Sealed UNTO the day of redemption, but a seal can be broken Eph. 4:30

 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed UNTO the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30)

Based on the Greek text the latter part of the above sentence can be translated ”by whom you were sealed FOR the day of redemption”. The preposition ”for” is a translation from the Greek word eis (Strong’s 1519) and apart from ”for” it can mean into, in, among and till. The text does not say ”sealed unconditionally all the way UNTIL the day of redemption no matter our conduct”.  Were sealed” is a translation from ἐσφραγίσθητε (esphragisthēte Strong’s 4972).

There is nothing that suggests that a seal can absolutely not be tampered with! When someone places a seal on something – like the one in the picture here to the left – he doesn’t do this with the idea that no one can remove the seal but to show a unique mark and/or ownership of something. The aim, and the sincere hope, might very well be to see the seal untouched until there is a proper time to remove it, but there is no guarantee that it will remain as it is until that day.

The Greek word sphragizó can mean seal, or set a seal upon, or mark with a seal. We are indeed uniquely ”marked” when we as christians have the Holy Spirit in our lives, and we are separate from those without this mark. When Jesus returns to earth he will save those who have this seal, so we would better keep ourselves sealed.

2 Cor. 122Who hath also SEALED us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

The word is from sphragís (a seal) – to seal (affix) with a signet ring or other instrument to stamp (a roller or seal). Signifies  the full security carried by the backing (full authority) of the owner. ”Sealing” in the ancient world served as a ”legal signature”, and it was sometimes done in antiquity by the use of religious tattoos – again signifying ”belonging to”.

The same word is used for the stone which was blocking the grave of Jesus – and which later was REMOVED.

Matt. 27: 66So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, SEALING the stone, and setting a watch.

Rev.  104And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

The book of Ephesians talks about a corporate election and about the promised future for the body of Christ. The CHURCH or the BODY OF CHRIST was predestined before the creation of the world to enter the Kingdom of God and inherit the promises. The question is if we as individuals choose to belong or not.

Eph. 1: 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the CHURCH23Which is his BODY, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph. 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;—  16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Eph. 1:13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

or:

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption (Eph. 1:13, 14; 4:30).

Read the many warnings in the same chapter of Ephesians 4. The warnings are addressed to believers. The sealing of the Holy Spirit is conditional since we can ”grieve” and eventually ”insult” the Sprit of Grace which means total apostasy.

Hebr. 10 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Only believers can possess the Holy Spirit and no one can enter the Kingdom of God without the Spirit. He is therefore the guarantee of an inheritance for believers and not unbelievers. Through union with Christ we are ”predestined” to adoption and an inheritance as children of God, being ”joint heirs” with Christ (Eph. 1:5, 10-11, cf. Rom. 8:17; Gal. 3:29; 4:7). This is what is in view when Paul speaks of being sealed ”for the day of redemption”.  But we must not assume that this sealing is permanent or unbreakable which the text does not say it is.

What is a guarantee? Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Psalm 5:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

A circumcision was also a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

Rom. 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Rom. 2:25For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law:but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

Acts. 5:32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Rom. 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 6310But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. — 14As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus.

Hebr. 3:6But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end7Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Hebr. 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebr. 6: 11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: 12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Jude 1:5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not

If you’re trapped in Calvinism, do read about the contradictions within TULIP here.

Church Fathers

The Shepherd of Hermas 6(72):3 I say unto him, ”Sir, now then show me concerning those that have given up their rods, what manner of man each of them is, and their abode, that when they hear this, they that believed and have received the seal and have broken it and did not keep it sound may fully understand what they are doing, and repent, receiving from thee a seal, and may glorify the Lord, that He had compassion upon them and sent thee to renew their spirits.”

Clement 7:6 For as concerning them that have not kept the seal, He saith,`Their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be for a spectacle unto all flesh’. 

Clement 8:6 So then He meaneth this, Keep the flesh pure and the seal unstained, to the end that we may receive life.

64 thoughts on “Sealed UNTO the day of redemption, but a seal can be broken Eph. 4:30

  1. Rom. 2:25For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law:but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

    This was used entirely out of context. Notice: Romans 3 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    At this point he changes direction. Prior to Romans 3 21, he was referring to man under the law. BUT NOW is where we are today in the dispensation of grace. Paul is the ONLY apostle to teach the doctrine of grace and since we are in the body of Christ, and he is the Apostle of the Gentiles, you must follow his teachings (actually Christ’s teachings through Paul). If you do not rightly divide Gods word (II Tim 2:15), you will mix things up and not understand the message for us today…

    Gilla

    • Not sure if this is spam or not?

      <<Paul is the ONLY apostle to teach the doctrine of grace

      Not only Paul spoke about grace, but others did too. What does grace mean?

      Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

      So the offer of salvation is given to ALL MEN, and it's a power to live free of sin.

      God bless

      Gilla

    • I agree with you, jw skriver, it’s taken out of context. This Article is adding to the Bible what it should not. What does God warn to those who add to His word? Maybe read Rev again. Whomever wrote this article should be double checking and begging for forgiveness from God for leading people away from what God promises. Either you believe Christ or you don’t when He promises to give you eternal life forever by believing in Him without any conditions (john6).

      To the person who wrote this, ill ask you the same things that I asked a couple of other nimrods who were trying to push on me the same thing of what you’re trying to convince people is truth.
      Logically, a person is only saved by Christ’s Spirit being in a person (1 john 4:13) which He freely gives to those who believe in Him. Yes, no? Show me a Bible verse that specifically says (not your man-made assumption) Christ’s Spirit leaves a believer because of x, y, or z. Show me a Bible verse that says the Holy Spirit’s seal is broken because of our own actions. Btw, ephesians passage that you quoted doesn’t count because it doesn’t state that seal as being conditional but you pulled verses out of your ass and ADDED to God’s word!

      Here’s an even simpler question for you: what does being saved even mean? What is one saved from? Hell? Lake of fire? Not having a life of honor in the Kingdom of God? Yeah, we Christians can be in heaven but not get to take part in being a useful vessel for Christ in His Kingdom. Read up on it! Also, is shell and lake of fire same thing? Read rev 20 to find out.

      Last question, is moses eternally saved? According to his story of hitting the rock moses should be burning in hell –separated from God for eternity because he hit that rock in Numbers. Yet, the disciples still witnessed Moses talking with Jesus on the mount during His transfiguration in the new testament. So explain that away. Oh, and don’t say that moses was a part of the old law and therefore his case for being eternally saved in New law terms is void. Saying that the old testament doesn’t apply is an easy comp-out (not even a comp-out because you can’t have the old testament without the new). Also, I haven’t been able to find in the Bible where moses ended up repenting from hitting that rock. So, is moses eternally saved? He still got to see the promised land but not enter it.

      Hope I don’t sound too harsh, but I’m really tired of running across people who share your ideology and try to corrupt what the savior of the world has established. You can’t make your own righteousness to save yourself, only Christ can save.

      Gilla

      • Hello there

        Hope you’re well today!

        << Either you believe Christ or you don't when He promises to give you eternal life forever by believing in Him without any conditions (john6).

        You referred to John 6, but I'm afraid it doesn't say what you claim there. Remember to not add to the Bible 🙂
        There are numerous conditions listed in John 6. Do read my article about it when you get a chance. We can read that we must be COME and BELIEVE, as well as eating his bread. God draws (we can't be saved unless he draws), but all don't come. Those who do come him are all drawn.

        <<Logically, a person is only saved by Christ's Spirit being in a person (1 john 4:13) which He freely gives to those who believe in Him. Yes, no?

