle de flesta Bibelöversättare ha fel? För att det inte passar in med det önskade resultatet?

Apg. 10:25 När Petrus skulle gå in, kom Kornelius emot honom och föll ner för hans fötter och TILLBAD. 26 Men Petrus reste honom upp och sade: ”Stig upp! Också jag är en människa.” 

Upp. 19:10 Jag föll då ner för hans fötter för att tillbe honom, men han sade till mig: ”Gör inte det! Jag är bara en medtjänare till dig och dina bröder, som har vittnesbördet om Jesus. Gud skall du tillbe. Ty Jesu vittnesbörd är profetians ande.”

Upp. 22:Det är jag, Johannes, som har hört och sett detta. Och när jag hade hört och sett det, föll jag ner för att tillbe framför fötterna på ängeln som hade visat mig detta. Men han sade till mig: ”Gör inte det! Jag är tjänare liksom du och dina bröder profeterna och de som håller fast vid orden i denna bok. Gud skall du tillbe.”

Jesus säger som sagt att vi endast ska tillbe GUD, men Gud Fader själv säger att JESUS ska tillbes när han träder in i världen. Antingen har en utav dem fel, eller också är Jesus GUD och det är därför som han ska tillbes:

Hebreerbrevet 1:6 Och när han låter den Förstfödde träda in i världen, säger han också: Alla Guds änglar skall tillbe honom.

Lustigt nog så har även Vakttornet (som ändrar sig då och då) erkänt att Jesus tillbads, även om de felaktigt menar att Jesus är en Gud bland flera:

”The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Yes we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. While he was not the God, Jehovah, he was a God. The word ‘God’ signifies a ‘mighty one,’ and our Lord was indeed a mighty one. So it is stated in the first two verses of the gospel of John. It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father. . .” (The Watchtower, July 15, 1898, p. 216.)

Om vem som helst kan tillbes för att det anses som vanlig respekt så kan man fråga sig varför Jesus, Petrus och ängeln Gabriel inte verkar ha känt till detta när de menar att vi endast ska tillbe Gud, och varför Jesus gick emot sitt eget förbud och lät sig tillbes?

1 Krön 29:20 ärefter sade David till hela församlingen: ”Lova HERREN, ER GUD” Då lovade hela församlingen HERREN, sina fäders GUD, och de bugade sig och föll ner för HERREN och för kungen. 21 Dagen därefter slaktade de slaktoffer åt HERREN och offrade brännoffer åt HERREN: —- 22 De åt och drack med stor glädje inför HERRENS ansikte den dagen, och för andra gången gjorde de Salomo, Davids son, till kung.

Ovan skriftställe är alltså det som Jehovas Vittnen brukar använda för att komma bort från det faktum att JESUS TILLBES i massor av Bibelställen. Självfallet så anser inte Kung David att han kan tillbes liksom Gud för då bryter han ju Guds främsta bud, men det är inget fel att församlingen lovar HERREN (inte David), och att de när de bugar och böjer sig ner inför Herren och faktiskt även tar av sig hatten och bockar även för David.smile Ingen idé att göra en höna av en fjäder utan att läsa hela skriften utan att göra så att den motsäger sig själv. Hur lyder texten om man översätter den ord för ord?

”Now bless the assembly to all David said to the Lord and did and bowed of their fathers the God the Lord the assembly and all the morrow the Lord offerings and offered and sacrifices the Lord”

The ANGEL OF THE LORD is our God JESUS CHRIST

The Hebrew word for angel is ”malak” (Strong’s 4397) but this word can also mean ”messenger” or ”one who is sent”, so the messenger in question doesn’t necessarily have to be in the form of a created angel. (When it comes to Jesus Christ we know he was not created since he is the Creator himself and nothing/no one existed before him.) We must determine from context whether the word refers to the office of the sent one or to the nature of angels. We must also check if it says ”AN angel of the Lord or ”THE angel of the Lord” to determine whether there is a particular angel spoken about. The angel of the Lord seems to be a preincarnate form of  Jesus (who is God and part of the trinity), and that could explain why people have in fact seen God without dying.  That’s also why verses like this makes much sense:

John 17:And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE the world was.

No man can see God face to face and live

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

1 Tim. 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John. 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Jesus can be seen despite being God, while being in the flesh or in another manifestation (like the angel of the Lord)

God can be seen (without causing death) in other forms, such as when he appeared in the bush to Moses, as God in flesh in the form of Jesus Christ and also in the form of an angel of the LordThe Bible tells us that no one can see GOD and live, and yet the verses below show us that we CAN do this IF we can see a reincarnated form of God. Jesus is God, and when he walked on earth he was in human form in the flesh and that’s why we can see him and still live.

2 Cor. 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the IMAGE of God (theou), should shine unto them.For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the FACE OF Jesus Christ.

Phil. 2:Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:Who, being in the FORM of God (theou), thought it not robbery to be equal with God (theo):But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Wherefore God (theos) also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name

Hebr 1:1 God (theos), who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;Who being the brightness of his glory, and THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

Col. 2:Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead (theotés) BODILY.10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power

 John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (theon), and the Word was God (theos).The same was in the beginning with God (theon).All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.In him was life; and the life was the light of men.—14 And the Word WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

1 Tim. 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God (theou)which is the church of the LIVING GOD (theou), the pillar and ground of the truth.16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness (eusebeias)God was MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God (theou), which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Col. 1: 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:15 Who is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstborn*) of every creature:16 For BY HIM were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is BEFORE all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

*) Firstborn: pre-eminence in rank as opposed to priority in time. This definition can be seen in passages where the term ”firstborn” is used of the pre-eminent son who was not the eldest, e.g. Psalm 89:27, where David is called ”firstborn” although he was actually the youngest son.

An apostle is defined as one who is sent out on missions and who has the authority of the one who sent him:

Hebr. 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

Mal. 3: 1 Behold, I will send my messenger [John the Baptiste], and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant [Malak = Angel, thus ”Angel of the Covenant”], whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

1) HAGAR meets the Angel of the Lord and he promised to multiply Hagar’s  descendents, which is something that only God could promise and fulfill.  Hagar referred to the Angel of the Lord as El Roi (el = God ) the-God-Who-Sees Hagar

Gen. 16:But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.And he said, Hagar, Sarai’s maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction.12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.13 And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, THOU GOD seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?

Note below he plays on Ishmael’s name ”God hears”, and twice in the verses below can we read ”God heard” and ”God has heard”:

Gen. 21:16 And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bow shot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.

2) Abraham and his visit by JAHVE (Jahve/God), in the form of an angel 

Abraham had an interesting visit one hot day outside his tent. Three men visited him and he called at least one of them for ”my Lord” (adonai) and he addressed him as God (Jehovah). He offered the three men water to wash their feet and food to eat, and they also ate with him. It appears as though only two men (angels) continued on to Sodom after their stay with Abraham, because when Gen.19 begins we can read that only two of them arrived at Lot’s house, and once again these angels decided to eat – but now in the company of Lot. (We can see further down below that the angel of the Lord who visited Manoah chose not to eat.) It looks like one of the three men (the Lord) remained with Abraham after the other two had left, since Abraham and the Lord continued to have a dialogue about sparing righteous individuals in Sodom – if there were any.

Gen. 18:1 And the Lord (Jehova) appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,And said, My Lord (adonai), if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.—13 And the Lord said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?14 Is any thing too hard for the Lord (Jehova)? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.15 Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.17 And the Lord (Jehova) said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord (Jehova), to do justice and judgment; that the Lord (Jehova) may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.20 And the Lord (Jehova) said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord (Jehova).23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?33 And the Lord (Jehovahwent his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

Only two angels continued on to Sodom. The third angel (the Angel of the Lord) remained with Abraham for a short while.

Gen. 19: 1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter

Question: Jesus claims that Abraham rejoiced for having seen his (Jesus) day and was glad when he saw it. If the above is not the occurrence when this happened, then WHEN did this extraordinary event take place? Surely Moses wouldn’t neglect to mention such an important meeting in his texts?:

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and HE SAW IT, AND WAS GLAD

It further seems as though God acted in two different locations at the same time:

1 Mos. 19:24 Then the Lord (Jahve) rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord (Jahve) out of heaven

You can read more quotes from the old church fathers in this article, which shows that they too understood these exact verses as though it’s about God himself in the form of Jesus who dines with Abraham. You will be overwhelmed by the strong evidence for Jesus deity if you read the quotes in that article and follow the link to even more quotes. 

Later, on Mt Moriah, where Abraham was to offer up his son Isaac, the Angel of the Lord identifies himself as the LORD GOD. The Lord (the Angel of the Lord) says ”By myself have I sworn”, and he notices that Abraham has not withheld his son from HIM (the Angel of the Lord).

Gen. 2210 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from ME..14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son;17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed MY VOICE

3) Jacob had a dream where the angel of the Lord spake to him

This angel of the Lord referred to himself as the Lord God, and when the same angel of the Lord approached Jacob many years later, he referred to himself as the God of Bethel to give him a reminder of who he was:

Gen. 28:13 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed..15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the Lord is in this place; and I knew it not.17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.19 And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first.

Gen. 31:11 And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I.12 And he said, Lift up now thine eyes, and see, all the rams which leap upon the cattle are ringstraked, speckled, and grisled: for I have seen all that Laban doeth unto thee.13 I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto ME: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.

Below a very old Jacob (Israel) on his deathbed, identifies this angel with the God in whose presence his fathers Abraham and Isaac had livedThis is the same angel that appeared to him earlier in the dream.

Gen. 48:14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim’s head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh’s head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the GOD which fed me all my life long unto this day,16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth

Hosea 12:The Lord hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;Even the Lord God of hosts; the Lord is his memorial.

Also Abraham had an encounter with the Lord in Bethel, long before Jacob did.

Gen. 12:7 And the Lord appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto theLord, who appeared unto him.And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the Lord, and called upon the name of the Lord.

Jacob wrestles with a man who is identified as God – and Jacob saw God FACE TO FACE and asks for his NAME

A strange wrestling match with a prophetic meaning was made between Jacob and a man who he identifies as GOD.  Hosea describes Jacob (jaqob = wrestler) as an example of an Israelite who won victories through turning to God.

Gen. 32:1 And Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him.And when Jacob saw them, he said, This is God’s host: and he called the name of that place Mahanaim.—22 And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, and passed over the ford Jabbok.23 And he took them, and sent them over the brook, and sent over that he had.24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen GOD face to face, and my life is preserved.31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob’s thigh in the sinew that shrank.

Hosea 12:The Lord hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:Yea, he had power over the ANGEL, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;Even the Lord God of hosts; the Lord is his memorial.Therefore turn thou to thy God: keep mercy and judgment and wait on thy God continually.

Proverbs. 30:Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? WHAT IS HIS NAME, AND WHAT IS HIS SONS’S NAME, if thou canst tell?

Rev. 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME.

Rev. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a NAME WRITTEN, THAT NO MAN KNEW, BUT HE HIMSELF.13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called THE WORD OF GOD (logos tou theou).

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD (logos) WAS GOD (theos).The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Judges. 13:Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A man of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name:16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord.17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is SECRET? (wonderful, Strong’s 6383)

The Lord’s name is WONDERFUL (marvellous), and this is in relation to Jesus. Jesus is the corner stone which the jews rejected, and most of them still refuse to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah and God who has come in the flesh.

Jesaja 9:For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called WONDERFUL (Strong’s 6383), Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Matt. 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The STONE which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is MARVELLOUS in our eyes?

4) Moses saw God face to face (and a few other people)mose

The angel of the Lord below claimed ”I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob and Moses hid his face for he was afraid to look upon GOD.

Exodus 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, GOD called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.Moreover he said, I AM THE GOD of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon GOD.And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

Exodus. 24Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:10 And they saw the GOD of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink

Num. 12:And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us

5) Joshua and his meeting with the captain of the Lord’s host

When John attempted to worship an angel in Revelation 19:10; 22:8-9, he was told not to do it. Yet, Joshua, as seen below, worshiped ”the captain of the Lord’s host”. Notice that the captain of the Lord’s host told Joshua – just like the angel of the Lord told Moses in Exodus 3:5  – to take off his shoes because of the holy ground.

Joshua 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?15 And the captain of the Lord’s host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Compare with the Angel of the ord who is standing with a sword drawn in his hand:

Num. 22:23 And the ass saw THE ANGEL OF THE LORD standing in the way, and HIS SWORD DRAWN IN HIS HAND: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.

1 Chron. 21:16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw THE ANGEL OF THE LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, HAVING A DRAWN SWORD IN HIS HAND stretched out over Jerusalem.

The word of God through Zechariah, who saw Joshua in a vision:

Zech. 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying,Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will ENGRAVE the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

6) ZECHARIAH’s meeting with the Angel of the Lord in a vision – a man on a red horse among myrtle trees

The above vision comes shortly after the below one. An ordinary angel revealed a message for Zechariah, and the man among the myrtle trees is the same as the Angel of the Lord. He in his turn is communicating with the Lord of Hosts (God the Father) so they are not exactly the same.

Zech. 1:Upon the four and twentieth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Sebat, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the Lord unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white.Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be.10 And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the Lord hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth.11 And they answered the angel of the Lord that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.12 Then the angel of the Lord answered and said, O Lord of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?13 And the Lord answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words.14 So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy.15 And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction.16 Therefore thus saith the Lord; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the Lord of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.

7) Gideon mentions that he has seen the Lord face to face, and ”the angel of the LORD is used interchangeably with ”the LORD and ”God”gideon

Judg 6:19 And Gideon went in, and made ready a kid, and unleavened cakes of an ephah of flour: the flesh he put in a basket, and he put the broth in a pot, and brought it out unto him under the oak, and presented it.20 And the angel of God said unto him, Take the flesh and the  unleavened cakes, and lay them upon this rock, and pour out the broth. And he did so.21 Then the angel of the Lord put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the Lord departed out of his sight.22 And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the Lord, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord God! for because I have seen an angel of the Lord face to face.23 And the Lord said unto him, Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die.24 Then Gideon built an altar there unto the Lord, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

8) Manoah and his wife encounter the angel of the Lord, and Manoah fears that he will DIE for having seen GOD

The Bible doesn’t say that we will die for having seen an angel face to face, but it does say that we will die if we see GOD face to face. Manoa and his wife knew this too, and that’s why they were prepared to die once they realized who they had been having a conversation with.

Judg 13:And there was a certain man of Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren, and bare not.And the angel of the Lord appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing:For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A man of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name:—Then Manoah intreated the Lord, and said, O my Lord, let the man of God which thou didst send come again unto us, and teach us what we shall do unto the child that shall be born.And God hearkened to the voice of Manoah; and the angel of God came again unto the woman as she sat in the field: but Manoah her husband was not with her.10 And the woman made haste, and ran, and shewed her husband, and said unto him, Behold, the man hath appeared unto me, that came unto me the other day.—13 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Of all that I said unto the woman let her beware.14 She may not eat of any thing that cometh of the vine, neither let her drink wine or strong drink, nor eat any unclean thing: all that I commanded her let her observe.15 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee.16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord.17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the Lord: and the angel did wonderously; and Manoah and his wife looked on.20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of theLord.22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.23 But his wife said unto him, If the Lord were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.

9) ISAIAH experiences that he has seen the King, the Lord of hosts before his eyes, and for this reason he fears that he is undone

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.—Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.—Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. 

10) BILEAM meets the Angel of the Lord, or can asses speak and have wisdom?

God says ”the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do”, and the exact same thing says the Angel of the Lord – in first person. It would have been so easy for the Angel of the Lord to say (at any time during his encounter with people) that he is speaking ON BEHALF OF God, but he does just the opposite when he continuously speaks as though he is God himself. (Does he do this to fool people into believing that the Angel of the Lord is GOD, and therefore another manifestation of GOD – namely Jesus?). Note that the Angel of the Lord stands with a drawn sward, just like the captain of the host of the Lord, in Joshua 5.

Num. 22:20 And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do.21 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.22 And God’s anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the Lord stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.23 And the ass saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.24 But the angel of the Lord stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side.25 And when the ass saw the angel of the Lord, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam’s foot against the wall: and he smote her again.26 And the angel of the Lord went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.27 And when the ass saw the angel of the Lord, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam’s anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? and he said, Nay.31 Then the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.32 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:33 And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive.34 And Balaam said unto the angel of the Lord, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again.35 And the angel of the Lord said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.

