The sinful nature deriving from Gnosticism
Sin is what separates us from God and that is because of the choice on our part to break his law. Being conceived or born are certainly not offensive to God so such things could not possibly be a cause for separation from God. Children are not born in sin!
There is no “sinful nature” in sight when reading the Bible. We are “wonderfully made” according to the Bible, and created in God’s image. A sinful nature would provide us with an excellent excuse for our sin (“my sinful nature made me do it ...”) but in reality we have no excuse for breaking the commandment of God since we are made fully capable of being faithful to God.
1 John 3::4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.
Is. 59:2 But YOUR INIQUITIES have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Micah 3:4 Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that KNOWETH to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Jas. 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of HIS OWN LUST, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
The fall of Adam has certainly affected all of us since we cannot reach the tree of life due to him, but never due to having inherited his or anyone else’s sin. Adam was the first to sin (along with Eve) so it is a good description to say that sin entered into the world through him, but note that it is DEATH (not “sin”) that passed upon all men, and note also the reason for this: “FOR that all have sinned”. Not because Adam sinned and we inherited his transgression through the genes.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
Again, the Bible never claims that a conception or birth separate us from God. Coming into this world is hardly something we can plan ourselves and it is never considered offensive to God. Augustine made the sinful nature idea popular in church and Luther and Calvin continued to spread this gnostic idea.
Jesus was tempted like all of us but without sin (he successfully stood against sin) and the Bible does not claim that he had an advantage over us in any way. If we were all born with a sinful nature (which makes us sin) and not Jesus, this would be a HUGE advantage.
Who is righteous? Do not let anyone deceive you about this.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Bjorkbloggen 
“Jesus frestades som vi alla men utan synd (han stod framgångsrikt emot synden) och Bibeln hävdar inte att han hade en fördel över oss på något sätt. Om vi alla föddes med en syndig natur (som får oss att synda) och inte Jesus, skulle detta vara en STOR fördel. ”
Det finns en extremt stor skillnad på Jesus och alla män på den här jorden, Jesus far är Gud(syndfri och rättfärdig) vi andra har Adam(syndare)som far och arv. Jesus föddes från en bruten arvskedja.
Fysiologiskt finns det inget av moderns blod som någonsin blir en del av den lilla bebisen. Blodet kommer från fadern.
Förbannelsens linje kommer genom blodet – genom fadern. Så varje människa, som är en född syndare, är det på grund av det faktum att han har ärvt den genom sin far, inte genom sin mor, även om hon är lika mycket en syndare som pappa är.
Det är det som är hela grejen, att Jesus har Gud som fader därför är han syndfri
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Hej Nick!
En vanlig lära men Bibeln lär dock inte ut att synd är något som finns i vårt DNA genom befruktelsen utan snarare handlar det om att medvetet bryta mot Guds bud. Aborterade foster är inga syndare. Bibeln lär heller inte ut att Jesus åker gräddfil genom att slippa en slags ond natur som får oss att synda som alla andra drabbas av och faktiskt också behändigt kan skylla på. Läran om arvsynden finns inte i Bibeln.
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Besides the death that God promised to Adam and Eve and their seed, we have numerous verses. The Bible suggests that humans are born sinful. These verses include and are likely not limited to:
Psalms 51:5 – “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”
Ecclesiastes 7:20 – “For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.”
Psalms 58:3 – “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”
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I have posts about each of those Calvinistic proof texts.
Psalms 51 is about David’s mother and it could very well be that she sinned when she conceived her son. Does this poetic text say that we are all sinners by conception? So long before we even get a heart, we are sinners?
Psalms 58 talks about babies talking right after birth. Do you believe this as well?
Eccl. 7:20 has a context as well. Read the article about this proof text verse. Can be found on my Blog. The text also speaks about just people, and the Bible talks about loads of people who are defined righteous.