        Yes, if you by that also mean that OBEYING him a is also a requirement for getting the holy Ghost (Acts 5:32)

        << Show me a Bible verse that says the Holy Spirit's seal is broken because of our own actions.

        A seal can be broken, so if you claim it can't it's up to you to prove. Judas was provided spiritual gifts (ability to drive out demons, heal, etc) by Jesus, but he isn't saved. We can definitely lose our salvation due to our actions. Read John 15. A branch can be cut off from the vine due to lack of fruit. The prodigal son went from life, to death, to life again.

        <<Btw, ephesians passage that you quoted doesn't count because it doesn't state that seal as being conditional but you pulled verses out of your ass and ADDED to God's word!

        It's conditional.

        << Yeah, we Christians can be in heaven but not get to take part in being a useful vessel for Christ in His Kingdom.

        ????

        <<Last question, is moses eternally saved? According to his story of hitting the rock moses should be burning in hell –separated from God for eternity because he hit that rock in Numbers.

        The Bible says that anyone can become forgiven if he/she confesses his/her sins and repent. Moses included.

        << Also, I haven't been able to find in the Bible where moses ended up repenting from hitting that rock.

        So cats and mashed potatoes don't exist because they are not in the Bible? Does it say Moses did NOT repent?

        <<Hope I don't sound too harsh,

        You do sound both harsh and hateful. Ask yourself if you truly have the love of God in your heart and able to be patient with others when you speak about the word of God.

        <<You can't make your own righteousness to save yourself, only Christ can save.

        Since I've never claimed we can save ourselves, I'm not quite following you. There are conditions for salvation however. Who is righteous? Those who DO righteousness:

        1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

        We are asked to not be deceived about this, so be careful about those who claim that we can be saved by leading on Christ's righteousness alone. WE have to be righteous.

        God bless

        Gilla

      • God’s seal can only be broken by God and He will not break it!

        The moment a person is born again that person is already glorified in God’s eyes! Rom 8:30

        No one who is truly born again will ever be lost again! John 10:28-29

        Ove (missionary in Brazil 1991-2006 and teacher in a Bible school while in Brazil)

        Check my last book by clicking LUCIFER BY OVE LACKELL on Google God bless those who grows in their Bible knowledge!

        2 Tim 2:15, James 3:1

        Ove

        Gilla

      • Hey Ove

        <<God’s seal can only be broken by God and He will not break it!

        He will definitely break it due to bad conduct on our part. Compare with God's eternal covenant with Israel, which was supposed to be forever. Israel broke it.

        <<The moment a person is born again that person is already glorified in God’s eyes! Rom 8:30

        That is good news to know that our sins are forgiven before we even commit then and that we can afford to serve two masters and still be saved. (Being ironic…)

        <<No one who is truly born again will ever be lost again! John 10:28-29

        It's important to also add. v. 27 so that we can understand who the promise is about. It's about the sheep who FOLLOW him, so as long as we do this we are safe.

        God bless

        Gilla

  2. Hi, you say that the text does not say ”(unto) the day of redemption” so then why does the king jmaes version say this? please explain
    thanks

    Gilla

    • Hey Roy

      No, I said that the text does not say ”UNTIL” the day of redemption. It says UNTO, and apart from ”unto” it can mean ”FOR”.

      (I highlighted it now, and also added a link.)

      God bless

      Gilla

  3. Sir, please reference Ephesians 2:8. See the Father’s role in salvation John 17, John 6:44, as well as repentance being something God gives (2 Timothy 2:25).

    Thank you,
    Dan

    Gilla

    • Hello

      I’m not a Sir, but that’s alright.
      I’ve made articles also about Eph. 2:8, where we can see that salvation (not faith) is a gift, and that it’s something that we can’t earn by anything we do. We can get this free gift through faith, which is required from us. Salvation is free but not without conditions, or else Jesus wouldn’t preach ”repent or perish”. I’ve also written an article about John 6:44 and the many conditions involved, as well as John 17.

      GBU

      Gilla

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  5. You are missing one very important thing about being ”sealed”. All of the examples of ”sealed” that you have given are mans seals. This seal is by GOD! The same God that has promised to keep us through HIS power, not ours. 1 Peter 1:5

    Gilla

    • Hey im

      Nowhere in the Bible will you see the claim that a person is ”sealed” with the meaning of not being able to lose his grip in Christ no matter what he does. As I wrote, having a ”seal” often means to have a ”mark” as in being very special, and we as christians with the holy Spirit are indeed ”a peculiar people”. We are marked as long as we remain in the vine, but a branch can be cut off the vine due to lack of fruit. If a marked born again christian could never lose his grip in Christ, he could definitely afford to hate, refuse to forgive a brother, deny Jesus, take the mark of the beast, and still be saved. That would be a license to sin.It’s also true that we can never save ourselves through our power.

      Gilla

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  7. The only thing that is totally secure in a born again Christian´s life is his eternal salvation. God looks at that person as ”glorified” before is actually happens! Rom 8:30.
    That person´s name is written in the Lamb´s book of Life before he/she is even born. Rev 13:8, 17:8
    And it can´t be removed!
    A minister who explain this well is William MacDonald.

    Please don´t write anything else on internet until you understand this thing.
    James 3:1
    God bless you!
    Ove Lackell (missionary in Brazil 1991-2006)

    Gilla

    • Hey Ove

      Truly wonderful to have been a missionary. For so long! In Brazil!

      I’m not quite in agreement with you about the way you describe eternal salvation, but maybe it’s only the way you express it 🙂 Who gets eternal life? The one who obeys Jesus (Hebr. 5:9). Jesus tells us that a branch can be cut off the vine due to lack of fruit, etc. I’ve written blog posts about the verses you mention, but they might be buried in everything else I’ve written…If we would be eternally secure no matter what (after being born again), then we could absolutely afford to hate a brother, disown Jesus and take the mark of the beast. A person can be removed from the book of life, and there is only one book of life:

      https://bjorkbloggen.com/2012/04/22/there-is-only-one-book-of-life-and-names-can-be-removed-from-it/

      GBU

      Gilla

      • Hi again

        Instead of me explaining ETERNAL SECURITY to you I encourage you to read some things that real balanced ministers wrote on this.

        A born again Christian will always try to live holy, but he fails sometimes.

        This is real basic stuff, and I encourage you to study more on this.

        Writing on internet is a serious thing.
        James 3:1, 2 Tim 2:15

        Every born again Christian will meet Jesus at the Judgment Seat of Christ one day
        Rom 14:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15, 2 Cor 5:10

        And He will judge us in 4 basic areas:

        1. How we permitted him to form our character.
        Rom 8:29, Gal 2:20, 4:19

        2. How we did His works.
        Eph 2:10, 1 Cor 13:1-13

        3. How we understood and taught the Word of God.
        James 3:1, 2 Tim 2:15, Eph 4:11-15

        4. How we prayed.
        Col 1:9-12

        God bless you, my friend!
        Ove

        Gilla

      • Hey Ove

        Thanks for your input. (However, I removed the book titles, because I’m concerned what is promoted on my blog.)

        I’m pleased to see that we’re in agreement that we will also be judged based on our works (permitting him to form our character and deciding to do his works are issues that are dependent on us). In fact, we will get eternal life if we have lived righteous lives. Naturally we must first be cleansed from our sins in the blood of Jesus.

        Ja. 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.

        Who is righteous? We are told to not be deceived about this.

        1Jn 3:7 Little children, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU: he that DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, even as he is righteous.