11) DANIEL and the Angel of the Lord in the burning furnacedaniel

Dan. 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king’s word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

Dan. 6:20 And when he came to the den, he cried with a lamentable voice unto Daniel: and the king spake and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is thy God, whom thou servest continually, able to deliver thee from the lions?21 Then said Daniel unto the king, O king, live for ever.22 My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions’ mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt.

Below it seems like the Angel of the Lord/Jesus is speaking to Daniel, based on the description of his person that we recognize from the book of Revelations. The angel Gabriel didn’t start speaking to Daniel until v. 10 in the same chapter.

Dan. 10:Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

The Ancient of days looks just like Jesus based on his description, and thousand thousands ministered to him. No one is supposed to worship and angel. Moreover, he has the power to judge people, and this is a right that is only given to God. Notice the sword again.

Dan 7:I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Rev. 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged SWORD: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

12) ELIJAH meets the Angel of the Lord

1 King. 19:Then Jezebel sent a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to morrow about this time.—And as he lay and slept under a juniper tree, behold, then an angel touched him, and said unto him, Arise and eat.And he looked, and, behold, there was a cake baken on the coals, and a cruse of water at his head. And he did eat and drink, and laid him down again.And the angel of the Lord came again the second time, and touched him, and said, Arise and eat; because the journey is too great for thee.

2 King. 1:And Ahaziah fell down through a lattice in his upper chamber that was in Samaria, and was sick: and he sent messengers, and said unto them, Go, enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron whether I shall recover of this disease.But the angel of the Lord said to Elijah the Tishbite, Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say unto them, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron?Now therefore thus saith the Lord, Thou shalt not come down from that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die. And Elijah departed—14 Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties: therefore let my life now be precious in thy sight.15 And the angel of the Lord said unto Elijah, Go down with him: be not afraid of him. And he arose, and went down with him unto the king.16 And he said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Forasmuch as thou hast sent messengers to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron, is it not because there is no God in Israel to enquire of his word? therefore thou shalt not come down off that bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt surely die.17 So he died according to the word of the Lord which Elijah had spoken. And Jehoram reigned in his stead in the second year of Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat king of Judah; because he had no son.

13) KING DAVID meets the Angel of the Lord, who has a conversation with GOD (so separate but yet the same)

Also King David had a visit by the Angel of the Lord who again had a sword. Here God is communicating with the Angel of the Lord and he asks him to cease with his destruction of Jerusalem that he had asked him to do. This proves that God and the Angel of the Lord cannot be synonymous, but they could of course both be members of the same trinity (if for instance the Angel of the Lord is a manifestation of Jesus Christ.)

1 Chron. 21:14 So the Lord sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men.15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the Lord beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the Lord stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the Lord stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces.17 And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O Lord my God, be on me, and on my father’s house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.18 Then the angel of the Lord commanded Gad to say to David, that David should go up, and set up an altar unto the Lord in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.—20 And Ornan turned back, and saw the angel; and his four sons with him hid themselves. Now Ornan was threshing wheat.—27 And the Lord commanded the angel; and he put up his sword again into the sheath thereof.—30 But David could not go before it to enquire of God: for he was afraid because of the sword of the angel of the Lord.

Psalm 34:This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles.7 The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalm 35:Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the Lord chase them.Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of theLord persecute them.

14) Ezekiel sees a human figure whom he identifies as the glory of the Lord coming to speak to him, and the man identifies himself as the sovereign Yahweh or Lord

Ez. 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Ez. 2:And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day.For they are impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God.And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they are a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them..And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they are most rebellious.But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee.And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein;10 And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.

15)  1) The Lord, and 2) The angel of God (the angel of the Lord), and 3) Jesus Christ, went before the Israelites in the desert in a pillar of a cloud and in a pillar of fire

God promises to send his angel ahead of the children of Israel as they go through the desert and the Israelites were told to obey  this angel ”since my Name is in him”. God would never share his name with anyone else, or share his glory (especially not with a created angel), so this indicates the angel of the Lord here is no one but God. Only God can forgive sin yet the angel of the Lord had this capacity.

Exodus 3:And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

Exodus 13:21 And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

Exodus 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night.—24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the Lord looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,25 And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the Lord fighteth for them against the Egyptians.26 And the Lord said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians, upon their chariots, and upon their horsemen.

Exodus 19:And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.—16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.20 And the Lord came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the Lord called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.

Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Exodus 23:19 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother’s milk.20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not PARDON your transgressions: for my name is in him.22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

Exodus 24:1 And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the Lord, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.—15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.16 And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.17 And the sight of the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

Exodus 32:34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.

Exodus 33:And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:

Exodus 33:12 And Moses said unto the Lord, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.14 And he said, MY PRESENCE SHALL GO WITH THEE, and I will give thee rest.15 And he said unto him, If thy presence go not with me, carry us not up hence.16 For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou GOEST WITH US? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth.

Isaiah 63:I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord, and the praises of the Lord, according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.In all their affliction he was afflicted, and THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE SAVED THEM: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the Lord caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name

Num. 12:And the Lord spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

Num. 20:15 How our fathers went down into Egypt, and we have dwelt in Egypt a long time; and the Egyptians vexed us, and our fathers:16 And when we cried unto the Lord, he heard our voice, and sent an angel, and hath brought us forth out of Egypt: and, behold, we are in Kadesh, a city in the uttermost of thy border

Deut. 5:The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,(I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you the word of the Lord: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,6 I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Nehemia 9:Thou art the Lord the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;—And didst see the affliction of our fathers in Egypt, and heardest their cry by the Red sea;10 And shewedst signs and wonders upon Pharaoh, and on all his servants, and on all the people of his land: for thou knewest that they dealt proudly against them. So didst thou get thee a name, as it is this day.11 And thou didst divide the sea before them, so that they went through the midst of the sea on the dry land; and their persecutors thou threwest into the deeps, as a stone into the mighty waters.12 Moreover thou leddest them in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire, to give them light in the way wherein they should go.13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

Judg 2:1 And an angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this?Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.And it came to pass, when the angel of the Lord spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept.

1 Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;And did all eat the same spiritual meat;And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.—Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Acts 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.—35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.36 He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.—38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt

Other verses

Zechariah 12:In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have PIERCED, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Psaltaren 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they PIERCED MY HANDS AND MY FEET.17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Isaiah 53:But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 37:36 Then the angel of the Lord went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses (2 King. 19:25)

2 Chron. 32:21 And the Lord sent an angel, which cut off all the mighty men of valour, and the leaders and captains in the camp of the king of Assyria. So he returned with shame of face to his own land. And when he was come into the house of his god, they that came forth of his own bowels slew him there with the sword.

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.—36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they PIERCED.  (Zech. 12:10)

Rev. 1:And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which PIERCED him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Deut. 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him.—  39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

New Testament

The phrase the Angel of the Lord is present 12 times in the NT.

John the Baptiste prepared the way for the Lord JESUS, who is the same LORD (Jahve) as Isaiah spoke about. 

Mal. 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

Isa. 40:The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord (Yahve) make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Mt. 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Acts. 19:Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus

Why do calvinists erroneously call all Free-willers ARMINIANS?

All arminians are free-willers, but not all free-willers are arminians

Calvinists often reveal that they have studied too much calvinism and too little from non-calvinists, by making the mistake to automatically call us arminians as soon as we tell them that we are not calvinists (and the next step is to call us semi-pelagians). Since there may be issues within arminianism (which some people call ”calvinism light”) that we disagree with, it’s wrong to automatically assume that we are arminians – because that would be like ascribing views to us that we may not have.  It’s wrong to make a person who believes in synergism an arminian by default. Strangely enough, some calvinists are reluctant to rephrase themselves even when corrected!

I still remember the first time I heard the phrase ”arminian” (it’s a word not found in the Bible), and it was the first time someone assured me that I was one! (Funny to be an arminian your whole life without even knowing it…) I had not heard of James Arminius (1560-1609) either, and compared with all the books that I’d like to read, I feel no motivation to study up on what this particular person believed and to check whether I agree with him or not. I know loads of christians in real life and online, but I only know a couple who call themselves arminians.  This tells me that arminians are very rare. There are no arminians in Sweden which I’m aware of, but I can certainly see that people constantly make free will choices in the Bible and often act against the will of God, so it’s not hard to find the concept of free will.

I can understand if people would like to call themselves calvinists if they agree with John Calvin and also believe that he was first with his doctrines/theology (even if they don’t necessarily agree with everything he taught). Calvin was the one who started calvinism, even if he got many of his ideas from Augustine. It’s also a good way to show one’s basic principles by saying one single word ”calvinist”. Calling oneself an arminian on the other hand, doesn’t make much sense if you have the same views as people who lived several hundred years before he did. (I do respect those who prefer to call themselvesarminians” – maybe for the sake of convenience when having dialogues with calvinists, or for other reasons.)

ALL the early church fathers  the first 300 years AD believed in free will without exception (see quotes here) and none of them taught that man was born with a sinful nature. This means that Mr Arminius was hardly the first person with his theology views, and it would make more sense to call oneself  after Ignatius, Justin Martyr, Clement, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Eusebius, Origen, or some other church father who lived shortly after the death of Jesus.  The disadvantage with calling oneself after a person, is that you are then expected to study the views of this person, in case someone asks you why you call yourself the way you do. If your claim is ”I call myself an irenaeusian, because I believe in free will just like he did”, then the follow-up question is why you don’t call yourself after another theologian who also believes the same. This places an unnecessary burden on you to be forced to study books outside the Bible, and it takes valuable time from Bible reading. It’s of great value to study the views from the early church fathers (or reading books from other authors) and it’s sometimes I can recommend, but it’s wrong to make it a requirement.  I personally feel no obligation to study up on what arminians believe due to the expectations from others. 

If I have an uncle who believes in free will, would it make sense to call myself after him, instead of a person who lived in the end of the 1500’s? If I lived prior to the year 1590 (when James Arminius was 30 years old and still sided with the calvininist Theodore Beza) what would I call myself?

If a person doesn’t side with Mr Brown, does it follow that he absolutely HAS TO side with Mr Green? It’s one or the other and no other options?  Let’s say that in the future a Mr White becomes a well-known christian and a man who believes in free will and who also writes famous books about it. Must I know change labels and call myself after HIM? I’m not against the idea to label oneself after a person per se, if the views in question originated with him.   

The Synod of Dort

The synod of Dort was a Dutch regional conference (with a political context) which plays a big role for calvinists, but christians believed in free will long before this local meeting as well as afterwards. This synod was not a council of the Protestant churches of Europe, but a Dutch national synod to which some Reformed theologians were invited from various parts of Europe.  It was not a free assembly for the discussion of the Bible, but a national ecclesiastical court for the trial of alleged heretics. Theodore Beza was John Calvin’s direct successor and he sent his disciple Arminius to Holland in 1589 to put down the arguments against his theology views. Beza believed that if God was absolutely sovereign and man helpless in sin and that men are saved/damned by predestination, then it followed that God causes men to sin just as he causes men to be saved. This position existed also in various degrees in Augustine and Calvin’s theology. The opponents argued that if God causes sin then God is in point of fact the author of sin. Arminius changed his position (against Beza) when starting to research the topic deeper and comparing with the Bible.

Whenever Arminius was given a chance to publicly defend his theology, his sound scholarship won the argument and nobody wanted to publicly debate against him. Nobody suggested that the Remonstrants mishandled Scripture but only that they failed to use Scripture to defend a predetermined position. Ironically nearly all of those who opposed Arminius wanted him to quit preaching the Bible as the final authority, because they felt such a message undermined their own authority. To settle this, Arminius sought after a synod to publicly debate and settle the theological and political rift that had occurred in Holland about these issues but he was denied a synod during his lifetime. Instead a synod was made after his death under conditions all together different from what he and his followers expected.  Free debate was denied and the Remonstrants were treated as criminals. They were present only as defenders, and the calvinists were the accusers, and never the other way around. Four days after the Synod’s closure, those same leaders beheaded Johan van Oldenbarnevelt for the crime of general perturbation (treason) for his support of the Remonstrants. About the synod we can read:

“Whosoever casts his eye over the list of the foreign divines that composed this last of Protestant councils will find scarcely one man who had not distinguished himself by his decided opposition to the doctrine of conditional predestination, and who was not consequently disqualified from acting the part of an impartial judge of the existing religious differences, or that of a peace-maker.”

William Birch: ”Arminianism was condemned at the Synod of Dort (1618-19). And what of it? A group of supralapsarian Calvinists joined theological and political forces, calling on foreign political allies, to ruin the reputation, ministry, and systematic theology of some theologians who disagreed with their doctrines on soteriology. And this local phenomenon is supposed to carry weight in thwarting Arminianism? History itself is a witness to the sham of an operation under which the Calvinists instigated the hearings of the Synod of Dort.”

Read more about the unfair and horrible events concerning the Synod of Dort and the aftermath here

Även ROMARBREVET 9 stödjer människans fria vilja

Romarbrevet 9 – kalvinisternas favorit

1 Jag talar sanning i Kristus, jag ljuger inte. Mitt samvete betygar det också i den helige Ande, ty jag har stor sorg och ständig vånda i mitt hjärta. Jag skulle önska att jag själv vore fördömd och skild från Kristus i mina bröders ställe – mina landsmän efter härstamning. De är israeliter, de har barnaskapet och härligheten, förbunden och lagen, tempelgudstjänsten och löftena. De har fäderna, och från dem har Kristus kommit som människa, han som är över allting, Gud, prisad i evighet, amen.

Uppenbarligen så tror inte Paulus att Gud har förutbestämt vem som ska komma till himlen respektive helvete eftersom han önskar att han vore fördömd i sina bröders ställe (judarna/israeliterna) trots att inte alla judar tror att Jesus är Messias.  Om Gud Fader inte ämnade att Jesus skulle dö för alla människor utan endast några få (de lyckligt utvalda) varför har då Paulus en önskan att dö för människor som inte ens är Jesustroende? Det vore ologiskt att dö för människor som Jesus inte var villig att dö för. Paulus verkar inte heller känna till (om han nu var en kalvinist) att saker och ting sker  exakt som Gud planerat från världens skapelse, så hans ”sorg och ständig vånda” vore helt obefogade känslor att ha inför icke utvalda judar. Varför känna sorg över att människor hamnar (himmel eller helvete) exakt där Gud vill ha dem? Paulus har ingen som helst orsak att känna sorg över människor som Gud inte känner någon sorg över.  Men tack och lov är ett ”begränsat försoningsoffer” (limited atonement) inte bibliskt!

Detta inte sagt som om Guds ord skulle ha blivit om intet. Ty Israel är inte alla som kommer från Israeloch inte heller är alla Abrahams efterkommande hans barn. Nej,Isaks efterkommande skall räknas som dina barn. Det vill säga: Guds barn är inte de som är barn genom naturlig härkomst, men löftets barn räknas som hans efterkommande.Ty ett löftesord var detta:Vid denna tid skall jag komma tillbaka, och då skall Sara ha en son.

Inte alla israeler är Abrahams barn även om de är släkt med honom genom blodet. Endast de som är ”löftets barn” räknas till hans säd och de är barn genom TRO. Abraham själv visade sin tro genom sina handlingar och han räknades som rättfärdig av det skälet. Vidare kom den utlovade Messias kom  genom hans blod, via Sara som var en fri kvinna (och inte genom Hagar som var en slavkvinna/tjänarinna och inte fri).

Gal. 3:Därför skall ni veta att de som håller sig till tron, de är Abrahams barn.Och då Skriften förutsåg att Gud skulle förklara hedningarna rättfärdiga av tro, förkunnade den i förväg detta glada budskap för Abraham: I dig skall alla folk bli välsignade.Alltså blir de som tror välsignade tillsammans med Abraham som trodde.

10 Men inte bara det, Rebecka fick två söner med en och samme man, vår fader Isak.11-12 Innan barnen ännu var födda och innan de hade gjort vare sig gott eller ont, sades det till henne: Den äldre skall tjäna den yngre. Det blev sagt för att Guds beslut att välja vem han vill skulle stå fast och inte bero på gärningar utan på honom som kallar

Det faktum att ofödda barn inte har gjort vare sig gott eller ont indikerar att läran om den syndfulla naturen inte stämmer. Bebisar är neutrala och de är inte kapabla till att synda. Vi kan läsa om VAL här men notera att det inte handlar om att utvälja individer till att TRO. Barnen det handlar om här är Jakob och Esau och de är inte bara personer utan även LÄNDER och FOLK.  God utvalde Jakob till att frambringa Messias.  Esau handlade illa med sin förstfödslorätt och trots det så förväntade han sig ändå att han skulle ha kvar den rätten just för att han var förstfödd. Jakob agerade aktivt för att få den. En likhet kan dras med judarna som förväntade sig att få rätten till Kungariket just för att de är födda till judar och är ”Guds utvalda folk”. Paulus menar att frälsningen inte fungerar på det sättet utan vi är frälsta av TRO (visat i handlingar) och att detta löfte gäller även hedningarna.