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I could cut and paste probably 20 proof texts on this matter easily, but I don’t think it will do much good. You seem to be deep into the idea that you can please God in some way. This is not the gospel. The gospel is that he was pleased by His son, whom we trust in as Christians.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I see that you are fluent in multiple languages, but in the English, we use the word “can” purposefully. Unfortunately, culture has diminished its meaning. “Can” means to have the ability. “May” is asking permission. The Bible uses the word “can” all over the place to reference our inability. See in this verse (countless others), that the natural man, those born of man and woman are unable to know God. This is why we believe we must be reborn, have our eyes opened, have a new heart, be brought from darkness to light, be made alive, be found, etc. It is a work of God that we come to faith.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
“wrought” means to bring about. John 3, the wind blowing, the spirit moving, people believing and having eternal life, is “wrought” by God.
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I can almost assure you that all the famous cut and paste from Calvinists are covered on my Blog. Those you’ve tried so far have been covered at least.
Again, in Romans 1 we have an example of people acting against their nature. This verse and similar won’t go away.
We are told in the Bible to avoid sin, but I’m afraid your teaching is that we are not able to be faithful to Jesus, and that sinning is totally natural also for Christians.
If we are unable to seek and find God, then only God must be blamed for this. Acts 17, however, explains that we are all requested to seek him even though he isn’t far away from any of us. All has been given the light so if someone doesn’t come to the light, it’s this person’s fault because he/she had the opportunity but declined.
The Bible doesn’t say that we are saved by trusting the son. Who will be saved?
Hebr. 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him.
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Very little doubt that we’ll be judged by what we did. That leads to one place. Having your name in the book of life is the only way we experience heaven though:
Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
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It’s always a good idea to strive to get our name in the book of life, and also to avoid our names being removed from it.
If God refuses to make people seek him and find him, people will go to hell as victims in the hands of a wicked God.
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Titus 2:11 tells us that grace brings salvation and training. First, salvation to all men. Which men are being saved? All of them?! Well, all has a definition here. Every man that is old (verse 2), everyone woman who is old (verse 3), even young women (verse 4), and yes even slaves and masters (verse 10). All here is defined by every person. There is no other way in which anyone can be saved. If you take “all” is really ALL, then you are a universalist and definitely not of the teaching of our Lord Jesus.
Yes, we are absolutely being “trained” for this things on Earth, the present age! That’s exactly what I said. 1 John 1:8 – “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” This verse goes from conception to death.
Luke 18: 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
I don’t think Jesus is teaching the tax collector to finish his humbiling and humiliation to turn around and be like the Pharisee…
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We can read in Titus 2:11-12 that the salvation opportunity is given to ALL men, not just a few men as calvinists believe. We can further read that the grace of God teaches the same (all of us) to avoid sin in this present world. It doesn’t say that all men will adhere to this teaching, but it certainly doesn’t say that no on will! This mean that we can be totally faithful to Jesus because we have been given the means to do so.
You further continue on the path with the well-known Calvinistic proof texts which I’ve told you can be found on my blog, and if you read it you will see that the verses before and after v. 8 are not as popular. For example:
1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth
So if someone still sins and suggests that he is still a Christian, he is lying because you can’t serve two masters and still be saved.
Or do you interpret that passage to say that we sin around the clock and that there is not one minute each day when we don’t sin?
The problem with the Pharisees was not that they were obeying God’s commandments too much. Their problem was that they were hypocrites and that they were more concerned abuot their outward appearence than their inward. Jesus rebuked them and also said that unless we do better than the pharisees when it comes to being righteous, we won’t enter heaven.
When you read the below, which side to you take? Perhaps the person who teaches that there is no way we can live free of sin? Notice again that unless we show more righteousness than the pharisees, we are doomed.
Matt. 5: 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
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Hello! Idk if my initial comment was posted but I think I’ll repost it here:
I feel homosexual attractions, does that mean it was my choice to feel this way and it was not some “malfunction” in my flesh like my flesh was rlly NATURALLY made to be attracted to the same sex? God bless. I want to become hetero but I still feel homo attractions then thoughts come to my mind saying “is it fair for God to punish me if i have a homo partner since my flesh NATURALLY feels this way?” idk if that made sense but i hope i did…
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Just a follow-up on my mssg about homosexuality, I was attracted to men ever since I was a kid. IDK when I was a kid i dont know much abt God and the Bible.. I just got attracted to men and i didnt know it was a sin when I was a kid. Like I felt that I was born to feel those homo attractions if u get what i mean.