        Only the righteous will be saved. If it’s true that we are eternally secure as soon as we are born again and that nothing can change this position, then it wouldn’t be a ”serious matter” if I write the contrary on my blog, because what are the risks at stake? Christians can’t lose their salvation, and the word of God is still spread for the rest.

        In reality, sins continue to separate us from God. It was Satan who spread the opposite story and continues to do so. ”Ye shall not surely die”, is what Satan wants us to believe.

        We must stay alert. I write a lot about these issues.

        Have a great day, and GBU

        Gilla

  8. John 3:16 – For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM should NOT PERISH, but have *EVERLASTING life*.

    Gilla

    • Amen, and what happens if we truly believe him and love him?

      John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

      Gilla

      • But did John 3:16 say ”whosoever believeth in Him *AND* keep His commandments should not perish, but have everlasting life”???? No, it said whosoever *BELIEVETH*. Keeping the commandments or the law does not justify anyone. If you say so, then you are adding works to salvation. Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 say differently.

        We are are a *PURCHASED POSSESION*:

        Ephesians 1:11-14 — In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being *predestinated* according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first *trusted in Christ*. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye *believed*, ye were *SEALED* WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE, WHICH IS THE* EARNEST OF OUR INHERITANCE* *UNTIL THE REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION*, unto the praise of his glory.

        We are a purchased possession. The Holy Spirit is sealed in us UNTIL the day of our redemption. Not until we sin… Also, our salvation was PREDESTINED. So, if we’re saved, and our salvation was PREDESTINED, how do we lose salvation? How can the Holy Spirit become unsealed from a believer if it was predestined for us TO be saved and SEALED?

        Gilla

      • Hello Brandon

        <<But did John 3:16 say "whosoever believeth in Him *AND* keep His commandments should not perish, but have everlasting life"????

        John 3:16 is one verse in the Bible. There are other verses in the Bible and many of them give further details. If you truly BELIEVE in Jesus and if you truly LOVE him, you obey his commandments. If you don't obey the commandments it shows that you don't really love him above everything else.

        << Keeping the commandments or the law does not justify anyone. If you say so, then you are adding works to salvation.

        Ja. 2:24 24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.

        <<Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 say differently.

        None of those passages claim that we can be saved without works. We don't earn salvation, we can't be saved without Jesus, and we can't be saved by works alone or by faith alone.

        <<We are are a *PURCHASED POSSESION*:

        People who are bought can still destructed:

        2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that BOUGHT THEM, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

        <<Ephesians 1:11-14 ye were *SEALED* WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE,

        This begs the question if you even read the article under which you are writing? A seal can mean "marked". A seal can be broken.

        <<The Holy Spirit is sealed in us UNTIL the day of our redemption.

        Did you read the article? If you did, you would notice my point that it doesn't say "UNTIL" but "UNTO".

        <<Also, our salvation was PREDESTINED.

        Actually, it doesn't say that. It was something you added. IF our salvation was predestined, then GOD must be blamed when people refuse to believe in him. Did they have a choice?

        <<So, if we're saved, and our salvation was PREDESTINED, how do we lose salvation?

        False premise since our salvation was not predestined. We lose our salvation if we sin, just like the Bible says. It's Satan who says that we will NOT die if we sin. Jesus says the opposite. And a person can be cut off from the vine due to lack of fruit.

        <<How can the Holy Spirit become unsealed from a believer if it was predestined for us TO be saved and SEALED?

        Read the article.

        GBU

        Gilla

      • You said that the Bible doesn’t say that our salvation wasn’t predestined:

        ”Actually, it doesn’t say that. It was something you added. IF our salvation was predestined, then GOD must be blamed when people refuse to believe in him. Did they have a choice?”

        Ephesians 1:11 says differently:

        11 — In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being *PREDESTINATED* according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL:

        Since I have proven that salvation IS predestined and that I haven’t added ANYTHING, you now have to answer the questions about whether we can lose our salvation and whether or not we can become unsealed when it was all predestined… This also proves that ”People who are bought can still destructed:” is NOT true UNLESS you mean that they can PHYSICALLY die. A saved person’s ETERNAL security is NOT taken away from them.
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        ”None of those passages claim that we can be saved without works”

        Romans 4:5 — But to him that *WORKETH NOT*, but *BELIEVETH ON HIM* that justifieth the ungodly, *HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS*.

        Ephesians 2:8-9 — For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God: *NOT OF WORKS*, lest any man should boast. 

        Titus 3:5-7 —  Not by *WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS* which we have done, but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his *GRACE*, we should be made heirs according to the hope of *ETERNAL LIFE*.

        So again, works don’t save AND you don’t NEED them to be justified. You cannot claim that a person has to work for their salvation to be saved and then turn around and say that salvation isn’t of ourselves. As stated in Romans 4:5, a believer doesn’t need to ”work”. He only needs FAITH to be JUSTIFIED.
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        Of course most go to James 2:18-26 to defend faith and works salvation, but then forget that a man is justified by faith and works in MAN’S eyes:

        James 2:18 — Yea, A *MAN* MAY SAY, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        ”Did you read the article? If you did, you would notice my point that it doesn’t say ”UNTIL” but ”UNTO”.”

        Did you read Ephesians 1:11-14 (specifically verse 14)? Instead of saying:

        ”*UNTO* the redemption of the purchased possession”,

        this verse(s) actually says:

        ”*UNTIL* the redemption of the purchased possession” (I used the KJV for all Scripture):

        Ephesians 1:11-14 — In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance *UNTIL* the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

        Now you can’t say that we aren’t sealed ”UNTIL” our redemption because Ephesians 1:14 says otherwise.
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        John 3:16 says that WHOSOEVER *BELIEVETH* IN HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life. It did NOT say believe in Him *AND* keep His commandments (although a Christian SHOULD keep His commandments). These are the 2 commandments which sum up the law and the prophets:

        Matthew 22:37-40 — Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt *love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind*. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, * Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.*

        God bless you!!!

        Gilla

      • Hey Brandon

        <<11 — In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being *PREDESTINATED* according to the purpose of HIM WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL:

        Where does it say that individuals are predestined to salvation? It doesn't. Do read my articles about Eph 1 which is about a corporate election. From the creation of the world it was decided and predestined that the body of Christ (the church) will get an inheritance with Jesus. The body of Christ WILL get to heaven. Anyone can join the bus going to heaven.

        <<Since I have proven that salvation IS predestined and that I haven't added ANYTHING,

        Sorry you didn't prove it. IF you did prove it, you're blaming God for all people that are lost.

        <<you now have to answer the questions about whether we can lose our salvation and whether or not we can become unsealed when it was all predestined…

        I already did. Did you do your homework by reading the article under which you are writing? There you will see that "sealed" can mean "marked", and that it can be broken. A branch can be cut off from the vine and thrown in the fire. If you deny Jesus, he will deny you. If you take the mark of the beast, you're lost, etc.

        <<This also proves that "People who are bought can still destructed:" is NOT true UNLESS you mean that they can PHYSICALLY die.

        Did you read the verse where I proved it, or do you always ignore verses that you don't agree with?

        <<Romans 4:5 — But to him that *WORKETH NOT*, but *BELIEVETH ON HIM* that justifieth the ungodly, *HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS*.

        Paul is talking about Jewish law. He is often trying to get the Jews to understand that the requirement is to believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, and a new era has come. They are not bound by the law of MOSE and the 613 laws, but they are certainly not free from the moral law which has applied every since Adam. Do read my article about this verse as well. Verses should not be read in a vacuum, and we don't get to ignore verses we don't like. Paul is not saying that we are now free to murder, steal and lie and still be saved. He doesn't agree with Satan who claims that we won't die.
        <<
        Ephesians 2:8-9 — For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God: *NOT OF WORKS*, lest any man should boast.