13 Det står ju skrivet: Jakob älskade jag, men Esau hatade jag.

Vers 12. Tjänade personen Esau någonsin den yngre brodern Jakob? Nej, inte vid något tillfälle tjänade han honom. Däremot så tjänade FOLKET som kom från Esau det folk som kom ifrån Jakob. Gud hade goda skäl att hata Esau både som person och som ett folk. Läs mer om Jakob och Esau här.

14 Vad skall vi då säga? Att Gud är orättfärdig? Naturligtvis inte! 15 Han säger till Mose: Jag vill vara barmhärtig mot den som jag är barmhärtig mot, och jag vill förbarma mig över den som jag förbarmar mig över. 16 Alltså beror det inte på någon människas vilja eller strävan utan på Guds barmhärtighet.

Poängen här är att Gud har all rätt i världen att utföra sin frälsningsplan på det sättet han själv finner lämplig, och han behöver inte fråga oss om lov. Judarna antog att de hade en fördel som ”Guds utvalda folk”, för att lagen gavs till dem och eftersom de är av Abrahams säd, men Paulus säger nej. Frälsningserbjudandet ges även till hedningarna och vi är inte frälsta genom att vara födda judar och/eller att följa den judiska ceremoniella lagen, utan genom tro på Jesus Kristus som dog för hela världen. Notera att det INTE står att Gud inte vill visa alla barmhärtighet. Det som står är att GUD bestämmer vem han vill visa barmhärtighet. Har Gud rätt att visa barmhärtighet på vissa VILLKOR? Ja, absolut, och det står inte helleri texten att Gud visar barmhärtighet VILLKORSLÖST. Vi vet genom andra ställen i Romarbrevet och i resten av Bibeln att vi är frälsta på villkor, och de villkoren är omvändelse och tro. Om Gud vill visa barmhärtighet och förbarmande mot dem som ödmjukat sina hjärtan –  och inte mot de som har förhärdat sina hjärtan – så har han all rätt att göra så, och han skulle inte vara orättfärdig genom en sådan handling.  Gud yttrade dessa ord (om barmhärtighet) till Moses och vi vet att Gud också hade villkor gentemot israeliterna. Han valde att inte visa barmhärtighet  mot de som gjorde uppror mot honom.

17 Skriften säger ju till farao: Just därför lät jag dig träda fram, att jag på dig skulle visa min makt och att mitt namn skulle förkunnas över hela jorden. 18 Alltså är han barmhärtig mot vem han vill och vem han vill förhärdar han.

Farao härdade sitt hjärta flera gånger innan vi kan läsa att Gud gjorde det. Gud har rätt att härda hjärtan som är ovilliga att ödmjuka sig till honom (han härdar dem ännu mer), och vi kan läsa mer om hur detta går till i Rom. 1:18:32. Läs min bloggartikel om Farao här.

19 Nu säger du kanske till mig: Varför förebrår han oss då? Vem kan stå emot hans vilja?20 Men du, människa, vem är du som går till rätta med Gud? Inte kan väl det som formas säga till den som formar det: Varför gjorde du mig sådan?

”Vem är du som går till rätta med Gud?” är frågan (eller ”vem är du som svarar tillbaka mot Gud?”). Det betyder att vi inte BORDE svara tillbaka till Gud och argumentera med honom. Har det någonsing hänt i historien att människor HAR svarat tillbaka mot Gud? JA! Det finns ofantligt många exempel på detta, och inte nog med det – det finns även änglar och människor som gjort uppror mot honom! Vill Gud att vi ska göra uppror mot honom? Självklart inte! Varje gång som människor svarar tillbaka och gör uppror mot honom så sker det EMOT hans vilja. Vi är olydiga mot Gud genom att göra uppror, så texten handlar inte om vad människor inte KAN göra utan vad de inte BORDE göra. Låt oss heller inte glömma att sammanhanget fortfarande handlar om Guds rätt att utföra sin frälsningsplan på det sätt han själv väljer – inklusive varianten att han endast frälser de som väljer att omvända sig och tro på honom. Texten säger ingenstans att Gud alltid styr våra steg eller tvingar på någon vare sig frälsning eller fördömelse. Alla har chansen att komma till honom och vi väljer själva.

21 Har inte krukmakaren den rätten över leret att av samma klump göra ett kärl för hedrande användning och ett annat för mindre hedrande? 22 Men om nu Gud, fastän han ville visa sin vrede och göra sin makt känd, ändå med stort tålamod hade haft fördrag med vredens kärl, som var färdiga att förstöras, vad har du då att säga? 23 Och om han gjorde detta för att göra sin härlighets rikedom känd på barmhärtighetens kärl, som han i förväg har berett för härligheten? 24 Det är ju oss han har kallat, och det inte endast från judarna utan också från hednafolken.

Sammanhanget är fortfarande att frälsningserbjudandet även gäller hedningarna. Vi kan läsa att Gud skulle kunna välja att ” med stort tålamod” ha ”fördrag” med vredens kärl. Varför kan vi läsa ordval som att ha ”fördrag” och ”med stort tålamod” som om kärlen hade en egen vilja och var motsträviga mot Gud? Om Gud förutbestämmer allt som sker så borde han väl se till att saker och ting sker utan krångel och utan att behöva visa fördrag och tålamod? Vi kan även läsa nedan att vi förväntas rena oss själva, och om vi väljer den vägen så kan vi bli kärl till heder. Om vi förhäver oss mot Gud och gör det svårt för honom att forma oss till det han vill så är vi kärl som är färdiga att förstöras (vi orsakar själva att vi är kärl färdiga att förstöras). Vår rättmätiga plats är då på soptippen, MEN för vår skulle så kan Gud alltså visa fördrag med oss med stort tålamod. Vilka kärl är det som blir till heder? Skulle det kunna vara de som omvänder sig och som är villiga att ödmjuka sig? Vilka kärl är de som är färdiga att förstöras? Skulle det kunna vara de som har rebelliska hjärtan och ovilliga att låta sig formas? Kärlen som är villiga att omforma sig efter Guds vilja är desamma som barmhärtighetens kärl, och de är i förväg bestämda att träda in i hans härlighet. Det är upp till oss att rena oss själva så att vi kan bli det som Gud vill och tillhöra dessa kärl, och då kommer de underbara löftena att gälla oss.

2 Tim 2: 20 Men i ett stort hus finns det kärl inte bara av guld och silver utan också kärl av trä och lera, några till heder, andra till vanheder. 21 Den som därför renar sig och håller sig borta från dessa blir ett kärl till heder, helgat, användbart för sin herre och förberett för allt gott arbete.

Jer 18: Då gick jag ner till krukmakarens hus och såg att han arbetade på drejskivan. Och kärlet som han höll på att göra av leran misslyckades i hans hand. Då började han om och gjorde av leran ett annat kärl så som han ville ha det.

Läs min bloggartikel om krukmakaren och leran här

25 Så säger han genom Hosea: Det folk som inte var mitt skall jag kalla mitt folk, och henne som jag inte älskade skall jag kalla min älskade.26 Och på den plats där det sades till dem: Ni är inte mitt folk, där skall de kallas den levande Gudens barn 27 Men om Israel utropar Jesaja: Om än Israels barn vore talrika som havets sand, skall bara en rest bli frälst.28 Ty snabbt och slutgiltigt skall Herren hålla räkenskap på jorden.29 Jesaja har också förutsagt: Om Herren Sebaot inte hade lämnat kvar några efterkommande åt oss, då hade vi blivit som Sodom, då hade vi blivit som Gomorra.30 Vad skall vi då säga? Jo, att hedningarna, som inte strävade efter rättfärdighet, vann rättfärdigheten, den rättfärdighet som kommer av tro31 Israel däremot, som strävade efter att uppfylla den lag som ger rättfärdighet, har inte nått fram till den lagen32 Varför? Därför att de inte sökte rättfärdigheten av tro, utan tänkte sig kunna vinna rättfärdigheten genom gärningar. De har snubblat på stötestenen, 33 så som det står skrivet: Se, jag lägger i Sion en stötesten och en klippa till fall. Men den som tror på honom skall inte stå där med skam.

Här kan vi se grunden till problemet. Stötestenen som judarna snubblade på och som kan separera dem från Gud är JESUS KRISTUS. Judarna riskerade att missa Guds frälsningsplan genom att fortsätta att förneka Messias, och detta är vad som ger Paulus sorg.  Villkoret för frälsningen är tro på Jesus och detta kan mycket väl innebära, till judarnas förvåning, att exkludera just judar och i stället inkludera hedningar. Judarna antog att de var Guds egendomsfolks och att frälsningen var begränsad till dem. Ovan kan vi se att tro måste föregå frälsning och är ett villkor för frälsningen.  Judarna, Guds utvalda, sökte att få frälsning genom lagen snarare än genom tro.  Det står ingenting här om att Gud väljer ut vem som ska ha tro och bli frälst utan bara om nödvändigheten att människorna har tro. Det spelar ingen roll om du är jude eller grek , för Gud har valt att rädda var och en som tror på Jesus.  Tror vi på Jesus så älskar vi honom, och älskar vi honom så lyder vi honom. På det sättet kan vi se om vi är Guds barn. Det är visserligen inget krav att lyda judarnas ceremoniella lagar men självfallet är vi aldrig någonsin befriade från att lyda den moraliska lagen som är tio Guds bud. 

Romans 10:12 Det är ingen skillnad mellan jude och grek. Alla har en och samme Herre, och han ger sina rikedomar åt alla som åkallar honom. 13 Ty var och en som åkallar Herrens namn skall bli frälst.

Romans 11: 32 Ty Gud har gjort alla till fångar under olydnaden för att sedan förbarma sig över alla.

Why did God create us, despite knowing we would mess up?

A parable about a party invitation for ALL

Some christians feel it’s strange that God would let his son die for people He knows ahead of time will never believe in him, and that’s why they prefer to believe that Jesus only died for SOME people who will DEFINITELY be saved because they are specifically PRE-CHOSEN to be the lucky ELECT. But I don’t find dying for ALL people despite knowing the risks/results involved is a paradox at all. What about those who DO choose to believe in him? They will be heirs to the kingdom, and the thing is that ALL are given this opportunity so no one is left out or is unfairly treated. God is totally fair and merciful to all!

Most young couples are aware of the risk that some of their future children might not turn out as obedient and morally upright human beings,  but they are willing to take this risk since children (and not robots) are a great blessing and a good company. Even if a married couple would be told that two of their ten not yet born children will end up as unbelievers, they will likely decide to have their children anyway. At least THEY (the parents) don’t force their children to become unbelievers. They might bring them up in a wonderful christian home and teach them all things about Christ and the Bible and how to be good moral people. If they still one day reject this teaching and become wicked individuals, then THEY (the children) are to be blamed and not the parents.

(We also have ”Open theism” as a possible factor, where God indeed knows ”all things” but only what is ”knowable”. Read more here. )

I’d like to compare God’s salvation offer to everyone with a party invitation even if it’s not a perfect analogy.

Let’s say I decide to have a party in my house. Of course I’m entitled to set up the rules and conditions myself, and I don’t need to ask anyone for advice or permission how to run things since I’m ”sovereign” over my own house  (sovereign is a word which is not in the KJV Bible but still…). I decide to invite EVERYONE in my entire neighborhood, and to use a RSVP (respondez s’il vous plait) on my invitation cards. I also PROMOTE my party and tell everyone that they would miss out big time if they will not come. My party is totally free of any costs, but I still have conditions. The following conditions/restrictions apply:

  • Had I not decided to have this party, there would not be a party. I personally initiated a ”drawing” or ”calling”.
  • All are invited but ONLY those who REPLY as per the RSVP may actually come
  • And out of those who reply affirmatively as per the RVSP, only those who SHOW UP at my party will be let in!
  • And those who have replied affirmatively and showed up must also be acceptably DRESSED to be let in.

(Maybe I could add that they must also BEHAVE during the entire duration of the party so they won’t disturb and ruin the party for the others, but when we will end up at the big wedding party in heaven all troublemakers will already be sorted out. It’s a good thing that ”sinners” are not welcomed to the big wedding party or else it would not be a pleasant time for the others.)

Even though I have all those conditions, the party is still totally FREE OF CHARGE. The guests could not do anything themselves to be invited to my party. Nothing we believe or do can ever merit salvation. We don’t deserve to be saved, but our Lord has enabled salvation to all of us in our totally lost state.

I could of course have arranged things differently…

I could make personal  invitations to CERTAIN people in my neighborhood and FORCE them to come to my party which I make MANDATORY for those I invite. I could also REFUSE to allow anyone else to come to my party EVEN THOUGH I have PLENTY OF ROOM, food, beverages, entertainment, etc for EVERYONE in the entire neighborhood.

The thing is though that I PREFER to invite ALL and to let THEM make up their mind if they want to come or not.  That means that whosoever wills can come and it would bring me much happiness to know that people have used their own minds when accepting my invitation. I would not feel good about having people around me who have no other choice but to be there whether they like to or not. God has created us in his image, and we are able to reason and make options depending on various circumstances.  God has also created LIMITATIONS to our free will. We simply can’t fly to March and back just because we have this desire and will. 

Is my party a total failure because all who were invited did not come? Can we say I was totally helpless and in the hands of the people I invited? Did someone make the rules instead of me? Did someone thwart my plans? Did I lose control? Did something happen unexpectedly which I didn’t think of? Did I not calculate the risks properly? Did I treat someone unfairly? Am I a wicked person because I did not force people to come? Should we feel sorry for those who did not come despite that they knew the truth about it? Am I illogical in my behavior? Did I at any time resort to Plan B?

Of course not! We would all have a great time at my party, and I would feel good about knowing that I made sure that ALL had a fair chance to come. I wouldn’t even want people at my party unless THEY had a sincere desire to come and to get to know me.Why is it out of the question that our sovereign Lord created us with the ability to accept/reject him and obey/disobey?

Compare also with the analogy of the wedding party in Matthew 22. Note that those who were bidden to come chose to NOT come, and those who did choose to come were called ”chosen”. Notice that no one is forced to do anything. Both good and bad were called but they were all required to wear WEDDING CLOTHES in order to be acceptable to the wedding party. We must repent from our sins and be holy and righteous and dressed in white undefiled garments. 

1. And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,And sent forth his servants TO CALL THEM THAT WERE BIDDEN to the wedding: and they would not come.Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.14 For many are called, but few are chosen. 

Quotes from old church fathers, supporting Free will and objecting to the Sinful nature

Church fathers before Augustine entered the scene …

The first 300 years AD we had a complete agreement among the early church fathers that man has a free will, that we are not ”once saved always saved” and that we were not born with some kind of sinful nature which is holding us back to depravity and inability to seek and find God. Are we to believe those years were full of darkness before Augustine entered the scene (354 -430 AD) to finally give us light? The only ones who taught against free will were the gnostics.  All of the early church up to the time of Augustine was unanimous in their belief and understanding of the nature of sin being that of choice.

”Gnostics also believed that mankind was wholly evil and some sects even renounced marriage and procreation. They also believed in two gods, one evil god and one good god. Their teachings are believed to have influenced Saint Augustine in the development of his theology of ”total depravity” of mankind and concept of God. For nine years St. Augustine adhered to Manichaeism, a Persian philosophy proclaimed in southern Babylonia (Iraq) that taught a doctrine of ”total depravity” and the claim that they were the ”elect.” He then turned to skepticism. Next, Augustine was attracted to the philosophy of Neoplatonism. He blended these beliefs with his later Gnostic Christian teachings. His teachings were in turn passed on to John Calvin in his extensive study of Augustine’s writings. It is very easy to follow the trail of John Calvin’s theology from the pagan religion of Mani in Babylonia to his writings in France and Geneva”  Read more here

Unfortunately this new teaching (well, not really new since the gnostics taught it before Augustine, and he was a former gnostic) lead to many consequences:

  • If we sin, it’s not our fault because our sin nature made us  do it. We are victims – not guilty.
  • A life change is not essential for salvation.  We are not perfect, just forgiven.
  • Jesus was born without sin and therefore different from us and had an unfair advantage. He couldn’t sin and we can’t help but sin. This minimizes what Jesus did for us.