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Hi Clyde,
Many others disagree with Bjork, including myself. Jesus’ teaching on sin and James pushes us to the depravity of our nature. Not only is it a sin to commit adultery with a man, it is sinful to look on him in lust. Being angry with someone is like murder. James taught us if we know what we are supposed to do and don’t do it, it’s a sin. See, the understanding of our depraved nature between Bjork and myself are much different. I believe you were born this way and it will be a battle you likely face your entire earthly/fleshly life. You will be more sanctified as you fight this battle as I do with my own struggles. If you’re interested, I’d be happy to include Bible references or discuss with you more.
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The Bible doesn’t say that we have a deprived nature. If we did, we would have an excellent excuse for our sin. See my posts about all the Calvinistic proof texts.
It’s a sin to look at a woman TO lust for her, which is about the intention and on the person’s heart. What he/she does to not seek tempting situations. It’s not a sin to find the opposing sex attractive because that is how we were created.
The Bible doesn’t say that we will sin less and less and that we are doomed to sin. The Bible promises that we can stop sinning here and now (Titus 2:11-12) and that we can be totally faithful to Jesus.
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Concerning Titus 2:11-12 highlight:
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
Notice the word here in verse 11 is that grace brings salvation for all people. It is the only way anyone will be saved. Not by their works. Your idea of perfection on earth is dismantled in verse 12 as we see “training us” to renounce. Training implies an act of practice that moves towards perfection, not a reach of perfection. That is sanctification. We are moving towards God more and more in holiness; we are “waiting” for our blessed hope, when he returns. What will this return bring? It will bring about a redemption from “all lawlessness” and redeem a people who are “zealous” for good works. Notice the word here “zealous” implies people who have a strong desire for good works. Not those who are perfect.
Thanks for sharing Titus. This is an excellent confirmation of our hope through grace alone.
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If grace and the ability to be saved have been given to all people, then all people can be saved but you are teaching that God only selects some people who he provides this gift.
In Titus we can see that we are being provided grace so that we can avoid sin here and now (we don’t have to wait until we die and get new bodies …) and yet you seem to teach that we are unable to avoid sinning. It says quite clearly “in the present age”.
I don’t know where you get the idea that Titus says that the teaching will always be unsuccessful.
It’s not a sin to avoid sinning. The law that we often read about is the Jewish law (over 600 in total) and it’s true that we no longer live by those laws. Still, we certainly don’t live in lawlessness with no more laws to obey. If we have no laws to obey the many warnings in the Bible are in vain.
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I always try to find unity between my Christian brothers as much as possible. However, this latest comment draws grave concern. It sounds very much like second grace teachings, that men saved by God will and can become sinless on Earth and be acceptable by God by their actions. This is not the gospel. We are very much depraved from birth and we cannot please God by our own actions, thoughts, and deeds, generally according to the law.
Ecclesiastes 7:20
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
Genesis 6:5
Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Romans 3:9-19
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
read more.
All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
“Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
“Their feet are swift to shed blood,
Destruction and misery are in their paths,
And the path of peace they have not known.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
Romans 7 is the battle of this flesh and Spirit within a believer. As long as we have flesh, we will battle.
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Sounds like the scariest thing is the idea that we can and should be totally faithful to God as in being righteous. Shouldn’t we be more alarmed by the teaching that sinning is totally natural and nothing we can successfully avoid?
Of course we are acceptable or not by our actions. A branch in the vine can be cut off due to lack of fruit. Examples:
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in DEED and in truth.19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.—24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Yes in the old days, just before the flood, the wickedness was truly everywhere, except for Noah. Bad choice.
I’ve already mentioned Eccl. 7:20 (I’ve written a blog post about it) and in the same context we can find examples of righteous deeds.
The famous Rom. 7 should be read together with Rom. 6 and Rom. 8, and then we will realize that Paul is certainly not talking about a normal Christian life in Rom. 7. Contrary to Satan, Paul is teaching that sinning leads to death. Paul is referring to a couple of psalms in Rom. 3, and in those psalms we can again read about righteous people.