        We are not saved by the works of the LAW, and we are not saved by faith alone without works of God. I'm able to reconcile the verses in the Bible and you seem to ignore verses you don't like. I take it you don't agree with James, or with Paul who tell us in many places that unrighteousness leads to death?

        <<Titus 3:5-7 — Not by *WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS* which we have done,—

        Neither this verse disagrees with the idea that faith without works is dead. Or does your Bible not say that faith without works is dead?

        <<So again, works don't save

        Correct, but you're not saved without works. Not according to the law of God, but we're supposed to be faithful to Jesus according to the new testament.

        << AND you don't NEED them to be justified.

        Hmm. James disagrees with you:

        Ja 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED, and not by faith only.

        <<You cannot claim that a person has to work for their salvation to be saved

        James was the one claiming that, and the other apostles agree with him. Jesus tells us to cut off body parts if they make us sin, in order to not end up in Gehenna.

        <<and then turn around and say that salvation isn't of ourselves.

        Works could save us if we did not sin at any time. This doesn't seem to be the case with humanity, and this means the only other option is to saved by faith which means we first need to repent and be cleansed in the blood of Jesus. But it doesn't say "once cleansed always cleansed". If we sin again, we're lost again. And if we don't do any good works, we're lost. Works alone won't save us.

        <<As stated in Romans 4:5, a believer doesn't need to "work". He only needs FAITH to be JUSTIFIED.

        Rom. 4:5 is talking about the law of Mose, and Ja 2:24 tells us that we are justified by works combined with out faith.

        <<Of course most go to James 2:18-26 to defend faith and works salvation, but then forget that a man is justified by faith and works in MAN'S eyes:

        That is an often claim, but he is comparing with Abraham and the offering of Isaac where NO MAN was present. (The servant stood behind.) So it was before GOD*S eyes. God even said "Now I know…." when he noticed Abraham willing to offer his son. And James gives examples of works that man might do. Also compare with the sheep and the goats who stood before God, and where God tells them that whatever good works they did, they did for HIM.

        <<"I wrote: Did you read the article? If you did, you would notice my point that it doesn't say "UNTIL" but "UNTO"."

        I notice you didn't answer this question. Did you read it or not?

        <<Did you read Ephesians 1:11-14 (specifically verse 14)?

        Yes, I've written an article about it.

        << "*UNTIL* the redemption of the purchased possession" (I used the KJV for all Scripture):

        We were talking about Eph. 1:30. You incorrectly wrote "The Holy Spirit is sealed in us UNTIL the day of our redemption", but the Bible nowhere say this. It says UNTO. The day is to be cleansed and marked on, for or unto the day of salvation. It doesn't say "until".

        <<Now you can't say that we aren't sealed "UNTIL" our redemption because Ephesians 1:14 says otherwise.

        It doesn't say it.

        << John 3:16 says that WHOSOEVER *BELIEVETH* IN HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life. It did NOT say believe in Him *AND* keep His commandments (although a Christian SHOULD keep His commandments). These are the 2 commandments which sum up the law and the prophets:

        So you agree with that there are commandments/laws we should obey after all? Make up your mind.

        God bless

        Gilla

      • You said:
        ”Where does it say that individuals are predestined to salvation?”

        You didn’t even pay attention to Ephesians 1:11-14 (I know Ephesians 4:30, not 1:30, said ”unto”):

        In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that YE BELIEVED, ye were SEALED with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance *UNTIL* the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (KJV)

        When a person becomes born again they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Is that not true??? That should be common sense! If it is predestined for a person to be sealed with the spirit until (NOT UNTO like Ephesians 4:30 said. This actually says ”until”) their redemption, they can’t lose something that God has already PREDESTINED them to have!
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        ”Paul is talking about Jewish law. He is often trying to get the Jews to understand that the requirement is to believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, and a new era has come. They are not bound by the law of MOSE and the 613 laws, but they are certainly not free from the moral law which has applied every since Adam. Do read my article about this verse as well. Verses should not be read in a vacuum, and we don’t get to ignore verses we don’t like. Paul is not saying that we are now free to murder, steal and lie and still be saved. He doesn’t agree with Satan who claims that we won’t die.”

        Romans 4:1-5 — What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? *For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; BUT NOT BEFORE GOD*. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

        Where was the Jewish law mentioned???? This is talking about WORKS! Of course a Christian is not free to murder, steal and lie. We are not permitted by God to sin at all and we have no excuses to sin. GOD doesn’t condone ANY sin!
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        ”We are not saved by the works of the LAW, and we are not saved by faith alone without works of God. I’m able to reconcile the verses in the Bible and you seem to ignore verses you don’t like. I take it you don’t agree with James, or with Paul who tell us in many places that unrighteousness leads to death?”

        Ephesians 2:8-9 didn’t say we were saved by the works of the law, it said NOT OF WORKS! (you just added to salvation). Again, James does not teach works + faith salvation. Did you completely ignore James 2:18 which says that a MAN MAY SAY (Yea, a *MAN* may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works). This is a MAN saying that a person needs faith plus works!
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        ”Titus 3:5-7 — Not by *WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS* which we have done,—”

        ”Neither this verse disagrees with the idea that faith without works is dead. Or does your Bible not say that faith without works is dead?”

        I answered James 2 already. Faith + works justifies in MAN’S eyes. (James 2:18 — Yea, a MAN may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.) Your faith looks dead to MAN!
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        ”I wrote: Did you read the article? If you did, you would notice my point that it doesn’t say ”UNTIL” but ”UNTO”.”

        ”I notice you didn’t answer this question. Did you read it or not?”

        Yes, I read the part about the greek not meaning ”until” in Ephesians *4*:30, not 1:30… I also countered this with Ephesians 1:14 which doesn’t say the purchased possesion is sealed ”unto”, but ”until” the day of his redemption! After that, verse 14 continues with ”unto the praise of his glory”. This means that we are sealed *UNTIL* our redemption!
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        ”So you agree with that there are commandments/laws we should obey after all? Make up your mind.”

        I actually said that a Christian SHOULD keep Christ’s commandments.

        Direct quote from me:

        ”It did NOT say believe in Him *AND* keep His commandments (although a Christian SHOULD keep His commandments)”
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
         ”But it doesn’t say ”once cleansed always cleansed”. If we sin again, we’re lost again. And if we don’t do any good works, we’re lost. Works alone won’t save us.”

        So Jesus blood WASN’T enough to wash my sins away???? His work on the cross wasn’t enough to purify me??? I have to do extra to be saved (even though salvation is NOT of myself)???

        Gilla

      • Hey Brandon

        <<You didn’t even pay attention to Ephesians 1:11-14 (I know Ephesians 4:30, not 1:30, said ”unto”):

        Those verses don't say that God chooses some individuals for salvation and damns the rest. Did you read what I said about corporate election?

        <<When a person becomes born again they are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Is that not true???

        Yes. Marked, as the special people we are. This doesn't mean that people are not able to choose to NOT obey the spirit. Even king David, a man of God's own heart, chose to sin quite severely for quite some time. We can read in Ezekiel that a person who no longer lives in righteousness will die for it. But anyone can repent of course.

        <<If it is predestined for a person to be sealed with the spirit until—-

        The verse doesn't phrase it like that. Yes, the body of Christ is predestined to inherit the kingdom, and believers are predestined to get the holy Spirit. That is the plan, and it will take place. The body of Christ WILL enter heaven, and God knew from the start that there will be a group of people who are believers. Anyone can join the body of Christ.