”I read through most of the early Church writings and gathered the quotes personally – to be sure to understand the context and to no miss things. But it is amazing to me that I seem to find more quotes I did not have all the time. It is amazing how much the Early Church was against TULIP! —they [the reformed] refuse to acknowledge it, or must assume that the Early Church fell from the truth taught to them by the Apostles immediately after the Apostles died.” (Lyndon Conn)

It is of course possible to take quotes out of a context and make them sound like a person has views he in fact does not have, but that would be nothing but deceptive. A more honest approach would be to quote someone’s clear and general views instead of trying to find some odd quotes out of context. With or without a broader context, the old church fathers DID hold to the views the quotes clearly revealed. I have seen some attempts where reformed thinkers have listed quotes from early church fathers with the aim to show that they spoke against free will, but after having read the quotes 1) most often the quotes actually do not say what they claim they say and 2) if the context and other writings from the same person end up with him having contradictory views, something is clearly wrong. 

Tertullian (Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus) 160-225 AD

Apologist and a polemicist against heresy. He is perhaps most famous for being the oldest extant Latin writer to use the term TrinityCyprian’s teacher.

I find, then, that man was constituted free by God. He was master of his own will and powerFor a law would not be imposed upon one who did not have it in his power to render that obedience which is due to law. Nor again, would the penalty of death be threatened against sin, if a contempt of the law were impossible to man in the liberty of his will…Man is free, with a will either for obedience of resistance. (c. 207, Vol. 3, pp. 300-301)

No reward can be justly bestowed, no punishment can be justly inflicted, upon him who is good or bad by necessity, and not by his own choice.  (c. 207) (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, p. 61, published by Truth in Heart)

Some people act as though God were under an obligation to bestow even on the unworthy His intended gift. They turn His liberality into slavery…. For do not many afterwards fall out of grace? Is not this gift taken away from many? (Tertullian On Repentance chap. 6.)

The world returned to sin…and so it is destined to fire. So is the man who after baptism renews his sins.  c.197

However, in the case of little children…Let them “come,” then, while they are growing up; let them “come” while they are learning, whither to come; let them become Christians when they have become able to know Christ. Why does the innocent period of life hasten to the “remission of sins? ”…If any understand the weighty import of baptism, they will fear its reception more than its delay.

Irenaeus of Lyons, 120-202 AD

The Apostle John had a disciple named Polycarp, and Polycarp had a disciple named Irenaeus.

Below from (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 4, chapter 37, paragraphs 1 – 7)

1. This expression [of our Lord], ‘How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldest not,’ set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul, to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves. On the other hand, they who have not obeyed shall, with justice, be not found in possession of the good, and shall receive condign punishment: for God did kindly bestow on them what was good; but they themselves did not diligently keep it, nor deem it something precious, but poured contempt upon His super-eminent goodness. Rejecting therefore the good, and as it were spewing it out, they shall all deservedly incur the just judgment of God, which also the Apostle Paul testifies in his Epistle to the Romans, where he says, ‘But dost thou despise the riches of His goodness, and patience, and long-suffering, being ignorant that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest to thyself wrath against the day of wrath, and the revelation of the righteous judgment of God.’ ‘But glory and honour,’ he says, ‘to every one that doeth good.’ God therefore has given that which is good, as the apostle tells us in this Epistle, and they who work it shall receive glory and honour, because they have done that which is good when they had it in their power not to do it; but those who do it not shall receive the just judgment of God, because they did not work good when they had it in their power so to do.

2. But if some had been made by nature bad, and others good, these latter would not be deserving of praise for being good, for such were they created; nor would the former be reprehensible, for thus they were made [originally]. But since all men are of the same nature, able both to hold fast and to do what is good; and, on the other hand, having also the power to cast it from them and not to do it,--some do justly receive praise even among men who are under the control of good laws (and much more from God), and obtain deserved testimony of their choice of good in general, and of persevering therein; but the others are blamed, and receive a just condemnation, because of their rejection of what is fair and good. And therefore the prophets used to exhort men to what was good, to act justly and to work righteousness, as I have so largely demonstrated, because it is in our power so to do, and because by excessive negligence we might become forgetful, and thus stand in need of that good counsel which the good God has given us to know by means of the prophets.

3.  — Blessed is that servant whom his Lord, when He cometh, shall find so doing.’ And  again, ‘The servant who knows his Lord’s will, and does it not, shall be beaten with many stripes.’ And, ‘Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?’ And again, ‘But if the servant say in his heart, The Lord delayeth, and begin to beat his fellow-servants, and to eat, and drink, and to be drunken, his Lord will come in a day on which he does not expect Him, and shall cut him in sunder, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites.’ All such passages demonstrate the independent will of man, and at the same time the counsel which God conveys to him, by which He exhorts us to submit ourselves to Him, and seeks to turn us away from [the sin of] unbelief against Him, without, however, in any way coercing us.

4. No doubt, if any one is unwilling to follow the Gospel itself, it is in his power [to reject it], but it is not expedient. For it is in man’s power to disobey God, and to forfeit what is good; but [such conduct] brings no small amount of injury and mischief. And on this account Paul says, ‘All things are lawful to me, but all things are not expedient;’ referring both to the liberty of man, in which respect ‘all things are lawful,’ God exercising no compulsion in regard to him; and [by the expression] ‘not expedient’ pointing out that we ‘should not use our liberty as a cloak of maliciousness,’ for this is not expedient. And again he says, ‘Speak ye every man truth with his neighbour.’ And, ‘Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor scurrility, which are not convenient, but rather giving of thanks.’ [4406] And, ‘For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord; walk honestly as children of the light, not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in anger and jealousy. And such were some of you; but ye have been washed, but ye have been sanctified in the name of our Lord.’ If then it were not in our power to do or not to do these things, what reason had the apostle, and much more the Lord Himself, to give us counsel to do some things, and to abstain from others? But because man is possessed of free will from the beginning, and God is possessed of free will, in whose likeness man was created, advice is always given to him to keep fast the good, which thing is done by means of obedience to God.

‘5. And not merely in works, but also in faith, has God preserved the will of man free and under his own control, saying, ‘According to thy faith be it unto thee;’ thus showing that there is a faith specially belonging to man, since he has an opinion specially his own. And again, ‘All things are possible to him that believeth;’ and, ‘Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee.’ Now all such expressions demonstrate that man is in his own power with respect to faith. And for this reason, ‘he that believeth in Him has eternal life while he who believeth not the Son hath not eternal life, but the wrath of God shall remain upon him.’ In the same manner therefore the Lord, both showing His own goodness, and indicating that man is in his own free will and his own power, said to Jerusalem, ‘How often have I wished to gather thy children together, as a hen [gathereth] her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Wherefore your house shall be left unto you desolate.’

6. Those, again, who maintain the opposite to these [conclusions], do themselves present the Lord as destitute of power, as if, forsooth, He were unable to accomplish what He willed; or, on the other hand, as being ignorant that they were by nature ‘material,’ as these men express it, and such as cannot receive His immortality. ‘But He should not,’ say they, ‘have created angels of such a nature that they were capable of transgression, nor men who immediately proved ungrateful towards Him; for they were made rational beings, endowed with the power of examining and judging, and were not [formed] as things irrational or of a [merely] animal nature, which can do nothing of their own will, but are drawn by necessity and compulsion to what is good, in which things there is one mind and one usage, working mechanically in one groove (inflexibiles et sine judicio), who are incapable of being anything else except just what they had been created.’ But upon this supposition, neither would what is good be grateful to them, nor communion with God be precious, nor would the good be very much to be sought after, which would present itself without their own proper endeavour, care, or study, but would be implanted of its own accord and without their concern. Thus it would come to pass, that their being good would be of no consequence, because they were so by nature rather than by will, and are possessors of good spontaneously, not by choice; and for this reason they would not understand this fact, that good is a comely thing, nor would they take pleasure in it. For how can those who are ignorant of good enjoy it? Or what credit is it to those who have not aimed at it? And what crown is it to those who have not followed in pursuit of it, like those victorious in the contest?

In short:

This expression, ‘How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldst not,’ set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free (agent) from the beginning, possessing his own soul to obey the behests of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will (toward us) is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves…  (c. 180, Against Heresies 37; God’s Strategy In Human History, p. 246)

”Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good deeds”…And ”Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not do the things that I say?’…All such passages demonstrate the independent will of manFor it is in man’s power to disobey God and to forfeit what is good.” (c.180, Vol. 1, p. 519)

Nor, again, does God exercise compulsion upon anyone unwilling to accept the exercise of His skill…. They have been created free agents and possessed of power over themselves. (c. 180, Vol. 1, p. 523)  

Ignatius, 35-107 AD Bishop of Antioch in Syria. Ignatius was a disciple of the Apostle John and appointed as Bishop of Antioch by the Apostle Peter.

And pray ye also without ceasing for the rest of mankind (for there is in them a hope of repentance), that they may find God. Therefore permit them to take lessons at least from your works. (Letter to the Ephesians 10:1)

Do not err, my brothers. Those that corrupt families shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If, then, those who do this in regard to the flesh have suffered death, how much more shall this be the case with anyone who corrupts the faith of God, for which Jesus Christ was crucified, by wicked doctrine? Such a person, becoming defiled, shall go away into everlasting fire and so shall everyone that listens to him. (Letter to the Ephesians 16)

I do not mean to say that there are two different human natures, but all humanity is made the same, sometimes belonging to God and sometimes to the devil. If anyone is truly spiritual they are a person of God; but if they are irreligious and not spiritual then they are a person of the devil, made such not by nature, but by their own choice. Pg.61 vol. 1.

There is set before us life upon our observance [of God’s precepts], but death as the result of disobedience, and every one, according to the choice he makes, shall go to his own place, let us flee from death, and make choice of life. (The epistle of Ignatius, ch. 5, p. 27)

Clement of Alexandria (Titus Flavius Clemens) 150–215 AD

A theologian who taught at the Catechetical School of Alexandria. Among his pupils were Origen and Alexander of Jerusalem.

We…have believed and are saved by voluntary choice (c. 195, Vol. 2, p. 217)

To obey or not is in our own power, provided we do not have the excuse of ignorance (c. 195, Vol. 2, p. 353)

Each one of us who sins with his own free will, chooses punishment. So the blame lies with him who chooses. God is without blame. (c.195, Vol. 2, p. 226)

Neither promises nor apprehensions, rewards, no punishments are just if the soul has not the power of choosing and abstaining; if evil is involuntary. (c. 195, Vol. 2, p.319)

We have heard from the Scriptures that self-determining choice and refusal have been given by the Lord to men. Therefore, we rest in the infallible criterion of faith, manifesting a willing spirit, since we have chosen life. (c. 195, Vol. 2, p. 349)

The Lord clearly shows sins and transgressions to be in our own power, by prescribing modes of cure corresponding to the maladies. (c. 195, Vol. 2, p. 363)

Their estrangement is the result of free choice. (c. 195, Vol. 2, p. 426)

Believing and obeying are in our own power. (c. 195, Vol. 2, p. 527)

Nor will he who is saved be saved against his will, for he is not inanimate. But above all, he will speed to salvation voluntarily and of free choice. (c. 195, Vol. 2, p. 534)

Choice depends on the man as being free. But the gift depended on God as the Lord. And He gives to those who are willing, are exceedingly earnest, and who ask. In this manner, their salvation can become their own. For God does not compel. (c. 195, Vol. 2, p. 593)

Clement, 80-140 AD 

The first Apostolic Father of the Church.  According to Tertullian, Clement was consecrated by Saint Peter. Early church lists place him as the second or third bishop of Rome after Saint Peter. In Philippians 4:3 Clement is mentioned whose name was written “in the book of life”. Although known as 2 Clement, this document is in actuality an anonymous homily of the mid-second century.

Thus although we are born neither good nor bad, we become on or the other and having formed habits, we are with difficulty drawn from them. Pg 273 vol.8

But inasmuch as inborn affection towards God the creator is sufficient for salvation to those who love Him, the enemy tries to pervert this affection in men, and to render them hostile and ungrateful to their Creator…But if mankind would turn their affection towards God, all would doubtless be saved, even if when they have some faults they would be open to correction for righteousness, but now most of mankind have been made enemies of God, their hearts the wicked one has entered, and has turned aside towards himself the affection which God the Creator had implanted in them, which He, God, desires that they might have towards Him. Pg.101 Vol.8

1 Clement 7:4 Let us fix our eyes on the blood of Christ and understand how precious it is unto His Father, because being shed for our salvation it won for the whole world the grace of repentance.

1 Clement 7:5 Let us review all the generations in turn, and learn how from generation to generation the Master hath given a place for repentance unto them that desire to turn to Him.

For, if we do the will of Christ, we shall find rest; but if otherwise, then nothing shall deliver us from eternal punishment, if we should disobey His commandments. 2 Clement 6:7

…with what confidence shall we, if we keep not our baptism pure and undefiled, enter into the kingdom of God? Or who shall be our advocate, unless we be found having holy and righteous works? 2 Clement 6:9

For as concerning them that have not kept the seal, He saith, `Their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be for a spectacle unto all flesh’. 2 Clement 7:6

So, brothers and sisters, if we have done the will of the Father and have kept the flesh pure and have observed the commandments of the Lord, we will receive eternal life (2 Clement 8:4)

So then He meaneth this, Keep the flesh pure and the seal unstained, to the end that we may receive life. 2 Clement 8:6  

Let us, then, not only call him Lord, for that will not save us. For he says, ”Not every one that says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall be saved, but he that does righteousness.” Therefore, brothers, let us confess him by our works, by loving one another, by not committing adultery, speaking evil of one another, or cherishing envy; but being continent, compassionate, and good. … By such works let us confess him, and not by those that are of an opposite kind. It is not fitting that we should fear men, but rather God. For this reason, if we should do such wicked things, the Lord has said, “Even if you were gathered together to me, into my very bosom, yet if you were not to keep my commandments, I would cast you off and say to you, ‘Depart from me … you workers of iniquity.‘” (2 Clement 4) Hermas, c. A.D. 160

It is therefore in the power of every one, since man has been made possessed of free-will, whether he shall hear us to life, or the demons to destruction. 

He who is good by his own choice is really good; but he who is made good by another under necessity is not really good, because he is not what he is by his own choice… 

For no other reason does God punish the sinner either in the present or in the future world, except because He knows that the sinner was able to conquer but neglected to gain the victory.

Justin Martyr, 110-165 AD

Note that ”foreknowing” concerns knowing something ahead of time, rather than predestining/forcing something to occur.

For He foreknows that some are to be saved by repentance, some even that are perhaps not yet born. In the beginning He made the human race with the power of thought and of choosing the truth and doing right, so that all men are without excuse before God; for they have been born rational and contemplative. And if any one disbelieves that God cares for these things, he will thereby either insinuate that God does not exist, or he will assert that though He exists He delights in vice, or exists like a stone, and that neither virtue nor vice are anything, but only in the opinion of men these things are reckoned good or evil. And this is the greatest profanity and wickedness. (Chapter 28 of Justin’s 1st Apology).