In Galatians we have a wonderful promise, that if we are lead by the Spirit we don’t sin:
Gal. 516 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
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I also want to make a short comment that you contradict yourself. You say it is not a sin to look at someone of the opposite sex and they are attractive. Thus, implying that the doing this to someone of the same sex is. This is not what you told the person struggling with their sinful homosexual desires on a separate post. Perhaps I misunderstand you here and there?
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<Thus, implying that the doing this to someone of the same sex is.
No I'm not implying this at all so yes you misunderstand. Jesus is only referencing a man looking at a woman and he isn't implying that other variations are acceptable. I was just giving an example.
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Hello Clyde.
No, I don’t believe it’s necessarily a sin to feel such attractions, or to be tempted to have an affair, to drink alcohol, or to hit someone, etc. Temptations are not sins. The key issue is how a person handles his feelings and emotions, which are partly affected by genes, culture, religion, upbringing, etc. A person can have certain feelings against his/her will, but it’s also a risk that certain feelings are even deepened if the person seeks to be tempted. Something isn’t right just because “I feel this way” because with that logic also pedophilia must be deemed right. God knows our battles but he also knows what we do to avoid being tempted or acting out on feelings which are not on par with his creation. It’s of course uphill for a person who feels attraction to his own gender (feelings which a person did not ask to have) , but it’s also uphill for people who are chronically sick/disabled, or very poor, lonely, or constantly bullied, not able to get children, etc. Life isn’t fair, but fortunately life is short and we can look forward to a permanent life ahead of us. I can also tell you that there are homosexuals who have been converted into becoming heterosexuals through an act of God, but being healed in this way is often connected to the person’s own will to even be converted. Some people might not be interested in letting go with their feelings and temptations.
God loves all his people including those who battle with homosexual feelings. He knows that different people have different weak sides to battle. For some people alcohol is a huge problem, and for others not. Temptations are not sins, and even Jesus Christ was tempted (without giving into sin).
“No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.” 1 Cor. 10:13
The question is if we want to be led by the holy Spirit and away from temptations and sins.
I can recommend Torben Sondergaards films about being a Christian in general, because they are very refreshing.
Blessings
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Thanks for your reply. May I know if I you have received my message on Facebook? I want to ask some questions regarding Christianity but I find contacting you through Messenger would be more convenient.
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Hey Clyde
No I haven’t received any FB messages from you as far as I know. My name is also rather common. My contact information (email) can be found under “About me”.
Blessings
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Hej Annika!
Om vi inte har synden i oss från födslen, hur kan det då komma sig att små barn ex har vredesutbrått, gör saker de vet att de inte får göra, o s v?
Jag tror synden bor i människan och att synden verkar fram synderna vi begår.
Björn
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Hej Björn! Bebisar är skapta av Gud att kunna kommunicera genom att skrika. Då får föräldrarna signaler om barnets behov. Alla barn har inte vredesutbrott men ibland kan högljudda protester vara motiverade. När barn växer upp lär de sig hur man hanterar önskemål och kommunikation.
Att synda är något man gör. Man utövar alltså en “synd”. Om synd vore något som bodde i oss utan vår medverkan så skulle vi ha en ypperlig ursäkt för vår synd men sanningen är att vi inte har några bra ursäkter. Dessutom skulleJesus ha åkt gräddfil , för han hade förstås ingen sådan inbyggd synd. Men Jesus hade samma sorts kött som oss och genomled samma sorts frestelser.
MVH
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I’ll also add that being angry isn’t a sin. Maybe the baby has a reason to scream or cry? He\she could be hungry, scared, uncomfortable. Babies are born into a cursed world, and there are needs they have that need to be met for them.
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Exactly, Brandon! Being angry isn’t a sin but loads of Christians get the impression that it is and therefore believe that avoiding sin is absolutely impossible. Sinning without a cause is a sin on the other hand.
God created babies with the ability to scream/cry in order to communicate that it has certain needs.
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Are we reading the same Bible?
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