        <<Romans 4:1-5 ——-

        Paul is making the point that Abraham was righteous and justified without the law of Mose, which was yet in the future. That would be proof of that you can be saved without the law (of Moses). The Jews still believed they had to obey some of all of the 613 laws, but Paul is trying to get them to understand that it's faith in Jesus that is required. And of course, if you believe and love Jesus you obey him. How do we know if we are children of God? If we DO righteousness:

        1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever DOETH not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

        James 2 makes it clear that the righteous things we do, they are BEFORE GOD. I made the comparison with the sheep and the goats.

        <<Where was the Jewish law mentioned????

        "The law" often means the law of Moses. It's shorter.

        <<This is talking about WORKS!

        Yes works according to the law. The law of Moses. But it's also true that you can't be saved by works (alone), since faith is required that that you're cleansed from your sins. In this way works can't save you. But we can't ignore James (and the other authors) who claim that we will DIE if we sin.

        <<Of course a Christian is not free to murder, steal and lie. We are not permitted by God to sin at all and we have no excuses to sin. GOD doesn’t condone ANY sin!

        Amen, which means that there are still commandments which we must obey. Keeping the commandments, including treating others like we would like to be treated – would be works. We can't be saved without it according to James, and I believe him.

        <<Ephesians 2:8-9 didn’t say we were saved by the works of the law, it said NOT OF WORKS!

        And I say amen. See above. Just doing works won't save us. And keep reading also v. 10 (a verse which isn't so popular due to what it says). It says that we must WALK unto good WORKS. What happens if we refuse to do those good works? Still saved? Despite that Jesus himself says that a branch can be cut off the vine due to lack of fruit?

        << Again, James does not teach works + faith salvation.

        Yes he does. He says "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only". How much more clear can it get? And he spends the entire chapter explaining that we must DO various things to be saved – showing good fruit. If faith alone saves us, then Satan is saved as well.

        <<Did you completely ignore James 2:18 which says that a MAN MAY SAY (Yea, a *MAN* may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works). This is a MAN saying that a person needs faith plus works!

        Are you joking with me? That is a strange way to interpret that verse. Read also the verses prior to this verse and after it. The message is clear. The verse before says

        "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is DEAD, being alone."

        A couple of verses later he says:

        "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

        You're making a mistake by reading single verses in a vacuum.

        <<”Titus 3:5-7 — Not by *WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS* which we have done,—”

        No matter how much good works we're done, we're still not saved if we are not cleansed and if we don't have Jesus.

        << Faith + works justifies in MAN’S eyes.

        Not what the Bible says. James point is the exact opposite. People might believe they are decent people and deserve salvation due to their faith and due to not sinning so much, but God required faithfulness and righteousness from us.

        << This means that we are sealed *UNTIL* our redemption!

        If you're a christian, you certainly don't lose the spirit.

        <I actually said that a Christian SHOULD keep Christ’s commandments.

        Oh ok, so it's optional? They should, but should they decide to not obey them, they are still saved and won't die? Just like Satan says?

        <<So Jesus blood WASN’T enough to wash my sins away????

        Sure, but repentance is required. It doesn't say that you're cleansed even though you live in sin.

        <<I have to do extra to be saved (even though salvation is NOT of myself)???

        You certainly do have to do extra to be saved. The cross you have to carry isn't light as a feather. Jesus didn't die so that you can sin in peace. We are told that we must endure to the END to be saved.

        Do people end up in hell due their failure to not being predestined to heaven but being predestined to hell? If they are predestined to hell from the beginning of the world, can they change this path? If no, God alone must be blamed for all sinners.

        GBU

        Gilla

      • ”Those verses don’t say that God chooses some individuals for salvation and damns the rest. Did you read what I said about corporate election?”

        Predestined means that God already KNOWS who will be saved. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, but have EVERLASTING life (John 3:16).

        God knows who will be saved and who won’t be!!
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        ”Faith + works justifies in MAN’S eyes.

        Not what the Bible says. James point is the exact opposite. ”

        So James 2:18 doesn’t start off saying ”Yea, a MAN may say…”?
        Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 both make it perfectly clear that we are not saved of works and neither do we have to ”work” to stay or be justified…. Saying that Ephesians 2:8-9 was talking about ”works of the law” is adding to the word (which Deuteronomy commands NOT to do). It says ”NOT OF WORKS”. ”Of the law” isn’t mentioned afterward…..
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        ”You certainly do have to do extra to be saved.”

        Then salvation isn’t only of God. Salvation is of myself to since I have to do extra… (Ephesians 2:8 — For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God:)
        Now that we have established that there is NOTHING we can do to justify ourselves before God, was Jesus’ blood ENOUGH to WASH my sins away? Was His WORK ON THE CROSS *ENOUGH* to save, or is salvation of ourselves too since we have to do extra?
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        ”If you’re a christian, you certainly don’t lose the spirit.:”

        That’s what I’ve been trying to say the ENTIRE TIME! I’ve BEEN trying to tell you that we’re a purchased possession and used Ephesians 1:11-14, which says that the Holy Spirit is the EARNEST OF OUR INHERITANCE! Our eternal security is GUARANTEED! Read Ephesians 1:13-14:

        In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise, Which is the EARNEST OF OUR INHERITANCE *UNTIL* the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

        The verses above prove that the Holy Spirit is sealed *UNTIL* the day of redemption.
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        ”Oh ok, so it’s optional? They should, but should they decide to not obey them, they are still saved and won’t die? Just like Satan says?”

        A Christian should ALWAYS obey Christ, but do we NOT fall short? So you HAVEN’T fallen short since the day you got saved? You haven’t sinned SINCE???

        (1 John 1:8-10 — If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.)
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        ”Do people end up in hell due their failure to not being predestined to heaven but being predestined to hell? If they are predestined to hell from the beginning of the world, can they change this path? If no, God alone must be blamed for all sinners.”

        People end up in hell for NOT putting their faith in Jesus Christ. People HAVE THE CHOICE to either accept Christ’s work on the cross or REJECT it. A person cannot blame God for going to hell. That sounds like something an atheist would say… God KNOWS who will be saved and who WON’T BE! God knew that Adam would sin, but was He at fault for knowing? NO! Adam STILL had the choice to either OBEY God or NOT obey Him. Adam chose the latter, and thus, sin came into the world. Also, our salvation is apart of God’s will:

        Ephesians 1:11 — In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the PURPOSE OF HIM WHO WORKETH *ALL THINGS* AFTER THE COUNSEL OF *HIS OWN WILL*:

        Not only is Paul saying that the obtaining of our inheritance is apart of Gods’s will, but that *ALL THINGS* are apart of God’s will:

        ”…WHO WORKETH THE COUNSEL OF *ALL THINGS* AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL”

        The argument that God would be at fault or people going to hell because of His will is weak…
        ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖
        ”Oh ok, so it’s optional? They should, but should they decide to not obey them, they are still saved and won’t die? Just like Satan says?”

        I agree that keeping Christs commandments (Loving God and loving others) is something that EVERY CHRISTIAN SHOULD DO! BUT, THEY DO NOT SAVE!

        Gilla

      • Hey Brandon

        <<Predestined means that God already KNOWS who will be saved.

        Knowing who will be saved is one thing, predestining someone to be saved is something else. The Bibel doesn't say that God predestines individuals for salvation/damnation.

        <<So James 2:18 doesn’t start off saying ”Yea, a MAN may say…”?

        Of course he does, and did you read what I said about it? Did you read the verses before and after as I suggested?