For as in the beginning He created us when we were not, so do we consider that, in like manner, those who choose what is pleasing to Him are, on account of their choice, deemed worthy of incorruption and of fellowship with Him. For the coming into being at first was not in our own power; and in order that we may follow those things which please Him, choosing them by means of the rational faculties He has Himself endowed us with, He both persuades us and leads us to faith. (Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.165)

In the beginning He made the human race with the power of thought and of choosing the truth and doing right, so that all men are without excuse before God; for they have been born rational and contemplative. (Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.172)

Let some suppose, from what has been said by us, that we say that whatever occurs happens by a fatal necessity, because it is foretold as known beforehand, this too we explain. We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and good rewards, are rendered according to THE MERIT OF EACH MAN’S ACTIONS. Now, if this is not so, but all things happen by fate, then neither is anything at all in our own power. For if it is predetermined that this man will be good, and this other man will be evil, neither is the first one meritorious nor the latter man to be blamed. And again, unless the human race has the power of avoiding evil and CHOOSING GOOD BY FREE CHOICE, they are not accountable for their actions (Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg. 177)

For not like other things, as trees and quadrupeds, which cannot act by choice, did God make man: for neither would he be worthy of reward or praise did he not of himself choose the good, but were created for this end; nor, if he were evil, would he be worthy of punishment, not being evil of himself, but being able to be nothing else than what he was made. (Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.177)

But neither do we affirm that it is by fate that men do what they do, or suffer what they suffer, but that each man by free choice acts rightly or sins; and that it is by the influence of the wicked demons that earnest men, such as Socrates and the like, suffer persecution and are in bonds. (Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.190)

But since God in the beginning made the race of angels and men with free-will, they will justly suffer in eternal fire the punishment of whatever sins they have committed. And this is the nature of all that is made, to be capable of vice and virtue. For neither would any of them be praiseworthy unless there were power to turn to both [virtue and vice]. (Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.190)

For God, wishing both angels and men, who were endowed with freewill, and at their own disposal, to do whatever He had strengthened each to do, made them so, that if they chose the things acceptable to Himself, He would keep them free from death and from punishment; but that if they did evil, He would punish each as He sees fit. (Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.243)

Methodius (Bishop of Olympus) 260-312 AD

Now those [pagans] who decide that man is not possessed of free will, and affirm that he is governed by the unavoidable necessities of fate…are guilty of impiety toward God Himself, making Him out to be the cause or author of human evils. (c. 190, The Banquet of the Ten Virgins 16; God’s Strategy In Human History, p. 252)

I say that God – purposing to honor man in this manner and to grant him an understanding of better things – has given man the power of being able to do what he wishes. He commends the use of his power for better things. However, it is not that God deprives man again of free will. Rather, He wishes to point out the better way. For the power is present with man, and he receives the commandment. But God exhorts him to turn his power of choice to better things. (c. 290, Vol. 6, p. 362)

I do not think that God urges man to obey His commandments, but then deprives him of the power to obey or disobey…. He does not give a command in order to take way the power that he has given. Rather, He gives it in order to bestow a better gift…in return for his rendered obedience to God. For man had power to withhold it. I say that man was made with free will. (c. 290, Vol. 6, p. 362)

God is good and wise. He does what is best. Therefore, there is no fixed destiny.” (c. 190, Vol. 6, p.343)

From Methodius writing ”Concerning free will”:

For a man is evil in consequence of his actions. For he is said to be evil, because he is the doer of evil. Now what a man does, is not the man himself, but his activity, and it is from his actions that he receives the title of evil. For if we were to say that he is that which he does, and he commits murders, adulteries, and such-like, he will be all these. Now if he is these, then when they are produced he has an existence, but when they are not, he too ceases to be. Now these things are produced by men. Men then will be the authors of them, and the causes of their existing or not existing. But if each man is evil in consequence of what he practises, and what he practises has an origin, he also made a beginning in evil, and evil too had a beginning. Now if this is the case, no one is without a beginning in evil, nor are evil things without an origin.

Because there is nothing evil by nature, but it is by use that evil things become such. So I say, says he, that man was made with a free-will, not as if there were already evil in existence, which he had the power of choosing if he wished, but on account of his capacity of obeying or disobeying God.

For this was the meaning of the gift of Free Will. And man after his creation receives a commandment from God; and from this at once rises evil, for he does not obey the divine command; and this alone is evil, namely, disobedience, which had a beginning.

For man received power, and enslaved himself, not because he was overpowered by the irresistible tendencies of his nature, nor because the capacity with which he was gifted deprived him of what was better for him; for it was for the sake of this that I say he was endowed with it (but he received the power above mentioned), in order that he may obtain an addition to what he already possesses, which accrues to him from the Superior Being in consequence of his obedience, and is demanded as a debt from his Maker. For I say that man was made not for destruction, but for better things. For if he were made as any of the elements, or those things which render a similar service to God, he would cease to receive a reward befitting deliberate choice, and would be like an instrument of the maker; and it would be unreasonable for him to suffer blame for his wrong-doings, for the real author of them is the one by whom he is used. But man did not understand better things, since he did not know the author (of his existence), but only the object for which he was made. I say therefore that God, purposing thus to honour man, and to grant him an understanding of better things, has given him the power of being able to do what he wishes, and commends the employment of his power for better things; not that He deprives him again of free-will, but wishes to deprives him again of free-will, but wishes to point out the better way. For the power is present with him, and he receives the commandment; but God exhorts him to turn his power of choice to better things. For as a father exhorts his son, who has power to learn his lessons, to give more attention to them inasmuch as, while he points out this as the better course, he does not deprive his son of the power which he possessed, even if he be not inclined to learn willingly; so I do not think that God, while He urges on man to obey His commands, deprives him of the power of purposing and withholding obedience. For He points out the cause of His giving this advice, in that He does not deprive him of the power. But He gives commands, in order that man may be able to enjoy better things. For this is the consequence of obeying the commands of God. So that He does not give commands in order to take away the power which He has given, but in order that a better gift may be bestowed, as to one worthy of attaining greater things, in return for his having rendered obedience to God, while he had power to withhold it. I say that man was made with free-will, not as if there were already existing same evil, which he had the power of choosing if he wished, … but that the power of obeying and disobeying God is the only cause. For this was the object to be obtained by free-will. And man after his creation receives a commandment from God, and from this at once rises evil; for he does not obey the divine command, and this alone is evil, namely, disobedience, which had a beginning. For no one has it in his power to say that it is without an origin, when its author had an origin. But you will be sure to ask whence arose this disobedience. It is clearly recorded in Holy Scripture, by which I am enabled to say that man was not made by God in this condition, but that he has come to it by some teaching. For man did not receive such a nature as this. For if it were the case that his nature was such, this would not have come upon him by teaching. Now one says in Holy Writ, that man has learned (evil). Jeremiah 13:23 I say, then, that disobedience to God is taught. For this alone is evil which is produced in opposition to the purpose of God, for man would not learn evil by itself. He, then, who teaches evil is the Serpent.

For my part, I said that the beginning of evil was envy, and that it arose from man’s being distinguished by God with higher honour. Now evil is disobedience to the commandment of God.”.

Arnobius, 297-303 AD

Does He not free all alike who invites all alike? Or does He thrust back or repel any one from the kindness of the supreme, who gives to all alike the power of coming to Him. To all, He says, the fountain of like is open, and no one is kept back or hindered from drinking. If you are so fastidious as to spurn the kindly offered gift… why should he keep on inviting you, while His only duty is to make the enjoyment of His bounty depend on your own free choice. Book 2 ,64

Aristides of Athens (Marcianus Aristides) 134 AD

And when a child has been born to one of them, they give thanks to God, and if furthermore, it happen to die in childhood, they give thanks to God the more, as for one who has passed through the world without sins. Apology to Hadrian

Tatian the Syrian, 110-172 AD

Our free will has destroyed us. We who were free have become slaves. We have been sold through sin. Nothing evil has been created by God. We ourselves have manifested wickedness. But we, who have manifested it, are able to reject it again.” (c. 160, Vol. 2, pp. 69-70)

Each of these two orders of creatures [men and angels] was made free to act as it pleased. They did not have the nature of good, which again is with God alone. However, it is brought to perfection in men through their freedom of choice. In this manner, the bad man can be justly punished, having become depraved through his own fault. Likewise, the just man can be deservedly praised for his virtuous deeds, since in the exercise of his free choice, he refrained from transgressing the will of God. (c. 160, Vol. 2, p. 67)

Lactantius, 260-330 AD

We should be free from vices and sin. For no one is born sinful, but if our affections are given to that direction they can become vices and sinful, but if we use our affections well they become virtues.’ Ch16 bk 4 Divine Inst.

Melito (Bishop of Sardis near Smyrna) 80 AD

There is, therefore, nothing to hinder you from changing your evil manner to life, because you are a free man. (c.170, Vol. 8, p. 754)

St. Cyril of Jerusalem, 312–386 AD

The soul is self-governed: and though the devil can suggest, he has not the power to compel against the will. He pictures to you the thought of fornication: if you will, you accept it; if you will not, you reject. For if you were a fornicator by necessity, then for what cause did God prepare hell?If you were a doer of righteousness by nature and not by will, wherefore did God prepare crowns of ineffable glory? The sheep is gentle, but never was it crowned for its gentleness: since its gentle quality belongs to it not from choice but by nature. (Catechetical Lectures IV)

 Athenagorus, 133-190 AD

Just as with men who have freedom of choice as to bother virtue and vice (for you would not either honor the good or punish the bad; unless vice and virtue were in their own power, and some are diligent in the matters entrusted to them and others faithless), so is it among the angels. (c. 177, Embassy for Christians; God’s Strategy in Human History, p. 247)

Theophilus

If, on the other hand, he would turn to the things of death, disobeying God, he would himself be the cause of death to himself. For God made man free, and with power of himself. (c.180, Vol. 2, p. 105)

Hyppolytus, 170 – 235 AD

God, who created [the world], did not nor does not, make evil….Now, man (who was brought into existence) was a creature endowed with a capacity of self-determination, yet he did not possess a sovereign intellect….Man, from the fact of his possessing a capacity for self-determination, brings forth evil….Since man has free will, a law has been given him by God, for a good purpose. For a law will not be laid down for an animal devoid of reason. Only a bridle and whip will be given it. In contrast, man has been given a commandment to perform, coupled with a penalty.” (c. 225, Vol. 5, p.151)

The Word promulgated the divine commandments by declaring them. He thereby turned man from disobedience. He summoned man to liberty through a choice involving spontaneity – not by bringing him into servitude by force of necessity. (c. 225, Vol. 5, p. 152)

Man is able to both will and not to will. He is endowed with power to do both. (c. 225, Vol. 5, p. 152)

Origen (Adamantius) 184/185 – 253/254 AD

The soul does not incline to either part out of necessity, for then neither vice nor virtue could be ascribed to it; nor would its choice of virtue deserve reward; nor its declination to vice punishment.” Again, “How could God require that of man which he [man] had not power to offer Him?” (Doctrine of the Will by Asa Mahan, p. 62, published by Truth in Heart)

This is also clearly defined in the teaching of the church, that every rational soul has free will and volition….we are not forced by any necessity to act either rightly or wrongly. (c. 225, Vol. 4, p. 240)

It seems a plausible thing that rational natures, from whom the faculty of free will is never taken away, may be again subjected to movements of some kind. (c. 225, Vol. 4, p. 272)

Since those rational creatures themselves… were endowed with the power of free will, this freedom of the will incited each one to either progress (by imitation of God), or else it reduced a person to failure through negligence. (c. 225, Vol. 4, p. 292)

In the preaching of the church, there is included the doctrine concerning a just judgment of God. When this teaching is believed to be true, it incites those who hear it to live virtuously and to shun sin by all means. For they clearly acknowledge that things worthy of praise and blame are within our own power. (c. 225, Vol. 4, p. 302)

Certain ones of those [Gnostic’s] who hold different opinions misuse these passages. They essentially destroy free will by introducing ruined natures incapable of salvation and by introducing others as being saved in such a way that they cannot be lost.

Novatian, 200–258 AD

When he had given man all things for his service, he willed that man alone should be free. And lest an unbounded freedom would lead man into peril, He had laid down a command, in which man was taught that there was no evil in the fruit of the tree. Rather, he was forewarned that evil would arise if man were to exercise his free will in contempt of the law that had been given him….As a result, he could receive either worthy rewards or a just punishment. For he had in his own power that which he might choose to do. (c. 235, Vol. 5, p. 612)

Eusebius (Bishop of Caesarea) 263 – 233 AD

A Roman historian, exegete and Christian polemicist. Together with Pamphilus, he was a scholar of the Biblical canon. Considered the father of “Church History” for his extensive writings in ecclesiastical history.

The Creator of all things has impressed a natural law upon the soul of every man, as an assistant and ally in his conduct, pointing out to him the right way by this law; but, by the free liberty with which he is endowed, making the choice of what is best worthy of praise and acceptance, because he has acted rightly, not by force, but from his own free-will, when he had it in his power to act otherwise, As, again, making him who chooses what is worst, deserving of blame and punishment, as having by his own motion neglected the natural law, and becoming the origin and fountain of wickedness, and misusing himself, not from any extraneous necessity, but from free will and judgment. The fault is in him who chooses, not in God. For God is has not made nature or the substance of the soul bad; for he who is good can make nothing but what is good. Everything is good which is according to nature. Every rational soul has naturally a good free-will, formed for the choice of what is good. But when a man acts wrongly, nature is not to be blamed; for what is wrong, takes place not according to nature, but contrary to nature, it being the work of choice, and not of nature!

The devil in his oracles hangs all things upon fate, and taking away that which is in our power, and arises from self-motion of free will… brings this also into bondage to necessity.

Commodianus, 250 AD

Being a believing man, if you seek to live as the gentiles do, the joys of the world remove you from the grace of Christ c.240

Cyprian, 200-258 AD Bishop of Carthage

The liberty of believing or not believing is placed in free choice. In Deuteronomy, it says, ‘Look! I have set before your face life and death, good and evil. Choose for yourself life, that you may live. (ANF, The fathers from the 3rd century, c. 250, vol. 5. page 547)

It is written, ‘He who endures to the end, the same shall be saved’ [Matt. 10:22]. So whatever precedes the end is only a step by which we ascend to the summit of salvation. It is not the final point wherein we have already gained the full result of the ascent. (Cyprian Unity of the Church sec. 21) 

Shepherd of Hermas, ca 130-140 AD

He that does not know God,” [the angel of repentance] answered, ”and practices evil, receives a certain chastisement for his wickedness, but he that has known God ought not to do evil anymore but to do good. If, accordingly, when he ought to do good, he does evil, does he not appear to do greater evil than the one who does not know God? For this reason, those who have not known God and do evil are condemned to death, but those who have known God and have seen his mighty works and still continue in evil shall be chastised doubly and shall die forever. This is the way the Church of God will be purified.” (Shepherd of Hermas III:9:8)

If you do not guard yourself against anger you and your house will lose all hope of salvation. Hermas c.150

The Epistle of the Apostles, 2nd century

A work from the New Testament apocrypha. A complete version in Ethiopic translation was discovered and published in the early twentieth century.

 27 ”For to that end went I down unto the place of Lazarus, and preached unto the righteous and the prophets, that they might come out of the rest which is below and come up into that which is above; and I poured out upon them with my right hand the water (?) (baptism, Eth.) of life and forgiveness and salvation from all evil, as I have done unto you and unto them that believe on me. But if any man believe on me and do not my commandments, although he have confessed my name, he hath no profit therefrom but runneth a vain race: for such will find themselves in perdition and destruction, because they have despised my commandments.”28 …Then said he unto us: Verily I say unto you, all that have believed on me and that believe in him that sent me will I take up into the heaven, unto the place which my Father hath prepared for the elect, and I will give you the kingdom, the chosen kingdom, in rest, and everlasting life. 29 But all they that have offended against my commandments and have taught other doctrine, (perverting) the Scripture and adding thereto, striving after their own glory, and that teach with other words them that believe on me in uprightness, if they make them fall thereby, shall receive everlasting punishment. We said unto him: Lord, shall there then be teaching by others, diverse from that which thou hast spoken unto us ? He said unto us: It must needs be, that the evil and the good may be made manifest; and the judgment shall be manifest upon them that do these things, and according to their works shall they be judged and shall be delivered unto death. And we said unto him: Lord, will they that believe be treated like the unbelievers, and wilt thou punish them that have escaped from the pestilence? And he said unto us: If they that believe in my name deal like the sinners, then have they done as though they had not believed. And we said again to him: Lord, have they on whom this lot hath fallen no life? He answered and said unto us: Whoso hath accomplished the praise of my Father, he shall abide in the resting-place of my Father.

Epistle of Barnabas, 70-100 AD

A Greek text preserved complete in the 4th century Codex Sinaiticus where it appears at the end of the New Testament. It is traditionally ascribed to Barnabas who is mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles. It is not to be confused with the Gospel of Barnabas.

The Lord will judge the world without respect… of persons. Each will receive as he has done: if he is righteous, his righteousness will precede him; if he is wicked, the reward of wickedness is before him. Take heed, lest resting at our ease, as those who are the called [of God], we should fall asleep in our sins, and the wicked prince, acquiring power over us, should thrust us away from the kingdom of the Lord. And all the more attend to this, my brethren, when ye reflect and behold, that after so great signs and wonders were wrought in Israel, they were thus [at length] abandoned. Let us beware lest we be found [fulfilling that saying], as it is written, “Many are called, but few are chosen.”