        <<Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 both make it perfectly clear that we are not saved of works and neither do we have to ”work” to stay or be justified….

        Again, it's about Paul's attempt to get the Jews to understand that we are not saved due to obeying the 613 Jewish commandments in the law of Moses. I've already given you loads of verses which clearly show that we are doomed without works – that type of "works" that we are supposed to WALK in as per Eph. 2:10. Here are 150 things we must DO to get saved according to the Bible:

        https://bjorkbloggen.com/2015/07/08/150-things-we-must-do-to-get-saved-and-the-myth-of-salvation-by-faith-alone/

        <<Then salvation isn’t only of God. Salvation is of myself to since I have to do extra…

        Of course salvation is only of God. We are 100% lost without him, so salvation is only due to his mercy.

        <<(Ephesians 2:8 —

        A verse which doesn't say that we are free to sin and still be saved. Don't forget v. 10

        <<Now that we have established that there is NOTHING we can do to justify ourselves before God, was Jesus’ blood ENOUGH to WASH my sins away?

        Of course it was. Jesus died for the world, right? Does this mean that the people of the whole world are cleansed in the blood of Jesus and saved? OR, is there a requirement that they must repent, believe and WALK in the good works which God prepared for us?

        << I’ve BEEN trying to tell you that we’re a purchased possession and used Ephesians 1:11-14,

        I've already showed you that people can be purchased and still lost. Then they are no more christians.

        << which says that the Holy Spirit is the EARNEST OF OUR INHERITANCE! Our eternal security is GUARANTEED! Read Ephesians 1:13-14:

        Nowhere does it say that salvation is guaranteed. But maybe good news for you, because that means you can refuse to forgive a brother, deny Jesus and take the mark of the beast – and still be saved. Very convenient.

        << ye were SEALED with that HOLY SPIRIT

        Sealed means marked. A seal can be boken.

        <<The verses above prove that the Holy Spirit is sealed *UNTIL* the day of redemption.

        The verses still don't say that.

        <<A Christian should ALWAYS obey Christ, but do we NOT fall short?

        Every day? Every week? Every month? If we can afford to sin on a daily basis and still be saved, then it IS optional to obey God or not. Your teaching is that it's not important to obey God, because we're guaranteed salvation regardless of what we do.

        <<(1 John 1:8-10 — If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.)

        You tend to forget exactly those verses which show that we must do things to be saved. The verse before this says:

        "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth"

        So, if we walk in darkness (if we sin), we LIE and we are not doing the truth. This means we are lost. Or is there not one minute when you can say "I have no sin"? Not even one minute after you have repented? Do you sin around the clock?

        << People end up in hell for NOT putting their faith in Jesus Christ.

        How could they put their faith in Jesus if they are not predestined to do that?

        << People HAVE THE CHOICE to either accept Christ’s work on the cross or REJECT it.

        Not if they are predestined to heaven/hell.

        <<A person cannot blame God for going to hell.

        Why not, if they are predestined to hell by God?

        << God KNOWS who will be saved and who WON’T BE!

        Knowing is one thing. Predestining is something completely different.

        << NO! Adam STILL had the choice to either OBEY God or NOT obey Him.

        Yes, meaning your doctrine is false.

        <<Ephesians 1:11 — In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the PURPOSE OF HIM WHO WORKETH *ALL THINGS* AFTER THE COUNSEL OF *HIS OWN WILL*:

        Ok, so do you interpret that verse as though nothing happens against God's will? So did Adam sin against God's will or according to God's will?

        << ”…WHO WORKETH THE COUNSEL OF *ALL THINGS* AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL”

        Could it be according to God's will to create man with free will and responsible for his own actions?

        << I agree that keeping Christs commandments (Loving God and loving others) is something that EVERY CHRISTIAN SHOULD DO! BUT, THEY DO NOT SAVE!

        So it's optional and not important. According to you christians are no different than atheists since we all sin. And christians can afford to sin because they still won't die. Just like Satan says. Whose side are you on?

        GBU

        Gilla

    • Lägg av! Om du tror att en född på nytt kristen kan förlora sin frälsning så vet du inget om frälsningens eviga säkerhet och du borde stänga din blogg därför att du lurar okunniga kristna spädbarn!

      Gilla

      • Om omvändelse och frälsning innebär att man garanterat kommer att nå himmelriket oavsett hur man lever, ja då khar man förstås råd med att inte förlåta en broder, förneka Jesus under förföljelser och även ta vilddjurets märke. Bibeln lär inte att korset vi ska bära är fjäderlätt.

        Gilla

    • Please note that the word ”believe” in John 3:16 is from the Greek ”pisteuon” which is a present tense verb thus translated as ”believing.” As such, it does not refer to a one-time moment of belief in the past as to when one trusted and believed in Jesus as one’s Savior. Rather, one must continue to believe in order to have eternal life. We are purchased with the blood of the Lamb when we believe BUT that belief must be continued throughout one’s lifetime. Heb 5:9 has the same present tense verb construction when it come to obedience – ”and having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all those OBEYING Him.” Remaining sealed requires both ongoing belief and ongoing obedience. Disbelief and disobedience grieves and breaks the Spirit’s seal disqualifying those from their inheritance.

      Gilla

  9. I agree with your article, and your views on faith and works and salvation. However, I am sure that it is a gross oversimplificatiion to say that Paul’s ”negative” statements are about the Law of Moses not the ”Moral Law.” There are these same ”negative” statements about the Law applied to the ”Moral Laws”: Rom. 7:7; 2Cor. 3; 1Tim. 1:8-11. So I am sure that this understanding is an oversimplification of what Paul was really saying, clearly, and therefore error.

    Gilla

    • Hey there and thanks for your message.

      We know of Paul’s opinion about the law of Moses – like the many Jewish ceremonial laws that are no longer required for being considered right before God. Circumcision should therefore not be taught as a requirement – an oft mentioned theme. The law of Moses was God’s law (first brought to the Jews during Exodus), and ”the law of love” (Rom. 13:8-10,Gal. 5:14, Mark 12:30-31, Luke 10:26-28) is also God’s law – his commandments. I wouldn’t say that it’s certain that Paul is absolutely referring to the law of Moses each time he used the term ”law”, but the context is a help.

      GBU

      Gilla

  10. Thank you so much for your article and your responses to those who commented here. Many will fall away and it seems a number of them have commented here as in the last days they will not put up with sound teaching.

    Thank you reading Gods word and believing God as Abraham did and as he asks us to do!

    Thank you for standing for the Lord!
    Jack Mitchell

    Gilla

    • Thanks brother
      Time is short and we live on this planet temporarily. It’s best to be prepared and to realize that Jesus warned christians from falling away.

      God bless you

      Gilla

  11. IF THE HOLY SPIRIT SEALS THE BELIEVER **FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION** .. THE BELIEVER IS ETERNALLY SEALED NO MATTER WHAT*… AND TO BELIEVE OTHERWISE SAYS THAT ONE THINKS SATAN IS STRONGER THAN GOD. WHICH IS NOT TRUE. NO ONE CAN DO ANYTHING TO MAKE CHRIST GO BACK ON HIS PROMISES. ONCE A BELIEVER IS SAVED.. HE OR SHE IS SAVED FOREVER. THATS WHY ITS CALLED *EVERLASTING-LIFE* & *ETERNAL-LIFE*.. IF ITS NOT ETERNAL THEN, THAT MAKES GOD A LIAR. IF A ”BELIEVER” IS TRUSTING IN HIS OR HER WORKS AND/OR CONDUCT IN ANY WAY… THEN, THAT BELIEVER IS NOT A BELIEVER ON JESUS CHRIST ALONE… AND IS SEEKING JUSTIFICATION BY WORKS. WE MUST BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST ALONE.. AND HIS FINISHED WORK UPON CALVARYS CROSS. THE BURDEN OF ONES SALVATION IS UPON CHRIST.. NOT THE BELIEVER. GOD BLESS.