We take earnest heed in these last days, for the whole time of your faith will profit you nothing unless now, in this wicked time, we also withstand coming sources of danger, as befits the sons of God. (Letter of Barnabas 4)

God’s will is not always done – Bible verses

Bible verses which show that God’s will can change depending on man’s actions

Man’s free will is even more obvious in the Bible than the trinity (which is VERY obvious) and we can be read about man’s free will from the first page of the Bible to the last. Below are just a few examples. One would think that the obvious FACT that people so often have hardened their hearts against God and rebelled against Him, would be proof enough that God’s will does not always happen, but strangely enough there are people who don’t feel this is clear at all. Believe it or not, but they believe that God predestines/causes/forces/decrees people to rebel against him! If this is true, then we would just be doing God’s will by being wicked and rebellious, and we really should be rewarded for doing His will instead of getting punished for something which is totally out of our control. The word ”sovereign” is not in the Bible (KJV) but isn’t our Lord powerful enough to create man with free will? Or is this too difficult for Him? Wouldn’t God be in control even though man has free will? The Bible is a book FULL of examples of people who are NOT obeying God, resulting in God’s wrath against them! If man does not have free will, then GOD is to be blamed for our actions. If we are born ”totally depraved” as some think (another unbiblical expression) then whose fault is that? Are we ”totally depraved” according to God’s will or against his will? Where did this depravity come from, if not by God? Please close your ”reformed” type of books with all kinds of gnostic claims which deceive you, and open up your Bible and see what it says. If I go for a walk with my dog and decide to let it loose for a  while, can we say that the dog has overpowered me and made me lose control over it against my will? Did the dog remove some of my sovereignty? Did I lose control over the situation even though I’m well aware of the likely behavior of my dog, including the tiny risk that it might find a rabbit and chase it?

New Testament

Matt 11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:21Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Matt 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Matt 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Matt 17:17 Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you?  

Matt 15:6 …And you voided the commandment of God by your tradition.

Matt 23:37.O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how  often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mark 7:13 making the Word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have delivered. And you do many such things.

Mark 3:35 whosoever shall DO THE WILL OF GOD, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him

Jn. 7:17 Jesus said, If any man will do his will

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 

Acts 8 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness 

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,—: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.  28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

1 Tim. 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

1 Thess 4 brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you OUGHT to walk and to PLEASE GOD.. Therefore he who rejects this does not REJECT man, but GOD, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, BUT to the will of God.

2 Cor 5: 19 God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though GOD WERE PLEADING through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, BE RECONCILED TO GOD.”

1 John 2:7 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Old Testament

Zechariah 7: 11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear. 12Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the Lord of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the Lord of hosts. 13Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the Lord of hosts: 

Exodus 13:17 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt

Numbers 14:27 How long shall I bear with this evil congregation, which murmur against me?

Hos. 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children

Isa. 5:Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

Isa.1:2 I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me?

Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured...

Isa.66:3 Regarding those who would not hearken to the Lord, God said ”I gave them up unto their own hearts lust: and they walked in their own counsels

Gen. 6:5 it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth

Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people

1 Samuel 15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

Lev 26:23 IF YOU WILL NOT be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; THEN will I also walk contrary unto you.”

Jeremiah 8:5Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return. 6I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle. — 9The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them? 

Jeremiah 15:6 Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting evil that I thought to do unto them.

Jeremiah 26:3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

Jeremiah 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech;which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Jeremiah 42:10 If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.

Eze:33:11-16 As surely as I live, says the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of wicked people. I only want them to turn from their wicked ways so they can live. Turn! Turn from your wickedness, O people of Israel! Why should you die? Son of man, give your people this message: The righteous behavior of righteous people will not save them if they turn to sin, nor will the wicked behavior of wicked people destroy them if they repent and turn from their sins. When I tell righteous people that they will live, but then they sin, expecting their past righteousness to save them, then none of their righteous acts will be remembered. I will destroy them for their sins. And suppose I tell some wicked people that they will surely die, but then THEY turn from their sins and do what is just and right. If the wicked restores the pledge, gives back that which he has stolen, walks in the statutes of life, WITHOUT SINNING; he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of their past sins will be brought up again, for they have done what is just and right, and they will surely live.”

Ezekiel 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Ezekiel 36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: BE ASHAMED and confounded FOR YOUR OWN WAYS, O house of Israel.

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; andGod repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Ps. 81:11. Yea, they have chosen their own ways

Ps. 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heartGod judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

Ps. 78 That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments: And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God. 

Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. 

Theological Development Through the Scriptures (from PinPoint Evangelism)

Genesis 2:19
Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them

From this passage, what was God’s reason to bringing the animals to man? It appears by the language used, God didn’t know what Adam would in fact name each animal; this appears to be the point being made.& is correct, then this could not be the actual reason why God performed this act, and the wording of Scripture becomes vague.

Genesis 18:20-21
The  outcry  against  Sodom  and Gomorrah is so great and their sin  so grievous that  I will  go down and see if what they gave done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me.  If not, I will know.

This verse is truly a stumper if absolute foreknowledge is true. God himself states quite openly that he will do something (go down) in order for him to know something. Now did he know it before he went or not?  How can God use the future tense when addressing his knowledge?  To say that God already knew but the wording is just saying that he will also know in the future does violence to language not to mention that it is stating the obvious. God uses language as we do.  To do anything else would be utter folly. How could God faithfully communicate with man if he pulled a Clinton speak.  If God’s word usage is different that ours is, we  have a communication dilemma of the first order. (The analysis of this story provides wonderful insights into God’s nature and will be the subject of another paper altogether.)

Genesis 22:12
”Do not lay a hand on the boy“, he said. “Do not do anything to him.  Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”

Here again God states that he has just learned something.  Some scholars try to get around this by stating that the angel who delivered this message was interjecting his own opinion. Well if this is the case, then Abraham didn’t withhold his only son from the angel.  This is clearly preposterous, but it shows the length that theologians will go to in order not to change their theology.  God tested Abraham to know what he would do.

Exodus 4:8
Then the Lord said, “If they do not believe you or pay attention to the first miraculous sign, they may believe the second. But if they do not believe these two signs or listen to you, take some water from the Nile and pour it on the dry ground.

They MAY believe!  Why is God giving Moses all of these contingencies?  If God knew exactly how the Egyptians were going to react, then these instructions make little sense. Was he trying to give Moses the false belief that He didn’t know exactly how things were going to turn out? Remember that this is God instructing Moses. This sounds like plan A, B and C.

Exodus 13:17-18
When  Pharaoh let the people  go, God did not lead them  on the road through the Philistine country, though that was  shorter.  For God said, “If they face war, they might change their minds and return to Egypt.”

So God led the people around by the desert road toward the Red Sea. This passage seems to let us in on God’s deliberation of how he is going route the nation of Israel.  It clearly says that the reason God didn’t take the most direct route was that the people “might” turn back. Here we see that God knows and inderstands the people’s hearts and their “probable” reaction to a war at this point, but clearly the outcome is not certain. Remember, this is God speaking as it is in quotation marks. God made the people take the long route through the desert because he was not sure of what the outcome would have been had he not.

Exodus 16:4
In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions.

Why does God test us?  Theologians say that it is for our sakes and not God’s. This is indeed strange.  Do you learn anything in a test, or does that which is already in you become manifest. Clearly the schoolteacher doesn’t expect a student to learn from a test.  A test is to determine what a student already knows.  Now some may say that we cannot relate a school teacher’s knowledge to that of God, and I would indeed  agree.  However, this Scripture appears to correlate the two.  God tested them in order to find something out. Are we going to say that God already knew, but he wanted to stimulate his sense of vision?

Numbers 14:11-12
The Lord said to Moses, “How long will these people that me with contempt?  How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them?”  I will strike them down with a plague and destroy them, but I will make you into a nation greater and stronger then they.

Here we see God asking questions of Moses that we can confidently conclude that Moses didn’t have the answers to. Clearly God knew that Moses didn’t have the answers.  Why then was God making these comments?  Could it be to show his breaking heart?  Why would God ask these questions when he already knew the answer?  The final point is even more curious.  God states emphatically that he will do something that he knew that he would never do.  God didn’t strike them down with a plague, and he didn’t make Moses’s descendants greater and stronger than Abraham’s.  So, if God knew that these were all false statements, were does these lead us?  Did God mislead, lie to, and manipulate Moses?  If you cling to absolute foreknowledge, you are in fact leveling this charge whether you want to or not.

Numbers 14:30
Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun.

Here again we see God reneging on a promise.  Now if God knew when he made the promise that he would not keep it, then he lied to the people. He gave them a false hope that he knew he would later dash to pieces. God even swore with an uplifted hand to do something that he knew he wouldn’t ever do. Where does this leave us?  If this is true, can we ever trust in a promise of God?  Does believing God require more stupidity than faith?

Deuteronomy 8:2
Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in you heart, whether or not you would keep his commands.

Here again we bring up the whole testing issue.  This appears to be quite plainly stated.  Does our theology call God a liar?  Why did God humble and test the people?  A forty year long test appears to be a bit over the top if God already knew everything.  If God already knew what was in their heart, then I think God owes the people an apology.

Deuteronomy 13:3
The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Ditto.

Judges 2:22
I will use them to test Israel and see whether they will keep the way of the Lord and walk in it as their forefathers did.

Judges 3:4
They were left to test the Israelites to see whether they would obey the Lord’s commands, which he had given their forefathers through Moses.

Does anyone think that this passage is talking about literal sight?  While this test does involve observation, it is not for observation purposed only.  For completeness however, the Judges 3 passage has a dual purpose as stated by God.  The first was to train the Israelites for battle (v2), and the second was to “see” what they would do as far as obeying God’s command (v4).

I Samuel 23:10-13
David said, ”O Lord, God of Israel, your servant has heard DEFINITELY that Saul plans to come to Keilah and destroy the town on account of me.  Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me to  him?   Will  Saul come down  as your servant  has  heard?   O Lord, God  of Israel, tell your servant.”   And  the  Lord said,  “He  will.”  Again  David asked,  “Will  the  citizens  of  Keilah surrender me and my men to Saul?” And the Lord said, “They will.”  So David and his men, about six hundred in number, left Keilah and kept moving from place to place. When Saul was told that David had escaped from Keilah, he did not go there.

Now  what  do  we  have  here? David  asks  God two  very  direct  questions  and got two  direct answers.  David asked would the town be destroyed.  God said ‘Yes’.  David also asked would the  people  of the town  give  him over to Saul.   God again  said  ‘Yes’.  However,  none  of his happened.  Didn’t God know what David was going to do?  Was God misleading David?  Upon hearing this, Saul didn’t even go to the town that God said that he would destroy.  Why didn’t David simply throw up his hands and cry, “Woe is me”, when God told him his future?  Why did God tell David how things would be if he in fact knew that they would never be?  How can God say that Saul will go to the town and not be in error when Saul never goes?  Is God lying to David or just “pulling his leg”?  The obvious answer is that if David stayed there, these things would have happened.  David obviously didn’t believe that God’s knowledge of the future was unalterable or he would have just sat there and succumbed to his fate.   No, David knew what God  said would happen if  he  didn’t  change  something.  He also  knew that if  he  did change something, what God said would not happen and would be invalid.  The future is open!

I Kings 20:42
“This  is  what  the  Lord  says:  ‘You  have  set  free  a  man  that  I  had  determined  should  die, therefore, it is your life for his life, your people for his people.’”

God  determined  something  knowing that there was  no  possible way of it happening?   Also, “therefore” is a contingent word, but if God knew absolutely that he would spare the king, then there is no contingency about this or any other act.  God simple determined that he should die, and made up this scenario to justify his actions.  This is clearly a false statement, but what else could this mean?

II Chronicles 32:31
But when the envoys were sent by the rulers of Babylon to ask him about the miraculous sign that had occurred in the land, God left him to test him and to know everything that was in his heart.

Again, wrongo!  God didn’t leave him to know anything!  What kind of radial theology is this! God already knows everything from eternity, from before the foundations of the world!  We need to rewrite the Bible and take out all of this bad theology and these misleading passages.

Jeremiah 3:7
I thought  that  after  she  had  done  all  this  she  would  return  to  me  but  she  did  not,  and  her unfaithful sister Judah saw it.

This passage appears to have God admitting to a mistake in his knowledge. Was God mistaken? What about absolute foreknowledge of all future events, how could this be?  How can God think one thing  about the  future, be incorrect, and still  have  absolute  foreknowledge of all future events?

Jeremiah 3:19
I thought you would call me ‘Father’ and not turn away from following me.  But like a woman unfaithful to her husband, so you have been unfaithful to me, O house of  Israel, declares the Lord.

What!  We have found another passage that needs to be expunged from the Bible!  Clearly the thought of God being mistaken about the future acts of man cannot be true!  Heresy, I say!

Jeremiah 7:31
They have build the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire – something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

Jeremiah 19:5
They  have  built the  high  places  of Baal to  burn their  sons in the fire as offerings to Baal  – something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

Jeremiah 32:35
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though  I  never commanded,  nor did it enter my mind, that they  should  do  such  a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

All of these verses state the same thing.  Now I will be serious for a moment. God states that this thought ever entered his mind.  What can this mean except God did not think that man could stoop to  such  a level as to  do this horrendous thing.  Will you accept what God says about himself in his Word, or will you refuse to believe it, instead clinging on to what man’s tradition has told you is an attribute of God? Remember that the only concept of God that is correct is one that can be determined through the Scriptures.   Omniscience is  not  found in the Bible.  God knowing the future is never directly stated.  Some verses may appear on the surface to imply this attribute, but an implied attribute must square with all Scripture.  If it does not, the implication of God’s  character  or essence  is  incorrect.  If your logical  conclusions derived from selected Scriptures do not harmonize with other Scriptures, then you need to reconsider your theology. Do not wave your hands and try to explain away passages with obvious meanings.

Jeremiah 26:2-3
Tell them everything I command you do not omit a word.  Perhaps they will listen and each one will turn from his evil way.

“Perhaps”,  what  kind  of  word is this  for  God to  be  using?   This passage again  alludes to a contingent event, but our theology states that God knows absolutely what the outcome of the event will be.   To a god with  absolute foreknowledge no event is  contingent all events are absolute.  If this is indeed the case, why does God address man with contingent language?   Is God trying to portray an idea that is false? Would the prophet think that with such language that it was vitally important to not omit a word?  In the end, the people did not listen, so why did God have Jeremiah do this, to justify his own actions, to make the guilty guiltier?

Let me make one additional point here.  God  knows absolute reality.  If to God there are no contingent events (a  mandatory conclusion if absolute foreknowledge is true), the absolute eternal truth is that there are no contingent events.  If you believe that your future is contingent, then you must be deceived. It matters not how God knows the future and who determines it.  If God knows the outcome, then that outcome must occur. Therefore the concept of contingency is lunacy. Everything is  fate.  If  you think that the future is  open, then you cannot believe in absolute foreknowledge.  For centuries,  theologians  have been  arguing  if  we  are  free to determine our future or does God decree it.  This is unimportant for the discussion at hand.  If the future is fixed, then regardless of how it was fixed, it is fixed.  Your future has been determined absolutely,  and  you  have no  other choice except to walk those steps.  Your  future  has  been known, and therefore cannot be altered if God knows it unchangeably.

Ezekiel 20:6 & 15
On that day I swore to them that I would bring them out of Egypt into a land I had searched out for them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most beautiful of all lands. Also with uplifted hand I swore to them in the desert that I should not bring them into the land I had given them – a land flowing with milk and honey, most beautiful of all lands.

These passages reiterate one listed earlier, but they are listed here for more clarity.  Here God stated he searched out an area for the people knowing before the search which area it would be, and that the people would never see it. Strange actions indeed.  He then swore to them with an uplifted hand that he would so something, and then later  raised his hand again and swore the opposite.  Now did God mean it when he swore the first time or just the second?  How could he be sincere the first time if he knew inevitably that he could never do it?  Do we start to have a credibility problem with God?  How do we know when he tells us something that he will indeed do it and not renege?

Ezekiel 22:30
I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found none.

Did God just have some time to burn off so he performed a useless search?  Was God’s heart in the search since before he commenced searching, he knew what the outcome would be?  Was he constrained to search to prove a point?  The question is: Why does God do futile things?

Ezekiel 33:13
If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered, he will die for the evil he has done.