    Gilla

    • Hello Missy

      Why are you screaming? Capital letters = Screaming + very difficult to read.

      And why didn’t you read the article? I explained in the article why it’s not possible to understand ”sealed” as a license to sin the way you do. If we are saved no matter what, then we have indeed a license to sin – which the Bible doesn’t teach. Are we saved even if we sin? If yes, doesn’t this mean that Satan was right all along for suggesting that sinning will not cause death?

      Can we not overcome sin here and now? Is Satan’s power stronger than God’s? Is it God’s responsibility to make sure we avoid sin, or is it our responsibility?

      Eternal life is obviously eternal, but we are not there yet. Only those Christians who will endure to the end will be saved and get eternal life.

      What does the Bible say about justification by works? Let’s see:

      Ja 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS a man is justified, and not by faith only.

      God bless

      Gilla

  12. if you look up the word seal it is the same word that is used in the old testament when God himself sealed the the door to the ark , and in the Greek the would sealed means safe, securied and its the type of sealed like on a birth certificate

    Gilla

    • Hi Cliff

      The words are not the same since they are in Greek and Hebrew respectively (you mention both). I did give examples of ”sealed” also in the OT, and it doesn’t necessarily mean something unbreakable. In the NT it can mean ”marked” as I wrote, and as born again Christians with the holy Spirit, we are indeed a peculiar people and marked.But sinning continues to cause spiritual death.

      GBU

      Gilla

      • One can also make the case that the word ”seal” does not automatically mean that something is unbreakable. Using a NT example, the seals in the book of Revelation are broken open indicating that they are not permanent seals. Mt 27:66 describes that the Romans sealed Jesus’ tomb; yet we know that the seal was broken upon Jesus’ resurrection. Similarly, a believer being sealed does not guarantee permanence as disobedience which grieves the Holy Spirit can result in spiritual death.

        Gilla

      • Exactly, Evan.
        Great comment. Since a seal doesn’t prevent us from sinning, it means that we can still choose to turn back to the world and risk spiritual death due to sin. We must still take the responsibility for our actions.

        Gilla

  13. Be careful bro! We do not save ourselves! We do not keep ourselves saved! We have or have not been sealed and there is nothing we can do to make or break a seal.
    This blog premise borders on blasphemy!

    Gilla

    • David, you’re teaching a license to sin. If there is nothing we can do to lose our salvation, we can afford to sin. Just like Satan wants us to.

      Choosing to stay faithful to Jesus is not ”saving ourselves”. Is it really blasphemy to teach that we must be faithful to our Lord?

      Satan’s teaching is ”Ye shalt not surely die”. He lied.

      Gilla

  14. David is right…we don’t save ourselves. Take the thief on the cross example…He lived a life full of sin and then was saved just before he died. Pretty sure that Salvation didn’t depend on him or his life that he lived.

    Gilla

    • Hey Scott
      Thanks for writing. No one has claimed that we can save ourselves. There are conditions for salvation, however, and even the thief on the cross confessed his sins, repented and trusted in Jesus. Those are things that WE must do. Jesus said: ”REPENT, for the kingdom of God is at hand”.

      Gilla

  15. The thief simply believed in Jesus Christ through faith and Eternal Life was given. Awesome thought to know that someone can be saved even though they have rejected God most of their life…That’s Grace!

    Gilla

    • Yes, the thief had faith in Jesus. Faith combined with sin won’t save, but if we confess our sins and repent then we will be cleansed from our sins and become holy. This is what happened with the thief.

      Amen, even if someone has rejected God all of his life, he can still be cleansed in a second.

      Gilla

  16. I have found that those who believe in eternal security rarely, if ever, change their position when debating this matter and end up agreeing to disagree. However when I propose this scenario to them and ask how they would answer they tend to avoid answering because it demonstrates in a practical manner that their position may be an untenable one. If they do answer, they respond by saying what someone else might do – not what they might do. Thus it is important to ask what the person – himself/herself – would personally do. The scenario is:
    If Jesus does not return before the great tribulation and you find yourself in the position of having to decide whether or not to take the mark of the beast, would YOU take the mark?
    As far as I know, they have 3 possible options:
    1. Yes, take the mark because I’m eternally secure. This response indicates that the person is at least consistent in their belief. However I’ve found no one responding in this manner because they know that this affirmative response directly contradicts the plain warning given in Rev 14:9-11.
    2. No, don’t take the mark because if I do it would demonstrate that I was never a believer to begin with. This option puts to rest the notion that those who continue to sin or no longer believe were never believers in the first place. The person knows that he/she is a genuine believer yet at the same time has to acknowledge the consequences of his/her losing salvation upon taking the mark. It puts them in a quandary because they would never consider themselves to be unbelievers who fall away from the faith. It demonstrates in a practical manner that they as regenerate believers can indeed lose their secure position if they take the mark. They can no longer use the excuse that persons who fall away from the faith never really believed.
    3. No, don’t take the mark because if I do I’m condemned to the lake of fire. If this option is taken, a person who adheres to eternal security acknowledges that the warning of taking the mark applies to him/her personally and the doctrine of eternal security is no longer a valid belief.

    A person who believes in the pre-trib rapture might protest and claim that this is not valid and is only a hypothetical example since the church is raptured before the great tribulation. However Rev 14:12 notes that the saints are still present at the time when the mark is presented. Whether this is the entire church or only tribulation saints is another matter for discussion. The main point is that v.12 commands the saints to persevere and be patient by keeping God’s commandments and their faith. Taking the mark would demonstrate that the saint has not kept the commandments and his/her faith.

    Gilla

    • Hey Evan
      That was a brilliant example of the Calvinists’ dilemma, including those who are only OSAS believers. The Bible is replete with warnings to believers so of course we are not exempt from any dangers if we don’t hold on to the vine tree. If believers could never fall away, the devil is wasting his time roaming around the earth trying to deceive us.

      Many blessings

      Gilla

  17. Your requirements would make the numerous Salvation through faith verses false and/or inaccurate (which we know is not the case). Another thing to note is that many people combine Salvation and living the spiritual life as one when in reality they are separate. Salvation is a position and spirituality is state.

    Gilla

    • Scott

      No, it’s still true that we are saved through faith (and not by still obeying the 613 Jewish laws) but faith without works is dead. One sin is enough to be a guilty sinner, and this means that we need someone with authority who can cleanse us from our sins.

      I fear you might have a gnostic outlook on life. We are saved IF we are holy, and we can only be holy if we are cleansed and live holy lives. If we again become filthy through sin, we are unholy and need to repent. If we mix faith and sin, we have not truly repented.

      Gilla

  18. My 2 cents worth. I think it is reasonable to say that it is essential to define faith in order to comprehend what it means to be saved through faith. No one here would argue that belief is necessary for saving faith as Jn 3:16 testifies to. While salvation is a position, it is a position that can be lost. Jn 3:16 specifically states that belief is necessary but the Greek word for belief in this verse is pisteuōn which is a present tense verb. Thus eternal life is only promised to those who are continuing to believe. Eternal life is not a position that is gained solely by a decision of belief made in the past but the present tense verb in the Greek indicates that salvation is obtained by whoever is ”believing” in Him. One must go on believing in order to have eternal life which indicates that saving faith is marked by perseverance in belief – which is a state of being. If a person for whatever reason ceases to believe, his/her salvific position is forfeited. Also in this verse the word ”have” is echē which is also a present tense verb. This verse more accurately translated should thus read: ”For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so that everyone who goes on believing in Him should not perish, but goes on having eternal life.” Thus salvation is a position but it is also a state. If a believer is no longer in a state of abiding in Christ by continuing to presently believe, according to Jn 3:16 he cannot be said to be presently having eternal life. Repentance and restoration to the faith is required.