Again, we have more credibility problems with God.  He states emphatically that someone will live when he knows when he gives the statement that it could be false.  Then if someone takes God at his word (that he will live) and lets his guard down, he then risks death.  What kind of message is this?  If God tells you something, don’t believe it?

Psalms 69:28, Exodus 33:32
May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous. But now, please forgive their sin – but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.  The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.”

In the first verse we see that David has a notion that God will write someone’s name in the book of life, and at some later date, that person might be removed. Now if God knows absolutely who is going to be saved before he created the world, then what is the point of a holy eraser?  Where did David get such an idea?  Well one place might have been Moses.  Somehow, Moses had bad theology.  But wait, it appears that God propagated that bad theology.  God didn’t just let Moses’ theology  stand, but he compounded it even further.   The  fruit of  this theology is found in Revelation 3:5 when John the Apostle reiterated this idea thousands of years later.

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white.   I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

The obvious converse of this passage is that non-overcomers will be blotted out.  Interesting!

What is not meant by the denial of absolute foreknowledge

By denying God knows the future free will choices of man, it is not assumed that God doesn’t know certain future events.  Clearly God has prophesied future events that have come to pass.

These events however could be spoken of as certainties previous to the event, because God has the power to do whatever he so wills.  Nothing can stop his plan.  Therefore, if God decided to have  Jesus  born in Bethlehem,  no force in the  universe  could thwart  his  plan.   He therefore knows the future act absolutely because he has determined to cause the event to occur when the time has been fulfilled.  This is how a Calvinist views every event.  However, I believe Scripture shows that this is the exception and not the rule.

The denial of absolute foreknowledge also does not mean that God does not know everything. Clearly Scripture teaches that God has  full and complete knowledge of everything that exists (I John 3:20).  The question therefore is, does the future exist?  If you decide that the future does in fact exist in some manner as related to God, then it is incumbent on the reader to prove such a position.  This position cannot be simply assumed.  If in fact the future does not exist, then it is not incumbent upon God to know it.

Now this is not to say that God couldn’t have created a world in which he did know the future, but that he did not.  One could ask themselves, if in this world God knows all  future free actions, how would a world where he didn’t know differ from it?  How would the Bible be worded differently?

Paul was not the chief of sinners and holy, righteous and BLAMELESS at the same time

Paul said: 

Romans 7:14 But I am carnal, sold under sin

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is DEATH 

Hmm, was Paul BOTH carnal and not carnal at the same time, or is he saying the he is carnal and therefore spiritually dead OR is he saying that he was FORMERLY carnal and sold under sin? I’d say the latter.  Paul also said:

 I Cor. 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and SIN NOT 

1 Thess. 2:10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how HOLILY and JUSTLY and UNBLAMEABLY WE BEHAVED OURSELVES among you that believe:11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of SIN UNTO DEATH, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Paul is saying that if you obey sin it leads to DEATH (and naturally spiritual death since all people will die physically whether they sin or not). If Paul was the chief of sinners while writing Romans, it must mean he obeyed SIN and served two masters! The Bible is clear about that  sinning and serving two masters will send a person to hell. So Paul wasn’t saved while writing Romans? How can a person be the chief of sinners and BLAMELESS (which Paul says he is) at the same time? To me that is a Bible contradiction. Paul identified himself as a sinner but the context reveals he was talking about his life BEFORE he came to salvation.

1 Tim. 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. (1 Tim. 1:12-16).

When Paul wrote ”I was before a blasphemer and a persecutor” it shows he is writing about the time when he was unsaved in his past. He also said ”I acted ignorantly in unbelief”. Paul is not speaking of the normal Christian life and when comparing with context it’s apparent that Paul didn’t keep on doing those sinful things, as he frequently taught against.

Just a few verses later Paul warned Timoty to have a GOOD CONSCIENCE. He said 18This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck”. If Paul was the chief of sinners also as a born again christian, then how could he possibly have a good conscience, and how could he possibly expect Timothy to have a good conscience if he fails himself? Can someone be a chief of sinners with a good conscience before God?

Acts 23:1 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.

Acts. 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

Rom. 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost

2 Cor. 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

2 Tim. 1:3 I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day

Would Paul exhort others to stop sinning when he himself was carnal and sold under sin? Paul says sin dwells in him (Romans 7:17, 20) and he says he is a wretched man (Romans 7:24). Can a person have sin dwelling in him at the same time as he is free of sin? Wouldn’t this be a clear contradiction? Did the chief of sinners write the major part of the NT and ask his readers to stop sinning and to not be hypocrites at the same time as HE was the biggest hypocrite? Paul’s desire is to find someone who can free him from his sins which lead to death (Rom 7:24), and he makes it clear in Rom. 8:2 that the fight he had in the flesh belonged to his former life.  Right after he describes his bondage to sin and the law before he was saved, he says, ”There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” He also said ”IF YE LIVE AFTER THE FLESH YE SHALL DIE”. Based on Paul’s own words a person who sins is SPIRITUALLY DEAD, so clearly Paul could not have been the chief of sinners when saying this.

He is speaking in the present tense, but at which present time? Paul is using a mechanism of literature called, Past Perfect with Present Perfect tense. It is when you speak of past events as if it were present tense. There is a transition by first speaking of the past, transferring in present perfect tense, then shifting it back to the actual present.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.—:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.—12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Paul says that we are either slaves to sin OR slaves to righteousness.  If Paul was a slave to sin (chief of sinners) then he would be spiritually DEAD by his own admission. We can’t serve two masters. So again, Paul was not describing himself from a christian perspective in Romans. 7. Paul’s behavior agreed with what he taught all the churches:

Eph. 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.Be not ye therefore partakers with them.For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Col. 3:Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds

1 Thess. 4:For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

Phil. 4:9Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, DO: and the God of peace shall be with you.

1 Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

2 Cor 10:5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ 

So in conclusion, either Paul was exactly so holy, blameless, righteous and pure as he claimed to be or he was the biggest hypocrite in the Bible, and maybe in history. Make your choice but you can’t have it both ways.

Paul was also not chosen to believe, and no one is forced to believe and obey God. Paul however did believe and obey God:

So then, King Agrippa, I WAS NOT DISOBEDIENT to the vision from heaven (Acts 26:19)

Neither can we take Phil. 3:12-13 as support for that Paul couldn’t stop sinning. Also v. 10 must be taken into account.

Phil. 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before—20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Clearly the above concerns another type of perfection than the moral perfection since it talks about the resurrection when we will get new bodies and become perfect individuals in a physical sense. As long as we live on earth we will have to cope with our fragile bodies which sometimes give us pain. That’s another matter than being able to live obedient to God. Naturally Paul believed it was achievable to reach a moral perfection while on earth, before we die physically. He even speaks about ”as many as are perfect” just a couple of verses later:

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Not even Jesus was ”perfected” before his resurrection:

Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected

Explaining the trinity for muslims

We are told to beware of false prophets

Galatians 1:8-9: But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Matt. 7:15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

1 John 4:Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Also after the death of Jesus we can read about prophesies, and we are told that prophesying is a gift of the Holy Spirit which we should all seek to get. Anyone can get this gift. When Luke wrote Acts he used the word ”prophet” for someone who made prophesies:

Acts 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

Acts 21:10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul’s girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles

Acts 15:32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

It’s rather likely that these prophets lived also when Jesus and John the Baptist were still alive (John the Baptiste, who was another prophet) and if they had the gift of prophesying they apparently didn’t lose this gift when John and Jesus died since they were still called ”prophets” in Acts. Anyone who comes along claiming to be a prophet has to be put to the test. Moreover, it doesn’t make much sense to label a person a ”prophet” today when the generation of John and Jesus died out, since we have the Comforter who dwells inside us, which is the Holy Spirit and our GUIDE. We also have the both the old and the new testament to correct us:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (The comforter is the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.)

Hebr. 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

3 things can be 1  (trinity)

1) Add 3 piles of sand together. What do you have now? 1 pile of sand, right? And yet the size of the material remains the same.

2) Separate 1) egg-shell, 2) egg white and 3) egg yolk and place them in different locations in your kitchen. You can still call all these 3 units for 1. You can also mix the 3 units together and make 1 egg nog and pour it out in 3 different cups. You can still say that it’s 1 egg.

3) The universe consists of 1) matter, 2) space and 3) time. Remove one of these three, and you don’t have a universe.

4) Watch a pot of boiling water. You can see steam coming out of it, and the hood over the stove might get wet and be covered with small drops. If you would place the wet hood in the freezer, the drops would turn to ice. You have different variations of water which you can keep together or separate, but it’s still water – H2O. If you take the hood out of the freezer and let the ice melt, you can collect the water and pour it back into the pot. So out of 1 unit of H2O you can get 1) liquid, 2) steam and 3) ice.

Also in the Quran we can read that Allah is shown as a fire in the bush, calling for Moses. Apparently also the Quran suggests that Allah shows up in different forms just like the Biblical God. If Allah according to the Quran can appear as a fire and still be considered as ONE God, why is it difficult to accept that the Biblical God can appear as a fire, a son or a spirit and still be ONE God?

1. Allah called to Moses from a bush on the right side of the valley and said, ”O Musa, surely I am Allah, the Lord of the worlds. Cast down your staff” (28:30-31). 2. When Moses approached the burning bush he heard a voice say, ”Blessed is whoever is in the fire and whatever is around it and glorified be Allah, the Lord of the worlds. O Moses! Lo! It is I, Allah, the mighty, the wise. Throw down your staff” (27:7-10). 3. The voice said, ”Moses, I, even I, am your oming so believers must not follow their evil desires or they will be destroyed. What do you have in your hand? Moses replied that he had a rod that he uses to rest on, prepare food for the sheep and other purposes. Allah said, toss it Moses” (20:11,19).

What is the trinity?

When discussing with muslims the arguments are usually the same. ”The trinity is not found in the Bible. How can three persons be in one God? Jesus did not really die on the cross. If Jesus died on the cross, then christians must believe that GOD died and God cannot die. God doesn’t have a son. The Bible is corrupt”, etc. Muslims basically trust what they have been told by other muslims and they believe christians are deceived. Many muslims are not that religious, but they would still regard themselves as muslims ”by birth”, and therefore expect also christians to be christians ”by birth”. If they are not able to answer a certain proposed contradiction, they are convinced that one of their more learned religious leaders WILL be able to, and live on this hope.

Many of them have difficulties grasping the trinity. But ask yourself this: Is God able to be in any shape he wants? If God wants to be a flower, a fire, a square or a trinity, can he do this, or does he have to ask us for permission first? Surely we must accept that a sovereign God can be in any shape he likes, and that being a trinity is NOT too difficult for GOD? He might have god reasons for wanting to be a trinity, and the Bible explains what those reasons are.

Muslims often start out with saying that they DO know what the trinity is, but they soon reveal that they in reality do not. The common mistake is of course that they make efforts to show that Jesus is not the Father, but christians don’t believe Jesus is his own Father. The Bible explains that the trinity consists of three separate persons who are in the same godhead.

The trinity consists of 1) The Father, 2) The son Jesus Christ and 3) The Holy Spirit. Three separate persons but in the same trinity. The Bible is VERY clear that God is ONE. The three persons in the trinity always move to the same direction and have the same mind.

Jesus didn’t come into the world the first time when he was born of Mary. Jesus has always existed with the Father. Both the Father and son call themselves the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. The trinity with the three persons has always existed and always will. However, Jesus IN FLESH came through Mary about 2,000 years ago. Jesus was born as a human being with the mission to die for us, and while he lived on earth he showed that he was the promised Messiah. Isaiah said about 800 years before Jesus was born, that ”Mighty God” would be born by a virgin. Everything is created by, through and for Jesus, and the Bible says that nothing existed before Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross, God the Father did NOT die. It was the Jesus Christ IN FLESH which ”died”, but remember that Death could not keep him! He rose again the third day.

Bible verses – the trinity in the Bible

It’s true that the word ”trinity” is not in the Bible, but neither is the word ”monotheism”. Where does it say the word ”trinity” must be found in the Bible before we can accept it as true? Here are SOME verses which show Jesus deity:

Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’

John 20:24-29 Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’

Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:— 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 10:30-33 : I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy,because you, a mere man, claim to be God.

Colossians 2:9 In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

Romans 9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised

John 8:40, 58 I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!

John 1:1, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shallbe upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.    

John 9:35-39 “Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, ‘Do you believe in the Son of man?’ He answered, ‘And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?’ Jesus said to him, ‘You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you.’ He said, ‘Lord, I believe’; and he WORSHIPED HIM. ” 

Matthew 16:27-28 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

Col. 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the reeminence.19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

God is love

The Biblical God tells us to treat others the way we would like to be treated ourselves, and we are asked to pray for our enemies. If your God tells you to harm or kill others for the only reason that they disagree with you, then run for your life to another direction, because you are worshiping a false God.

Turn the other cheek … love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. (Matthew 5:39, 44)

Put back your sword in its place … for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. (Matthew 26:52)

Mistakes and inconsistencies in the Quran

I’m not going to list all numerous errors and inconsistencies here (just make a search on the net) but here are a couple of examples:

The Samaritans are said to have built the golden calf during the time of Moses, yet at that time there was no place called Samaria or race called Samaritans.

The Quran states that the Blessed Mary, mother of Jesus, was the sister of Aaron, yet the Bible reveals that Miriam was the sister of Aaron and Moses.

The only way out of this dilemma is for Muslims to claim that the Jews and Christians have changed the Bible. But if you ask for examples, they can’t give you any. If you ask WHEN this happened (before or after Muhammed lived) they are not sure of this either. They believe that the Bible has changed, because this is what other muslims have always told them.

Muhammed marrying a 6-year-old girl

The fact that Muhammed married a 6-year-old girl (Aisha) and consummated the marriage when she was 9 is of course troublesome for muslims, but since they are trained to ALWAYS defend Muhammed regardless of what he is guilty of, they will always excuse him. The most common excuse is that girls matured faster during this time, but of course there is NO historical evidence for this and this idea is clearly invented for the only reason to excuse Muhammed. Girls did not mature any faster during Biblical times so why would we believe this changed a few hundred years later, when Muhammed entered the scene? There is NO indication of that girls were mature enough to get married at 6-9 during any time in world’s history. Isn’t this a time when girls should play with dolls? What benefit would a 6-year-old girl get from a marriage? Muhammed is supposed to be perfect in all his ways, and we are to take after him as a role model, so why don’t all muslims take after his practice to marry children? Some muslims DO in fact marry children. Are we to view them as particularly faithful to Muhammed? Had the Quran said that Muhammed married a 4 year old girl, the excuses would be the same,”Girls matured faster in those days”.

According to official Sunni Muslim sources, Muhammad married Aisha when he was around 50 and when she was around 6. Muhammad consummated the marriage to Aisha approximately four years later, or in the second year of his arrival to Medina when the latter was nine years old. In most cases puberty for girls starts at the age of 12, and it is rare for girls to attain puberty prior to that period. There is even data to support the position that specific cultures placed the age of marriage at a little over 12 years of age for this reason. Even if a girl has attained puberty faster does not mean that she is physically ready to consummate a marriage. Moreover, morality does not change over time. Neither should muslims excuse Mohammed by suggesting that ”this was the tradition during that time”.  Not only was it NOT a common tradition during this time, but shouldn’t a perfect prophet always be up to date and act correctly no matter which era in lived in? He is supposed to be our example, and now Muhammed is promoting child marriage. When a lawmaker says that killing someone in self-defense is acceptable, the lawmaker must not go out and kill someone in self-defense if his law is to stand. Hence, the argument that Muhammad needed to marry a young girl to establish puberty as the appropriate age for marriage completely fails.

Narrated Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for ‘Aisha’s hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said ”But I am your brother.” The Prophet said, ”You are my brother in Allah’s religion and His Book, but she (‘Aisha) is lawful for me to marry.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18)

Narrated Hisham’s father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)

Muhammad died when Aisha was eighteen years old, leaving her a childless widow for the rest of her life. Being childless is regarded as a curse in most cultures. Muhammad also passed on a command forbidding anyone from marrying any of his widows:

Surah 33:53 O ye who believe! Enter not the Prophet’s houses, – until leave is given you, – for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation: but when ye are invited, enter; and when ye have taken your meal, disperse, without seeking familiar talk. Such (behaviour) annoys the Prophet: he is ashamed to dismiss you, but God is not ashamed (to tell you) the truth. And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs.Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy God’s Apostle, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in God’s sight an enormity

Other young girls and the ”waiting period”

When Muhammad came to Medina in the year 623 AD, a girl named Safiyyah was young: perhaps in her mid to late teens, when Muhammad married her. Muhammad died in 632 AD, or roughly two years after marrying Safiyyah. One Muslim website says that she was seventeen when Muhammad married her, meaning that she was roughly twenty when he died. Muhammed  not only took Safiyyah as his wife after killing her family and husband, but he also left her a young widow for the rest of her life!

The waiting period for divorced women who haven’t yet menstruated is three months. With other words these ”women” are in fact young girls who haven’t reached puberty! Thus, Islam permits men to marry prepubescent girls and even divorce them if they so choose! A woman can only be divorced if she is married and had her marriage consummated since the Quran expressly teaches that there is no waiting period for marriages that have not been consummated:

 Surah 65:4 And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.

Surah 33:49 O you who believe: When you marry believing women and then divorce them before you have touched them, no period of idda (waiting) have you to count in respect of them: so give them a present and set them free in a graceful manner. 

And for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). And the ‘Iddat for the girl BEFORE PUBERTY is three months (in the above Verse). (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 63)

While we were sitting in the company of the Prophet a woman came to him and presented herself (for marriage) to him. The Prophet looked at her, lowering his eyes and raising them, but did not give a reply. One of his companions said, ”Marry her to me O Allah’s Apostle!” The Prophet asked (him), ”Have you got anything?” He said, ”I have got nothing.” The Prophet said, ”Not even an iron ring?” He said, ”Not even an iron ring, but I will tear my garment into two halves and give her one half and keep the other half.” The Prophet; said, ”No. Do you know some of the Quran (by heart)?” He said, ”Yes.” The Prophet said, ”Go, I have agreed to marry her to you with what you know of the Qur’an  (as her Mahr).”

Upon a divorce, it’s the MAN who decides who the children will belong to. A man is also promised 70 virgins in God’s kingdom. Women are not promised the equivalent, and in islam men and women are not treated equally either on earth or in the next life.

Surah 4:34 Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. 

Surah 2:223 Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . .

Surah 2:282 The Prophet said, ”Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said, ”Yes.” He said, ”This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.” 

Surah 4:24 And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . .

Surah 4:3 And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. 

Surahs promoting violence

Dr. Muhsin Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur’an into English
writes: ”Allah revealed in Sura Bara’at (Repentance, IX) [the order to discard
(all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against
all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and
Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on
the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued
(as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon ”the
fighting” against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them
and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are
STRONG and have the ability to fight against them. So at first ”the fighting” was
forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory ”

How do you distinguish an evil man and a holy man if not by their actions? Jesus warned people of  false prophets and he said you will recognize them by their fruits. Muhammed’s evil actions speak for themselves. Unfortunately, muslims overlook his deeds because they are convinced he was a prophet of God. Are raiding innocent people, massacring unarmed civilians, stealing their belongings, taking their women and children as slaves and raping them a good thing? Muhammed did all those things. He even signed peace treaties, only to break them when he willed.  The sura 9 is called bara’a, precisely because in this sura Allah orders Muhammad to break all his treaties. The non-Muslims had no intentions of waging war against him but he took them by surprise and raided them when they were least expecting. These were shamelessly coward attacks on civilians. Muhammad raped women captured in his raids and allowed his followers to do the same. (Q. 4:24) There was a massacre of the Jewish tribe of Bani Quraiza that has been described in detail in dozens of traditions and books of history written by Muslims themselves. The Quran encourages Muslims to slay the unbelievers wherever they find them (2:191), to not take them as friends and helpers (3:28), fight them and show them harshness (9:123), and smite their heads ( 47:4).

People who call themselves ”christians” and who harm and kill others do so AGAINST the Bible, whereas muslims who do the same do so ACCORDING to the Quran.  All the wars and hostilities that Muhammed was engaged in were initiated by himself and his followers just as the Muslims today are the initiators of virtually all hostilities with others. According to the doctrine of abrogation, the later texts supersede the earlier whenever there are inconsistencies. The later suras always abrogate ALL the earlier suras!

Surah 9:29  Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued 

Surah 48:29 Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are harsh against unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other?

Surah 5:51 Don’t take Jews and Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them

Surah 2:191 And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter

Surah 2:193 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and Faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. 

Surah 2:216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not 

Surah 4:74 Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory soon shall we give him a reward of great (value) 

Sura 4:89 Seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.

Surah 4:95 Allah has granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home

Surah 9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular Prayers and practise regular Charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

Surah 9:123 Oh you who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you. 

Surah 9:14 Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame.

Surah 9:66 Make no excuses: you have rejected Faith after you had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin. 

From Hadeeth:
Ibn Ishaq and al-Waqidi report that the prophet said the morning after the murder (of Kab Ibn al’Ashraf), “Kill any Jew you can lay your hands on. (El beddayah wa alnihaya – Ibn Katheer – vol. 4 – in the chapter on killing Ka’ab bin al’Ashraf)

Gen. 16:11And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Gen. 17: 19And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Gen. 21: 10Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac11And the thing was very grievous in Abraham’s sight because of his son.12And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. 13And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

Gen. 22:2And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaacwhom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.  3And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.— 12And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Jesus is recorded to have performed many miracles in the Bible as well as the Quran, but not so with Muhammed

Muhammed feels that he doesn’t need to prove that he is a prophet in any other way than saying that the Quran was being revealed to him from Allah. Unfortunately, many others make similar claims and we certainly couldn’t believe that all who say they are prophets are true prophets. Jesus warned about false prophets deceiving millions.

Surah 29:48-51 Not before this didst thou recite any Book, or inscribe it with thy right hand, for then those who follow falsehood would have doubted. Nay; rather it is signs, clear signs (ayatun bayyinatun) IN THE BREASTS of those who have been given knowledge; and none denies Our signs but the evildoers. They say, ‘Why have signs (ayatun) not been sent down upon him from his Lord?’ Say: ‘The signs (al-ayatu) are only with God, and I am only a plain warner.’ What, is it not SUFFICIENT for them that We have sent down upon thee the Book that is recited to them? Surely in that is a mercy, and a reminder to a people who believe. 

Apart from the above claim, splitting the moon is the only other option which could serve as a ”miracle”. Can you imagine how this earth would look like if it had two moon halves? Splitting the moon is hardly scientific, and it’s hard to see the purpose. People around Muhammed had the right to see some tangible signs/miracles, because we certainly can’t believe every chap who claims to be a prophet. If sura 54:1-2 speaks about an ordinary lunar eclipse, then Muhammed wouldn’t be the source of that.

Sura 54:1-2 The Hour has drawn nigh: the moon is split. Yet if they see a sign they turn away, and they say ‘A continuous sorcery!’ 

Jesus birth was a miracle in itself. Muhammed’s birth was not a miracle. According to the Bible Jesus birth by a virgin was supposed to be a sign for the Messiah (Isaiah 7:14). What would be the reason for a virgin birth according to the Quran?

Surah 19:20-21 She said: ”How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?” He said: ”So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, ‘that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us’: It is a matter (so) decreed.”

Surah 21:91 And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples

According to the Quran, Jesus spoke from the cradle. Muhammad likely copied the miracle of infant Jesus’ speech from an apocryphal writing named “The Arabic Gospel of the Savior” and combined it with the data he had plagiarized from the Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew:

Surah 43:63 When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: ”Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear God and obey me. 

Surah 5:110 O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead, by My permission;…

Two miracles are omitted from this list but found in other places in the Quran: causing a table spread with food to be miraculously lowered from heaven for his disciples (5:112-115), and being able to tell people what they had hidden in their houses (3:49).

The Quran is supposed to confirm the Bible, so the Bible couldn’t have changed before Muhammed’s time

Surah 3:50-52  And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We will be Allah’s helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear thou witness that we have surrendered (unto Him).

Surah 61:6 And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic. 

Surah 5:46 And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah – a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).  

Is the Torah true only when it agrees with the Quran, and how can we be certain that this is the correct way to look at it? Maybe it’s not a good idea to trust a weak god (Allah) who is not able to protect the other messages he sent. He already failed three times to protect his messages before the Quran. Proving that the Bible is corrupt does not automatically mean that the Quran is preserved; on the contrary it proves that Allah is not mighty enough to preserve all of his revelations. Why is Allah NOW able to protect the Quran and preserve it? An attack on the Bible is nothing more than an attack on Muhammed, indirectly accusing Muhammad of being a liar or mistaken. The very same passage that speaks of Muhammad receiving revelation like some of the messengers before him, also says that there are many other messengers that are not even mentioned in the Quran!

Surah 4:163-164 We have revealed to thee as We revealed to Noah, and the Prophets after him, and We revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, Jesus and Job, Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and We gave to David Psalms, and Messengers We have already told thee of before, and Messengers We have not told thee of; and unto Moses God spoke directly —

Surah 40:78 We sent Messengers before thee; of some We have related to thee, and some We have not related to thee. It was not for any Messenger to bring a sign, save by God’s leave. When God’s command comes, justly the issue shall be decided; then the vain-doers shall be lost. 

The Quran itself commands Muslims to consult the Holy Bible for evidence and verification ( surahs 10:94; 16:43; 17:101; 21:7.)

Surah 5:47-51 It was We who revealed the Law to Moses, therein was guidance and light … and in their footsteps, We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel, therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him, a guidance and admonition to those who fear Allah. To thee (Mohammed) We sent the Scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.

Surah 45:16-17 We have given the Children of Israel the scripture, wisdom, and prophethood, and provided them with good provisions; we bestowed upon them more blessings than any other people. We have given them herein clear commandments. Ironically, they did not dispute this until the knowledge had come to them. This is due to jealousy on their part. Surely, your Lord will judge them on the Day of Resurrection regarding everything they have disputed. 

Surah 7:157 those who follow the Messenger, ‘the Prophet of the common folk, whom they find written down WITH THEM in the Torah and the Gospel, … 

Surah 48:29 Muhammad is the Messenger of God, and those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers, merciful one to another. Thou seest them bowing, prostrating, seeking bounty from God and good pleasure. Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their likeness in the Torah, and their likeness in the Gospel: as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows stout and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them He may enrage the unbelievers. God has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage. 

These verses take for granted that a true, uncorrupt Gospel was available for examination at the time of Muhammed. Some Muslim commentators even suggest that the source for the above parable is actually Mark 4:27-28! How would Christians of the seventh century have understood the Quran’s clear statements that they were to uphold the Gospel which was with them? Would they have assumed that this Gospel was something other than the four canonical Gospels which they had?

Surah 26:196 And it is surely mentioned in the Psalms of the FORMER PEOPLES. 

Addressing the Christians of Muhammad’s time the Quran’s author exhorts them to uphold the Gospel which Jesus received.

Surah 4:54 Or are they jealous of the people for the bounty that God has given them? Yet We gave the people of Abraham the Book and the Wisdom, and We gave them a mighty kingdom. 

The historical evidence shows that the Torah which was in the possession of both the Jews and Christians is actually the first five Books of the Hebrew Bible, and the Gospel of the Christians is the records of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  The Quran also refers to the Psalms which were given through David and the other messengers.

Surah 6:73, 84-90 So We were showing Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and earth, that he might be of those having sure faith… And We gave to him Isaac andJacob — each one We guided, And Noah We guided before; and of his seed David and Solomon, Job and Joseph, Moses and Aaron — even so We recompense the good-doers — Zachariah and John, Jesus and Elias; each was of the righteous; Ishmael and Elisha, Jonah and Lot-each one We preferred above all beings; and of their fathers, and of their seed, and of their brethren; and We elected them, and We guided them to a straight path. That is God’s guidance; He guides by it whom He will of His servants; had they been idolaters, it would have failed them, the things they did. THOSE ARE THEY TO WHOM WE GAVE THE BOOK, the Judgment, THE PROPHETHOOD; so if these disbelieve in it, We have already entrusted it to a people who do not disbelieve in it. Those are they whom God has guided; so follow their guidance. Say: ‘I ask of you no wage for it; it is but a reminder unto all beings.’ 

Surah 19:30, 34, 41, 49-58 He said, ‘Lo, I am God’s servant; God has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet… That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting… And mention in the Book Abraham; surely he was a true man, a Prophet… So, when he went apart from them and that they were serving, apart from God, We gave him Isaac and Jacob, and each We made a Prophet; and We gave them of Our mercy, and We appointed unto them a tongue of truthfulness, sublime. And mention in the Book Moses; he was devoted, and he was a Messenger, a Prophet. We called to him from the right side Of the Mount, and We brought him near in communion. And We gave him his brother Aaron, of Our mercy, a Prophet. And mention in the Book Ishmael; he was true to his promise, and he was a Messenger, a Prophet. He bade his people to pray and to give the alms, and he was pleasing to his Lord. And mention in the Book Idris; he was a true man, a Prophet. We raised him up to a high place. These are they whom God has blessed among the Prophets of the seed of Adam, and of those We bore with Noah, and of the seed of Abraham and Israel, and of those We guided and chose. When the signs of the All-merciful were recited to them, they fell down prostrate, weeping. 

Surah 5:71-72. ‘O, People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.’ It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy … those who believe (in the Qur’an), those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Sabaeans and the Christians – any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, – on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.  

Surah 5:69 If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness.

Surah 29:45 Dispute not with the People of the Book, save in the fairer manner, except for those of them that do wrong; and say: ‘We believe in what has been sent down to us, and what has been sent down to you; Our God and your God is One and to Him we have surrendered. 

Surah 10:37 This Qur’an could not have been forged apart from God; but it is a confirmation of what is before it …

Surah 46:11 Before it was the Book of Moses for a model and a mercy; and this is a book confirming in Arabic tongue to warn the evil-doers and good tidings to the good-doers.

Surah 6:91 Who sent down the Book that Moses brought as a light and guidance to men? You put it onto parchments, revealing some, and hiding much; and by which you were taught that you knew not, you and your fathers. Say, ‘God”.

Surah 35:31 And what We have revealed to thee of the Book, is the truth, confirming what is before it.

Sura 2:40-42 Children of Israel … believe in that I have sent down, confirming the revelation that is with you and be not the first to disbelieve in it … and do not confound the truth with vanity and do not conceal the truth wittingly (i.e. concealing the truth against better knowledge)

The above texts presuppose that the Torah was available in an unadulterated form during the time of Mohammed.

Surah 2:87 We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Apostles. We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs and strengthened (or confirmed) him with the Holy Spirit. 

Surah 2:89 And when there comes to them (the Jews) a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them (the Taurat) … they refused to believe in it.

Surah 3:3 He has sent down upon thee the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it and He sent down Torah and the Gospel afore time, as guidance to the People and He sent down salvation.

At least as early as 350 AD, and long before the time of Mohammed, there was a uniform canon of the Bible and nothing has been changed, adulterated, polluted or perverted since.

Sura 21:7 Before thee (i.e. Mohammed), also, the Apostles we sent were but men … If you realise this not, ASK of THOSE WHO POSSESS THE MESSAGE. 

Sura 4:136 BELIEVE IN Allah and His Messenger and the Scripture which He hath revealed unto his Messenger, and THE SCRIPTURE WHICH HE REVEALED AFORETIME. WHOSO DISBELIEVETH IN Allah and His Angles and the Last Day, he verily hath wandered far astray.

Sura 2:285 Each one believeth in Allah and His Angels and His Scriptures and His Messengers – WE MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ANY OF HIS MESSENGERS.

Sura 3:93 Say: Bring you the Torah now and recite (or read) it, if you are men of truth

We see clearly that the accusations against Jews and Christians are not that they have corrupted Scripture, but that they have misinterpreted, concealed or disobeyed it.

Sura 6:34 There is none that can change the Words of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those Apostles (or: the other Apostles also say so).

Muhammed spoken about in the Bible?

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.

Muhammed was not a ”brother” to the jews. Besides, also other cults (like the mormons) claim that their particular prophet is spoken about in this verse.

ISLAM is much like the story of Emperor’s new clothes. The con artists claimed that if someone wouldn’t detect the beauty of the Emperor’s new clothes they were simply stupid, and who wants to be labeled stupid? So despite the fact that people couldn’t even see any clothes, they overlooked this problem and convinced themselves that the clothes were beautiful and even gave remarks as a confirmation of this. The crowd encouraged each other to believe in a lie, and did so until an honest little boy declared the TRUTH which was apparent to all from the start. Muslims need much prayer and there is much joy in heaven each time a muslim repents from his past and become a Bible believing christian.