    Gilla

    • Hey Evan

      You said (among other good stuff) ”If a believer is no longer in a state of abiding in Christ by continuing to presently believe, according to Jn 3:16 he cannot be said to be presently having eternal life. ” That is so true. Hope you have saved what you’ve written here so that you can easily copy and paste it to calvinists :). I pray people will read and understand the meaning of repentance and living a holy life. Time is short!

      GBU

      Gilla

    • Hey Scott

      As I wrote in the post: Based on the Greek text it can be translated ”by whom you were sealed FOR the day of redemption”.

      The text does not say ”sealed unconditionally all the way UNTIL the day of redemption no matter our conduct”. There is nothing that suggests that a seal can absolutely not be tampered with! When someone places a seal on something – like the one in the picture here to the left – he doesn’t do this with the idea that no one can remove the seal but to show a unique mark and/or ownership of something. The aim, and the sincere hope, might very well be to see the seal untouched until there is a proper time to remove it, but there is no guarantee that it will remain as it is until that day.

      GBU

      Gilla

    • Sure, we can absolutely destroy our seal. Examples:

      1 Tim. 1:19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, 20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

      2 Pet. 3:as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

      Gilla

  19. Hi Annika – in discussing these matters with Calvinists, I’ve found that people tend to not change their minds once they think they’ve learned something despite scriptural evidence to the contrary. For some reason instead of considering the possibility that one might be incorrect in their particular theology and open to correction and change (since we’re all fallible creatures), they instead remain intractable – no matter what. I can empathize with this as my seminary professors were all Reformed in their theology so I took it for granted that what they taught me was scripturally accurate. Only later on, after years of study on my own, did I come to my own conclusion that what I was taught was not reflective of what the scriptures actually teach. My professors were sincere men of God but sincerely wrong. I don’t blame them as I think Satan has blinded the church from teaching spiritual truth so as to continue deceiving the flock. Once a paradigm is established it is difficult to take off the blinders as one does not even realize that they are on! It literally took me several years to unlearn what I thought I had already correctly learned which is more difficult than learning doctrine correctly the first time around. Although I don’t regret attending seminary, I could have saved a lot of money and personal sacrifice if I had not done so. 🙂 In the end, the Holy Spirit is the best teacher and I am thankful that He has had much patience with me.

    In response to Scott In terms of tampering with God’s seal, I think Paul makes it clear that the seal of God is only as good as long as believers remain obedient:
    ”But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this SEAL: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord DEPART FROM INEQUITY” (2 Tim 2:19).
    Being sealed is contingent upon believers not tampering with the seal by not engaging in inequity. Believers who instead choose to engage in habitual sin tamper and break God’s seal.

    Gilla

    • Evan,

      I really don’t understand what it is in Calvinism that makes it so appealing to people.

      I regret to hear that you’ve gone to a ”reformed” seminary (or at least where the professors happened to be reformed). It actually makes sense to attend reformed Bible school if the aim is to learn how to highlight the most ”important” verses and use them as a filter, read verses in a vacuum, twist scriptures, ignore certain verses, etc. In order to get the calvinistic picture, you would actually need to work pretty hard to make the Bible conform to it and this is something that a reformed seminary can help us with. But as you say, afterwards it will take quite some time to unlearn all that calvinistic stuff to get back to the plain teaching of the Bible.

      It’s good to know that there are people who have escaped Calvinism, and just this week I read a nice testimony from Leighton Flowers. I include it here:
      ————————–

      . Read this encouraging note I received today from yet another former Calvinistic pastor:

      Dr. Flowers,

      I have a bit of a bone to pick with you. You have put me in quite a quandary. I am a long time pastor at a ”Calvinistic” Baptist church and I have been a Calvinist most of my life. About a year ago one of my church members, who is close with my wife, kept hounding her to listen to your podcast until finally she did. After a few months of listening to you she became thoroughly convinced that Calvinism was wrong. She then began insisting that I listen to your podcast with her. I refused. I told her you were deceiving her and that she should stop listening to you. We had many fights about this until finally she just stopped talking about it (which I found out later was advice you gave her).

      I had all but forgotten about it until my birthday came around. She gave me several gifts, one of which was your book, The Potter’s Promise. She promised me that if I would read your book with an open mind then she would never bring this issue up again. I reluctantly agreed just to shut her up.

      I finished reading your book last week which led me to binge on your podcast over the last 6 days. Wow. You have completely messed up my world! I cannot believe that I am even writing you this letter right now. I would have never dreamed that your book would have convinced me to recant Calvinism, but it has. I cannot believe I have not seen this before. I mean I have questioned some of the typical issues people have against Calvinism but I have always been quite certain the TULIP Soteriology was correct. I am even more certain now that it isn’t!

      So, what am I supposed to do now? Resign my church? Recant publicly? Go back and try to fix everyone I misguided over the 16 years of my preaching ministry? See how you’ve put me in quite a quandary? Don’t get me wrong, I’m eternally grateful for helping me see this error, but I am quite perplexed as to what to do now. It’s like I’m seeing the Bible in a whole new light and I so badly want to start teaching my fellowship what I’ve been learning but, on the other hand, I don’t want to split the church or cause division among the brethren.

      So, I guess I’m writing you for two reasons. One to thank you for your work and influence in our lives and also to ask you your advice as to how I should proceed from here? Is this something you have seen before? What have others in my situation done and could you even point me to them so I can talk about it with a brother who has been through this?

      Thank you for your time and prayers!

      (It was requested that I not share his name)
      —————————————–

      Gilla

  20. Cognitive dissonance is a great hurdle to overcome which prevents many people from examining their own cherished beliefs. Your blog is one of the few I’ve come across which accurately describes the gospel message and what salvation entails. May God continue to bless your endeavors.

    Gilla

  21. Quote: ”The moment a person is born again that person is already glorified in God’s eyes! Rom 8:30.”
    That verse is often cited by those who adhere to eternal security citing what appears to be an unbreakable chain of justification/salvation. Those who God predestined, he called, he justified and he also glorified – all in the past tense – so it seems like a ”done deal.” This golden chain of salvation at first glance appears to support the belief that those whom the Father predestined/chose will in fact be glorified – no exceptions. However if it can be demonstrated that any of the ”links” in this chain of salvation can be broken, then salvation is not so secure after all – even for the elect. Note the word called/kaleo in v.30. It is the same Greek word found in Gal 1:6. In this verse Paul marvels at the fact that some Galatians despite being ”kaleo” are deserting Christ and turning to follow another gospel. If kaleo/called refers to the elect in Rom 8:30 then it also refers to the elect in Gal 1:6. These Galatians who were called by grace, were regenerate believers who were apostatizing from the faith and following another gospel. One cannot desert Christ unless one was first loyal to Christ. One cannot turn to follow another gospel unless one was first followed the true gospel. Despite being called by the Father – these Galatians did not persevere and instead fell away. Therefore the linear chain of progression leading to salvation in Rom 8:30 does not by Paul’s own witness in Gal 1:6 demonstrate any assurance of glorification.

    Gilla

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